Greatest Dynasty of the 21st century - Lions vs Cats vs Hawks vs Tigers

[captain blood 17]

Anyone who thinks that avatar is cool is a complete muppet, what the fu** is wrong with you mate?

It’s just an avatar mate. You get upset at the rebranding of cheese as well?

 

[captain blood 17]

It’s quite simple, in the years running up to the three premierships/four grand finals

Geelong players were nightly rated by media, but they self confessed were out on the piss/ took the piss
Brisbane players clocked up a wooden spoon (new coach matthews once threatened to breathylise them)
Richmond - well not the players but the board fought off an attempted coup

Hawthorn players clocked up an underdog premiership (and admittedly went on the piss too afterwards)

That is the context in dynasty terms

Players were massively behind Hardwick. In fact at the time I was told it was borderline unhealthy the love.

 

[Pessimistic]

It’s just an avatar mate. You get upset at the rebranding of cheese as well?

So it seems the guy was parodying a simpsons character. It all makes sense now

 

[Lsta062]

Imagine the next 15 years

Team A
4 flags
1 Semi final exit
1 9th place finish
2 times finished 14th-15th
7 wooden spoons

Team B
3 flags
4 runner ups
5 prelim finals exits
2 semi final exits
Once finished 9th

Indulge me.

Which club had a more successful 15 years?

Which club was "greater" over the 15 year period?

Which club would you rather be a supporter of, over the 15 year period?

I think that Team A is more successful because at the end of the day, Team A had more successful seasons if you look at the biggest success in the AFL. As a team, you do not go home with anything for losing, no matter how close you were to winning.

I would probably prefer to be a supporter of Team B just because they’d probably have more entertaining matches for a supporter and probably have more wins than Team A over the period. I don’t think that enjoyment following a team corresponds with success though. I don’t think it makes Team B a better dynasty, although the meaning of a dynasty is probably open to interpretation (we can just look at the varying opinions on here).

It’s easy to look at your data with the arguments you present, but let’s have a look at it in the context of a 5-year period. Western Bulldogs and GWS have started winning finals in 2016. Bulldogs won the Premiership in 2016 at the expense of GWS in the PF. Since then, GWS have made a PF, GF and SF while Bulldogs have not won a final. Would you say that GWS was the more successful side? I personally don’t think so. At the end of the day, one has won the Premiership and the other one did not. I liken it with the following example:

1.000000000000 is greater than 0.999999999999 no matter how many numbers after the decimal point of 0 are greater than those that come after the decimal point of 1. At the end of the day, it is still not equal to or above 1. That’s the same with 4.00000 vs 3.99999. This is how I personally see Premierships vs other achievements. More Premierships take a team automatically a tier above another team because they had more seasons where they were good enough to be the last team standing and not defeated.

 

[Pessimistic]

Any supporter who’s team has a run of 3 premierships in Their recent memory is considering themselves lucky

 

[captain blood 17]

Any supporter who’s team has a run of 3 premierships in Their recent memory is considering themselves lucky

I have 2 from the 80’s as well. My old man for example has seen more flags supporting the Tiges than any living Hawks supporter. His pen.is is pretty large.

 

[Pessimistic]

Players were massively behind Hardwick. In fact at the time I was told it was borderline unhealthy the love.

As you know, he was at the hawks 2005-2008, so then eight years at Richmond before a flag. He definitely built the team from scratch

 

[captain blood 17]

As you know, he was at the hawks 2005-2008, so then eight years at Richmond before a flag. He definitely built the team from scratch

The thing is there’s no easy flags and everyone is deserved. The fact that the Lions, Cats, Hawks and Tiges have done what they have done is massive. And keep in mind on the Tiges, we had a blowout in 2016, but, had played finals for 3 straight seasons prior. History will show Hardwicks assessment of our list in 2016 when they laughed at him as correct. He might just be able to read, assess and understand what a premiership team looks like i reckon.

 

[Fadge]

The 10 best AFL teams to never win a premiership since 2000

We've ranked the best teams to never claim the ultimate glory. Did we get it right? 🧐

www.zerohanger.com

Interesting article.

Criteria is:
Each team in top 10 can only be listed once;
Team cannot have won a premiership in the year prior or after.

So excludes teams like Collingwood 2011, Geelong 2008, Essendon 2001.

In Summary:
- Saints 2009 rated best team not to win the flag.
- Bulldogs 2010 included, with a note the 2009 team could have just as easily been selected.
- No mention of any teams in the 2017 to 2020 years.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

The 10 best AFL teams to never win a premiership since 2000

We've ranked the best teams to never claim the ultimate glory. Did we get it right? 🧐

www.zerohanger.com

Interesting article.

Criteria is:
Each team in top 10 can only be listed once;
Team cannot have won a premiership in the year prior or after.

So excludes teams like Collingwood 2011, Geelong 2008, Essendon 2001.

In Summary:
- Saints 2009 rated best team not to win the flag.
- Bulldogs 2010 included, with a note the 2009 team could have just as easily been selected.
- No mention of any teams in the 2017 to 2020 years.

Their main criteria seems to be you need to play s**t in finals that year after a lot of ultimately meaningless home and away wins.

Give it a spell Fadge. If you are truly good you play really well in the finals. GWS 16, Port 14, teams like that.

 

[Fadge]

Their main criteria seems to be you need to play sh*t in finals that year after a lot of ultimately meaningless home and away wins.

Give it a spell Fadge. If you are truly good you play really well in the finals. GWS 16, Port 14, teams like that.

Complete independence by the author and their main criteria is to use the appropriate data available to make their assessment, instead of using less than 10% of available data.

Maybe you could learn something from them?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Complete independence by the author and their main criteria is to use the appropriate data available to make their assessment, instead of using less than 10% of available data.

Maybe you could learn something from them?

Complete independence doesn’t mean they are right. Or completely independent….

I have already shown how using the most relevant data gives a much better indicator as to who is likely to win Grand Finals. Ie, finals form. Home and away results selects GF winners from two Grand Finalists at a worse rate than flipping a coin.

And it may not suit some people here who are seeking to be apologists for their own clubs’ lack of Grand Final success, but might I take this opportunity to remind everybody….the AFL is a competition to win Grand Finals.

 

[Fadge]

Complete independence doesn’t mean they are right. Or completely independent….

I have already shown how using the most relevant data gives a much better indicator as to who is likely to win Grand Finals. Ie, finals form. Home and away results selects GF winners from two Grand Finalists at a worse rate than flipping a coin.

And it may not suit some people here who are seeking to be apologists for their own clubs’ lack of Grand Final success, but might I take this opportunity to remind everybody….the AFL is a competition to win Grand Finals.

Yep, you're good at picking the Grand Final winner after the result is known.

Case in point, 'Brisbane's finals form in 2003 leading into the Grand Final was comfortably better than Collingwood's'.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Yep, you're good at picking the Grand Final winner after the result is known.

Case in point, 'Brisbane's finals form in 2003 leading into the Grand Final was comfortably better than Collingwood's'.

Because you can’t understand it, it doesn’t mean it isn’t true. That you cannot understand it after having it explained must be a helluva concern for you.

 

[BF Tiger]

The 10 best AFL teams to never win a premiership since 2000

We've ranked the best teams to never claim the ultimate glory. Did we get it right? 🧐

www.zerohanger.com

Interesting article.

Criteria is:
Each team in top 10 can only be listed once;
Team cannot have won a premiership in the year prior or after.

So excludes teams like Collingwood 2011, Geelong 2008, Essendon 2001.

In Summary:
- Saints 2009 rated best team not to win the flag.
- Bulldogs 2010 included, with a note the 2009 team could have just as easily been selected.
- No mention of any teams in the 2017 to 2020 years.

Their main criteria seems to be you need to play sh*t in finals that year after a lot of ultimately meaningless home and away wins.

Give it a spell Fadge. If you are truly good you play really well in the finals. GWS 16, Port 14, teams like that.

The main criteria is that the teams mentioned DIDN’T win a flag.

Also heavily biased against Richmond 2018... because we won a flag the year before... and after.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

The main criteria is that the teams mentioned DIDN’T win a flag.

Also heavily biased against Richmond 2018... because we won a flag the year before... and after.

That is their main stated criteria BF Tiger. I was having a dig at them. They have not even included Port Adelaide 2014 who I thought displayed clearly the best form in that finals series, yet include Port 2002 who barely gave a whimper in the finals, and Swans 2016 who lost twice in the finals, by one comfortable and one big margin.

They may as well have headlined the article the teams with the best home and away records to bottle the finals.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Apart from the pure analysis of results which you've done well, there's Geelong essentially contending for 17 years straight. That in itself is a huge achievement, going beyond the individual season results tallies.

The AFL tries to ensure every team gets a crack. And they all have. All the current teams have played a Grand Final within the past 22 seasons except Gold Coast who've been around for 10. In an 18 team professional sporting comp, that's incredible equality.

Within that context to continually contend for this long is amazing. And yes they had good father/sons. But other clubs had priority picks, COLA, merger transferees, brown paper bags, or first choice from an entire footballing state. And no one else remained up for this long.

My first footy memory is watching the 1992 Grand Final. Interestingly, Geelong and West Coast have turned out as the two consistent contenders since then. Neither has remained down for long (Geelong mostly struggled 98-03 and West Coast 08-10 but overall they've kept coming back).

During my footy watching lifetime, Hawthorn has same flags as West Coast and one more than Geelong. But they were average or bad for large chunks of the 90s and 00s, and haven't won a final since 2015. They won 4 in a relatively short window but otherwise unremarkable.

But Geelong and West Coast are the most consistently successful clubs in my footy lifetime, decade after decade. So I'd rate them the most impressive clubs. Putting themselves into the finals and in a position to win a flag, time and time again with different generations of players.

So with that background I'd say:

1 year: Essendon 2000 (or Geelong 2011 if restricted to seasons from this thread).

3 years: Brisbane 2001-2003.

5 years: Geelong 2007-2011.

10 years: Hawthorn 2007-2016.

Then once you get to about 15 years the pendulum swings back to Geelong I reckon, for reasons outlined above- the value of longevity and consistent performance in a highly equalised environment.

It’s interesting the value you place on dominating during a highly equalized competition.

Most dominant consecutive Premierships, with 6 x finals wins in a row:

Bris: 2001 & 2002: 166%

Hawks: 2013 & 2014: 149%

Cats: 2007 & 2009: 187%

Tigers: 2017 & 2019: 190%

Which begs the question.... when was the last team to better 190% in consecutive Premiership campaigns by essentially the same team?

Not bad for the 9th rated team of the last 20-years .





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[Roby]

Tigers fans in this thread..

 

[PJays]

The 10 best AFL teams to never win a premiership since 2000

We've ranked the best teams to never claim the ultimate glory. Did we get it right? 🧐

www.zerohanger.com

Interesting article.

Criteria is:
Each team in top 10 can only be listed once;
Team cannot have won a premiership in the year prior or after.

So excludes teams like Collingwood 2011, Geelong 2008, Essendon 2001.

In Summary:
- Saints 2009 rated best team not to win the flag.
- Bulldogs 2010 included, with a note the 2009 team could have just as easily been selected.
- No mention of any teams in the 2017 to 2020 years.

This may sound biased, but using their criteria surely St.Kilda 2009 wins by a country mile

Lost 3 games for the entire season by a combined total of 19 points. The first 2 were dead rubbers and the 3rd was the Grand Final.

Absolutely destroyed some teams that year. Throttled teams with immense pressure and then played a controlled attack which gave the opposition little chance.

Recently I was reminiscing about that year and I recalled watching us defeat the 3rd placed Bulldogs early in the season, how we completely manhandled another premiership contender and that was the game I realised we we'd found another gear and would give the premiership a serious crack. After checking the stats I was amazed to find we only won by 28. However I recall we dominated the play and the stats suggest that's true based on disposals and scoring shots.

Sadly, similar outcome in the GF. Won the general play but were inefficient in front of goal. Except the difference wasn't a 28 point win instead of a 50 point win, it was losing instead of winning the premiership.

 

[Fadge]

Most dominant consecutive Premierships, with 6 x finals wins in a row:

Bris: 2001 & 2002: 166%

Hawks: 2013 & 2014: 149%

Cats: 2007 & 2009: 187%

Tigers: 2017 & 2019: 190%

Which begs the question.... when was the last team to better 190% in consecutive Premiership campaigns by essentially the same team?

I didn't realise 2007/2009 and 2017/2019 were 'consecutive'?

You certainly learn something new every day on Bigfooty....

 

[Fadge]

The main criteria is that the teams mentioned DIDN’T win a flag.

Also heavily biased against Richmond 2018... because we won a flag the year before... and after.

Heavily biased against Richmond because they were shite between 2000 and 2016.

If they did allow the likes of Essendon 2001, Geelong 2008, Collingwood 2011 and Hawthorn 2012 and Richmond 2018 (along with the other teams they did list) in the discussion, where would the Richmond 2018 team rank?

 

[Fadge]

The main criteria is that the teams mentioned DIDN’T win a flag.

Yes. That would be expected in an article titled 'The best 10 AFL teams never to win a premiership'....

However, the article is relevant to the thread topic given the extent of debate around the quality of opposition each of the dynasty teams faced.

I'm sure the Richmond folk are surprised there is no mention of Adelaide 2017, whilst the Bulldogs team of 2009/10 gets a gong...

 

[Fadge]

Tigers fans in this thread..

I am highly reassured with this assessment.

 

[Noidnadroj]

I didn't realise 2007/2009 and 2017/2019 were 'consecutive'?

You certainly learn something new every day on Bigfooty....

You know what I mean .... but I assume your response means you haven’t found a team that has bettered this yet ....


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[Noidnadroj]

Heavily biased against Richmond because they were sh*te between 2000 and 2016.

If they did allow the likes of Essendon 2001, Geelong 2008, Collingwood 2011 and Hawthorn 2012 and Richmond 2018 (along with the other teams they did list) in the discussion, where would the Richmond 2018 team rank?

Given they won a flag before it and 2 flags after it, and finished 2 games clear on top, I’d say second behind Geelong 2008


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