Traded Jake Carlisle [traded w/ #23 and #44 for #5, #24 and Craig Bird]

[Bunk Moreland]

You are punch drunk Bunk .
efc hold zero power here .
Take whatever the saints toss you or lose him for nothing .
You would have been better off if Carlisle nominated the Blues ...

Why are you still here?

 

[RoundCubic]

We offered him a three year deal you offered him five and $100k more That was the difference.

but it was 4 years

 

[pinot]

This is actually true. If he nominated the blues you would atleast have the club with the bigger cap space still chasing him. You could at least use that as leverage

If he nominated Carlton Carlisle would be seen as the bad guy as Carlton would refuse to deal with Dodoro. But you guys on the other hand having a red hot dip. Got get 'em tiger.

 

[RoundCubic]

You are commenting on something you know nothing about.

It was a 4 year deal. In any case Carlton cannot go toe to toe in a bidding war with St Kilda our cap has been reported on as being the healthiest in the league.

700+k is freed up just by using the veterans list. We also are paying 95% and qualify for the 105%

This is why you havent matched. Each time you do we just up the offer by 100k

Carlton have turned their attention to other targets like aish etc

Also why Farren Ray was dropped he was payed way too much just so we reached our cap

 

[WolfLikeMe]

Well I wonder if you can be smart & walk away from negotiations with Dodoro in the belief you will get him PSD. Oh god please let this be a reality.

I hope it goes to the PSD too

 

[WolfLikeMe]

And why would there be any evidence?

Carlton don't have to show their hand and would be foolish to do so. Who knows who else will be in the PSD.

Exactly. Who knows. Until you have a candidate there is no leverage...

 

[Donakebab]

We don't care. If it is Carlisle or Pick 5, most Saints supporters want pick 5. KPDs are not that difficult, gun mids are. Pick 5 likely gets us the 2nd or 3rd best mid in the draft.

It's the exact opposite.

 

[boncer34]

Kudos to you sir .
It's a brave effort to raise a smile with your club in this position ...

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Also why Farren Ray was dropped he was payed way too much just so we reached our cap

...huh?

 

[RoundCubic]

Well I wonder if you can be smart & walk away from negotiations with Dodoro in the belief you will get him PSD. Oh god please let this be a reality.

I hope so too but we were already smart enough not to try and match the Boyd deal

 

[RoundCubic]

...huh?

Farren Ray I think was on around 400k partly because we have to pay 95% of the cap each year that's why he is looking else where and no new contract has been organised we only offered him 1 year and much lower pay

 

[aussierulesrules]

pick 5 actually will get you the 5th or 6th best mid, but yeh.

200cm KPP are most definitely harder to find than good mids. Good KPP go in top 10.

Have they usually played 6 years of their careers already (meaning that they might only have 8-10 left) and do they usually come with ongoing knee tendonitis?

 

[Red Bull]

Why are you still here?

Why are you ?
It's every chance your club will net the same as mine from this affair ... Nothing !!

 

[pinot]

This is why the transfer market is fairer. At least clubs are compensated with money via transfer fees for developing a player... possibility Essendon will get nothing and don't think its fair at all. Transfer market however - you will get something for sure.... but with Draft and PSD etc its all bullshit for clubs.

 

[WolfLikeMe]

This is why the transfer market is fairer. At least clubs are compensated with money via transfer fees for developing a player... possibility Essendon will get nothing and don't think its fair at all. Transfer market however - you will get something for sure.... but with Draft and PSD etc its all bullshit for clubs.

Hey we have let plenty of players go to set up our cap like this

SOS will get your mob into a similar position it will just take time

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Why are you so confident? If the negotiations got to that point, Essendon would re-draft him to prevent you from getting him. No way he would get past Carlton pick 1 anyway. You have no power if it gets to PSD yet you think you do. No, you don't have pick 1 this year.

If your really believe that would happen, then your judgement about the entire situation is likely to be completely wrong.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yet you argued that it was significant.

Imo WADA does not afford you a discount. You know about it and if it concerns you too much don't take him.
It's like going to a car yard and checking out a car then asking for discount because you don't like the paint colour.

If it was to go to arbitration and WADA was bought up as part of the reason why he wasn't worth what Essendon are asking, imo it wouldn't be a valid argument.

We know about it. And i'm sure there is a clause in his contract covering it. OK thats the money taken care of.
Step 2 , make sure we don't give up too much in trade.

 

[aussierulesrules]

So saints fans wouldnt accept pick 23 and Carlisle for Pick 5?

Didnt you pick guys like Goddard and Dunstan up with picks in a similar range?

We got Dunstan with pick 18 (effectively pick 20) and Goddard with pick 21. Pick 23 this year is likely to be pick 27 or so by the time FA compo picks and so-on are handed out and it would be a stretch to expect those types to slide that far this year.

The thing with our list rebuild is that we've stated many times that we want to rebuild through the draft and we've had a lot of picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds in the past few years, but only the two picks in the top 10 (actually only two picks in the top 17) and that's not enough if we want to be able to compete down the track with the squads that teams like GWS and WB have put together. About the last thing we need is more picks in the 2nd or third round.

I think we believe we need at least one more really high pick to get some more elite young talent in and it's my understanding that we fully intend to use pick 5 in this year's draft for exactly that purpose.

Getting Carlisle would be extremely handy and of course we're keen, but I'm not sure we're so keen that we're prepared to forgo our plan to build mainly through the draft and to bring in as much elite young talent as we can that way. It's not like we're planning on winning next year's flag and that Carlisle is the last chance we'll have to complete our 2016 premiership puzzle. There will be more opportunities to get Carlisle/Henderson types going forward, especially if we still have a s**t-tonne of cap space free, but there will hopefully be a lot less opportunities for us to have a pick as high as 5 in any of the upcoming drafts. That's probably why we're so reluctant/unwiling to part with it.

Carlisle was pick 23 from memory. His value has greatly increased since that day. He has 8-10 years potentially in him. As dodoro said no one else in the comp could take 19 marks one week then kick 8 goals the following week?

That's not what he said I don't believe, as far as I'm aware he said that no-one else who is available this trade period has done those things. (I'd argue that Henderson has overall performed at least as well, if not better though and yet his trade value seems to have plummeted this past couple of months after a drop in output, while Carlisle's doesn't seem to have, despite two poor years ).

Only problem with what Dodoro said though is that Carlisle did those things up forward, but supposedly doesn't want to play there at his next club. So we're not getting someone who is likely to be having those sorts of games up forward for us, which would make him worth more, we're getting more of a "lock-down key defender" and they aren't worth as much on the trade table, or open market.

 

[boncer34]

Why are you ?
It's every chance your club will net the same as mine from this affair ... Nothing !!

 

[RoundCubic]

This is why the transfer market is fairer. At least clubs are compensated with money via transfer fees for developing a player... possibility Essendon will get nothing and don't think its fair at all. Transfer market however - you will get something for sure.... but with Draft and PSD etc its all bullshit for clubs.

Wow how surprising a Carlton fan wants money to be a determining factor in player management great Carlton can then spend the next 10 years behind the Sydney Packers or the Brisbane Rineharts and players can be treated as cattle. Look at the majority of trades it is usually about 3 things wanting to return home, wanting to be in the best 22 or because of a club conflict/problem rarely is it about greed.
Essendon went through a bad period Worsfold may change it but some players just want a fresh start. I think Brisbane should have a slightly higher cap because there are so few local talents but it also needs to work on supporting new draftees.
The system does work but you have to have a culture to keep players and form a tight bond. Saints lost Cripps for nothing because he wanted home to WA and in the end if you draft interstate players that's a risk you take.
Essendon had that tight player bond but if you get caught running an experimental and probably illegal injection program you are gonna lose some players

 

[Keystone agony]

Were not asking for 1600 points between 1200-1000 points is a fair trade for Hendo.. getting 1600 points for Carlisle is a bonanza.

Arent you asking for pick 9 from Geelong?

Sorry to derail

 

[boncer34]

Wow how surprising a Carlton fan wants money to be a determining factor in player management great Carlton can then spend the next 10 years behind the Sydney Packers or the Brisbane Rineharts and players can be treated as cattle. Look at the majority of trades it is usually about 3 things wanting to return home, wanting to be in the best 22 or because of a club conflict/problem rarely is it about greed.
Essendon went through a bad period Worsfold may change it but some players just want a fresh start. I think Brisbane should have a slightly higher cap because there are so few local talents but it also needs to work on supporting new draftees.
The system does work but you have to have a culture to keep players and form a tight bond. Saints lost Cripps for nothing because he wanted home to WA and in the end if you draft interstate players that's a risk you take.
Essendon had that tight player bond but if you get caught running an experimental and probably illegal injection program you are gonna lose some players

Ludicrous post.

Gina is from Perth, no way she'd bankroll Brisbane.

 

[Keystone agony]

If picks around that range are so enticing why wouldn't you accept two of them for Carlisle??

Because Carlisles worth a fair bit more

 

[Keystone agony]

We got Dunstan with pick 18 (effectively pick 20) and Goddard with pick 21. Pick 23 this year is likely to be pick 27 or so by the time FA compo picks and so-on are handed out and it would be a stretch to expect those types to slide that far this year.

The thing with our list rebuild is that we've stated many times that we want to rebuild through the draft and we've had a lot of picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds in the past few years, but only the two picks in the top 10 (actually only two picks in the top 17) and that's not enough if we want to be able to compete down the track with the squads that teams like GWS and WB have put together. About the last thing we need is more picks in the 2nd or third round.

I think we believe we need at least one more really high pick to get some more elite young talent in and it's my understanding that we fully intend to use pick 5 in this year's draft for exactly that purpose.

Getting Carlisle would be extremely handy and of course we're keen, but I'm not sure we're so keen that we're prepared to forgo our plan to build mainly through the draft and to bring in as much elite young talent as we can that way. It's not like we're planning on winning next year's flag and that Carlisle is the last chance we'll have to complete our 2016 premiership puzzle. There will be more opportunities to get Carlisle/Henderson types going forward, especially if we still have a s**t-tonne of cap space free, but there will hopefully be a lot less opportunities for us to have a pick as high as 5 in any of the upcoming drafts. That's probably why we're so reluctant/unwiling to part with it.

That's not what he said I don't believe, as far as I'm aware he said that no-one else who is available this trade period has done those things. (I'd argue that Henderson has overall performed at least as well, if not better though and yet his trade value seems to have plummeted this past couple of months after a drop in output, while Carlisle's doesn't seem to have, despite two poor years ).

Only problem with what Dodoro said though is that Carlisle did those things up forward, but supposedly doesn't want to play there at his next club. So we're not getting someone who is likely to be having those sorts of games up forward for us, which would make him worth more, we're getting more of a "lock-down key defender" and they aren't worth as much on the trade table, or open market.

Its a sign of the quality he can produce. He also mentioned about his first half of the season as a defender aswell which is widely known to be AA type quality by many neutrals.

He may aswell have extended it to no one else in comp can do that then - if he didnt.

Youd be quite happy with ypur selections though and your players picked at the 20 odd range. It really doesn't matter if you havnt had top end picks if those 20 range picks are doing more or as much as those top end picks are.

Maybe its time to trade one for an 8 year key defender that has the ability to be all australia. These guys dont grow on trees.

 

[RoundCubic]

Ludicrous post.

Gina is from Perth, no way she'd bankroll Brisbane.

I'm gonna assume your joking

I do not actually think that Rinehart is looking to buy out Brisbane.

There are a lot of differences between leagues like the Premier League or NFL and the AFL to start with its one thing to transfer a contract and move a player across the country against his wishes when they make 3-6 million a year its another when they are on 200/300k

Anyway the original point was silly because out of contract players don't have player transfer fees