Banter Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood?

[Wosh]

Mainly here so we can enjoy the LOLs afterwards at the end of 2023, but also an interesting discussion point.

I’m in genuine two minds and can’t call it, but who do you see finishing higher in 2023?

Who is positioned better from a list/team perspective?

Let the games begin…

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[CarmenSandiego]

It aint a subjective matter, Carlton finished 5th in 2023.

Why a few Baggers pretend otherwise is baffling.

And GWS 7th but were obviously the 3rd best team in the comp?

 

[carlton_99]

It aint a subjective matter, Carlton finished 5th in 2023.

Why a few Baggers pretend otherwise is baffling.

If it was simply an objective matter of just using the ladder then the draft order would be based on that don't you think?

 

[Cyclops]

Carlton were unexpectedly good last year and farted higher than their arses to make a prelim: that sort of experience is golden ( as we showed in 2022, albeit from inside the 4).

The call about talent is a good one: Blues and Giants ooze talent, but superior coaching and fitness saw Pies and Lions prevail. That hot start in the Carlton Lions prelim was literally Carltons only possible route to victory. It was a bit like us in the 2018 GF, the five goal lead early meant they were sort of at level pegging from then.

Was it a Swans supporter? I don’t recall but this story used to get mentioned a lot when I was younger. But I’ve lost a few brain cells since then.

I've prolly lost more FWIW but I think it was a Collingwood supporter (in a bread van?) and he was so remorseful he visited Pratt in hospital and bought him a pack of smokes to say sorry.

Pratt told the story well. His best quote though was "who is the best player to ever pull on a boot? I see him in the mirror every morning when I shave".

 

[doppleganger]

And GWS 7th but were obviously the 3rd best team in the comp?

Correct GWS were 7th.

In finals, they were the 3rd best performed team.

It aint that hard.

 

[Fadge]

Correct GWS were 7th.

In finals, they were the 3rd best performed team.

It aint that hard.

Jeepers.

Can you imagine chatting to these guys about how difficult it is to win a flag from outside the top 4?

Us: 'Bulldogs have been the only team under the current finals system to win the premiership from outside the top 4....'

Them: 'But the Bulldogs finished first because they were the Premiers...'

Us: 'Can I have another beer?'

 

[doppleganger]

If it was simply an objective matter of just using the ladder then the draft order would be based on that don't you think?

It is an objective matter of simply using the ladder.

That is what the ladder is for.

In 2016, Western Bulldogs finished 7th and then went on a run to become the first team to be premiers after finishing 7th.

There is no updated 2016 ladder that puts the Western Bulldogs in 1st.

 

[doppleganger]

Can you imagine chatting to these guys about how difficult it is to win a flag from outside the top 4?

The position seems to be the premier is always 1st in some new ladder that the AFL publishes after finals.

 

[carlton_99]

It is an objective matter of simply using the ladder.

That is what the ladder is for.

In 2016, Western Bulldogs finished 7th and then went on a run to become the first team to be premiers after finishing 7th.

There is no updated 2016 ladder that puts the Western Bulldogs in 1st.

The draft order is based on the performances of teams in that season. The AFL has chosen to use final performances to inform the order of the top 8. So clearly they think differently to you. As such, it is subjective.

 

[manicpie]

Jeepers.

Can you imagine chatting to these guys about how difficult it is to win a flag from outside the top 4?

Us: 'Bulldogs have been the only team under the current finals system to win the premiership from outside the top 4....'

Them: 'But the Bulldogs finished first because they were the Premiers...'

Us: 'Can I have another beer?'

We all need to keep it civil mate. This is a fun thread. We'll probably never agree with Carlton supporters and vice versa. If we get too serious, the thread suffers. It's all good

 

[doppleganger]

The draft order is based on the performances of teams in that season. The AFL has chosen to use final performances to inform the order of the top 8. So clearly they think differently to you. As such, it is subjective.

LoL.

Draft order is not a ladder.

But yes, congratulations on Carlton getting their highest 21st century draft order spot in 2023.

 

[carlton_99]

LoL.

Draft order is not a ladder.

But yes, congratulations on Carlton getting their highest 21st century draft order spot in 2023.

The AFL for equalisation purposes rank every team from 1-18 and give the worst team the number 1 pick and the best team the last pick in the first round. So clearly the AFL think the home and away ladder is not the way to rank teams in any given season. You have every right to disagree but don't call people deluded for disagreeing with you when even the AFL clearly see it differently.

 

[doppleganger]

The AFL for equalisation purposes rank every team from 1-18 and give the worst team the number 1 pick and the best team the last pick in the first round. So clearly the AFL think the home and away ladder is not the way to rank teams in any given season. You have every right to disagree but don't call people deluded for disagreeing with you when even the AFL clearly see it differently.

AFL can fecking change how they come up with the draft order on a whim.

The ladder is the ladder.

Carlton aint managed a top 4 finish in the 21st century. Tis Carlton and Gold Coast who are the only teams who havent played in a Qualifying Final in the 21st century.

But yes in 2023, Carlton were given a later draft spot than Melbourne.

 

[Worm4]

Tis Carlton and Gold Coast who are the only teams who havent played in a Qualifying Final in the 21st century.

What week is the qualifying finals played ?

 

[Corn Cobbers]

What week is the qualifying finals played ?

In the first week, between the top 4 sides

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mr Meow]

In the first week, between the top 4 sides

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

This is really useful info.

I'm gonna write it down somewhere for next time.

-Carlton supporter

 

[doppleganger]

In the first week, between the top 4 sides

Poor Buggers, legit dont think they know how finals work.

Back when Carlton were last a decent team, way back in the 20th century all week 1 finals were called qualifying finals when it was 1v8, 2v7 etc.

 

[Worm4]

Poor Buggers, legit dont think they know how finals work.

Back when Carlton were last a decent team, way back in the 20th century all week 1 finals were called qualifying finals when it was 1v8, 2v7 etc.

Can't even joke around here sometimes. Sorry, must have gone over your head that one

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

What the feck does 1958 have to do with the modern era?

A nice clean starting point for the modern era is the start of the 21st century.

That was when most of the growing pains and transition from suburban VFL football to the expanded AFL comp was completed. 16 teams were established and Docklands was built.

We are into our 24th season of the modern era.

The strongest teams have been - Geelong and Hawthorn and then Brisbane. Sydney and Collingwood have played in most GFs (6) and both have a 2-4 record.

The worst team has been Carlton and it aint even close, 5 wooden spoons and yet to have a top4 finish after H&A let alone even lool like making a GF.

Yet the Baggers keep wanting everyone to just focus on the 1970/80s when they used to be good. Just like Melbourne were good in the 1950/60s, neither have any relevance to the modern era.

At least Melbourne have lifted themselves off the bottom and won a flag in the modern era.

As has already been pointed out the professional era starts from 1987 onwards, and in that period of time you only have one more flag than us.

1987 was the first season after the draft was introduced i believe, and it was the year the competition went national as well.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

They were but I also believe a lot of their Grand Final opponents worked at CUB which was run by Collingwood heavyweights.

Before Grand Finals Collingwood players would get time off and the opposition would get extra shifts.

I also recall a story about Bob Pratt (Swans Full Forward) being hit by a truck before the Grand Final and not being able to play, which essentially gifted Collingwood the match.

Lots of dodgy stuff going on back in those days.

They also bribed some of our players to play dead in the 1910 grand final.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

The AFL for equalisation purposes rank every team from 1-18 and give the worst team the number 1 pick and the best team the last pick in the first round. So clearly the AFL think the home and away ladder is not the way to rank teams in any given season. You have every right to disagree but don't call people deluded for disagreeing with you when even the AFL clearly see it differently.

Exactly. It’s really not rocket science, we’re just dealing with absolute toothless peanuts here.

if finals position were irrelevant it’d be ignored by the AFL when determining the fairness of the draft order.

I might give them a buzz, tell them gangerdopppble and fudge think they’ve got it all wrong.

 

[Fadge]

Total games won in 2023 after completion of the finals series:
21 Collingwood
19 Brisbane
17 Port Adelaide
16 Melbourne
15 Carlton, GWS
13 St Kilda
12 Sydney

Hmmmmm....

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Total games won in 2023 after completion of the finals series:
21 Collingwood
19 Brisbane
17 Port Adelaide
16 Melbourne
15 Carlton, GWS
13 St Kilda
12 Sydney

Hmmmmm....

Why didn’t you campaign for us to get a better pick then?

 

[Fadge]

Why didn’t you campaign for us to get a better pick then?

I feel sorry for the elite talent regularly being Carltonised.

Give the poor kids a chance of success.

 

[doppleganger]

Can't even joke around here sometimes. Sorry, must have gone over your head that one

Hopefully not hearing those crickets again

 

[Robertio]

They aint facts, they are just your incorrect assumptions carrying through.

Draft order takes into account performance in finals, the ladder doesnt.


Even if using finals, GWS had better results and came closer to beating the minor premier and eventual premier in a PF.

So if looking for who was the 3rd best team in 2023 finals, GWS clearly the answer.

Can't see GWS in the record books mate but you're entitled to your opinion.