Analysis Good, Bad, Ugly v Port Adelaide Round 8 2021

[John Who]

Good - we're now on track for top 4 in draft pick!

Bad - every few minutes of the entire match, there was bound to be some examples.

Ugly - 2/3 of a season still to go!

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We are seriously lacking class/speed in the midfield right now. I don't think I saw any clean passes into the forward 50 for the whole game.

 

[Murray2503]

Play Fog deep. Hes great on the lead and the best shot for goal at the club. RT is athletic and takes a good mark, play him across HF. Doedee is a great interceptor, why play him as a KPD when we have McAsey? Why play DMac when Worrel is wasting away in the 2’s?Why don’t we play to our strengths?

I'm not sure. I hoped the new coaches would bring a better selection philosophy. What's the directive from above to Nick's? Is it development or to win games as he's not achieving either successfully at present. I hope our football director and football manager are having no say in selection. This is one of the disadvantages of not hiring an experienced coach as a coach such as Nick's can be "influenced" by senior staff. The positive is that there are no more average seniors he can bring in this week so we may see a debutant or two. O'Connor and Worrell deserve to be playing in the senior side imo.

 

[Scorpus]

We've gone from having the oldest list to the youngest in 2 years, but we're not turning over the list? Which planet are you on?

We are turning the list over in the trade and draft period and that is forcing our hand at selection to some extent.

We are not turning the list over during the season at match committee

 

[Vader]

We are turning the list over in the trade and draft period and that is forcing our hand at selection to some extent.

We are not turning the list over during the season at match committee

And who should we be rotating in?

Murray should have played instead of Mackay, that's a given. Then there's Worrell. After that, there's not a lot to choose from.

We did make 4 unforced changes this week...

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[Crow till I die]

No polish whatsoever and never looked like winning but can't fault the effort or the way we went with the contest.

Significant improvement in clearances, tackles and one percenters. Up against a Top 4 side we can't expect anything more than that at the moment.

In 8 games so far we've only looked uncompetitive in 1 - the GWS game. Last year I can think of 10 off the top of my head.

Maintain that level, keep getting games into them, but still finish bottom 4 for Horne or Roberts is the goal. We need the Saints, Bombers and Pies to win a few more!

Thilthorpe gonna be special.

Oh and Lycett's tackle was a dog act. Just pure filth.

Really what the hope is is that guys like roberts have huge second halves of the season to give real hope they can take the AFL by storm then it means a bottom 2 or 3 finish will yield a super player

 

[GreyCrow]

We've gone from having the oldest list to the youngest in 2 years, but we're not turning over the list? Which planet are you on?

We have a grand total of 1 player in the SANFL who has a reasonable grievance about not being selected (Worrell). The rest of them are kids who either aren't good enough (Hately), injured (Pedlar, amongst others), or simply not ready (Newchurch, and many others).

We talk about needing to get players to 50 games ASAP. You can't do that quickly if you're constantly rotating them out of the side.

We've turned over a massive portion of our list, and now we have no depth. That's something we're going to have to live with for a few years.

*** I am not defending the inexplicable selection of Mackay this week. Last week was justifiable and understandable, this week was not. Murray should have been selected in his place.

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You are all over the shop here

You say Hately isnt good enough then say players need to stop being rotated in and out of the side - just like Hately was. Now its your opinion on Hately and his ability but how you can definitively say this after 2 games ( plus his GWS games ) is either way too early or you should be working at any club with this insight.

 

[jackster83]

And who should we be rotating in?

Murray should have played instead of Mackay, that's a given. Then there's Worrell. After that, there's not a lot to choose from.

We did make 4 unforced changes this week...

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Unforced changes to accommodate senior blokes coming back from injury really aren't unforced changes. It's simply undoing a forced change from the previous week(s).

 

[Crow till I die]

Would have loved Thilthorpe to clunk those two pack grabs in the 4th. Nearly held them. Won't be long

Yep..only had 6 possessions but he should have had 3 goals but for needing strapping to his knee and if he had held those 2 pack efforts may have ended with another 5 goal bag. In a forward line that offered so little from the other key forwards the youg fella should not feel too unhappy with his effort

 

[Dewy006]

Ya taaaarkin rubbish man, people like you are bringing the club down.

No doubt you'd like to retain Mackay?

What the hell are people watching? Fogs played 4 games this year at an average of 8.5 Disposals a game and 1 goal. Take out the 3 goals against the worst side in the comp and it makes it look even worse, and that’s despite logging significant midfield minutes around the ball!

If this was Jones posters would be yelling BUST!!! from the mountain tops, wanting him on the next boat back to Tassie, but not Fog, no he must stay in for the rest of the year.

 

[Scorpus]

And who should we be rotating in?

Murray should have played instead of Mackay, that's a given. Then there's Worrell. After that, there's not a lot to choose from.

We did make 4 unforced changes this week...

On SM-T510 using BigFooty.com mobile app

I agree that it's a difficult situation. However right now we are (and have been, mostly) playing every single available senior/experienced player on the list.

I would have done the following:

- Not play Mackay at all, except for as the sub, regardless of the amount of injuries

- Rested Tom Lynch about 3 weeks before the infamous sub incident, thus freeing up a spot for a younger player (at least temporarily)

- Rested Walker for 1-2 weeks after he first reported soreness, opening the door for someone else, again temporarily

- Rotated Jake Kelly in and out of the side given he is a role player and not a core senior player in the team

- Rested Luke Brown for longer when he first reported Achilles soreness several weeks ago, not brought him straight back

- Not sure whether Frampton classes as an experienced player given he's been on AFL lists for 7 years for 13 games... but I would have dropped him way earlier

Take your pick of younger players to bring in. Worrell, Hately for a longer stint, Thilthorpe earlier, Fogarty earlier, McAsey, Jones and O'Connor more recently...


This also would have opened up more opportunities to rest younger players. If we rested (for example) Tex or Brown for a few weeks, then brought in a kid, we could rest a different kid to bring them back

 

[StonesThrow]

On Himmelberg *sigh* --- I don't know.
I want him to succeed and we're still waiting for his breakout game, marking him as a player with a big future (eg like Thilthorpe's debut and last night's game, and he's, what, 18?). EH is 23 in June
Proponents make a lot of the fact that he competes (but with little effect, imo), and challenges for contested marks (but takes very few, let's face it --- even chest marks are a challenge for him). Worse, he's not a good kick for goal.
From what I've seen he's fit, runs around a lot, but like a headless chook. Has intent, but poor execution and no footy smarts.

So, he's a KPF who lacks all of a KPF's attributes.

I really, really hope I am wrong, but I just cannot see him making it .

He showed all the attributes last year for his last half a dozen games (when he was 16 games deep at afl level). I'm happy to give him time but it doesn't really work with TT and walker with 1 small forward who has played 8 games.

Going forward, having Himm play like he was last year with TT would be a good tall combo.

 

[GreyCrow]

- Rested Walker for 1-2 weeks after he first reported soreness, opening the door for someone else, again temporarily

This is the difficult one. Given last year - yes its a good call. But given his form this year you would have to a very brave coach to make that call

 

[StonesThrow]

What the hell are people watching? Fogs played 4 games this year at an average of 8.5 Disposals a game and 1 goal. Take out the 3 goals against the worst side in the comp and it makes it look even worse, and that’s despite logging significant midfield minutes around the ball!

If this was Jones posters would be yelling BUST!!! from the mountain tops, wanting him on the next boat back to Tassie, but not Fog, no he must stay in for the rest of the year.

How about we just have patience with the both of them? Jones clearly lost it mentally last year and needs to be given a large amount of Sanfl time.

Fog has never been given any continuity in both games played and a role. We chuck him in and out of the side and into a new role. He doesn't dominate and we should just give up after 4 games (albeit being dropped in between those)?

 

[Carmo]

Fog was crap. 10 D, 1 goal. 3 tackles.

Yer, needs to be getting up to 13 disposals and a goal or 15-17 disposals without. 3 tackles is ok, four or 5 would be good.

 

[Carmo]

I agree with all, but this (quoted).
Himmelberg was a liability. Aliir gave him a bath.
eg did you see Aliir's easy chest mark in the 3rd quarter? That was facilitated by Himmelberg leaving his man, to add to the player congestion in the R-forward pocket.
Blatant, dumb ball-chasing.
Aliir stayed back wisely, probably realising that Berg wasn't going to do any good in the crowded area and sure enough, was able to mark and clear. It was replayed on Ch7 from behind the goal.

Its not that simple, you are comparing our forward in a outnumbered situation versus their defender in an extra number situation. Yes, Berg made mistakes, but so did Aliir. Berg was so close a lot of the time, extremely unlucky not to clunk a few of those marks.

 

[Vader]

You are all over the shop here

You say Hately isnt good enough then say players need to stop being rotated in and out of the side - just like Hately was. Now its your opinion on Hately and his ability but how you can definitively say this after 2 games ( plus his GWS games ) is either way too early or you should be working at any club with this insight.

Let's just say that there's a reason why the club wasn't willing to pay more than a PSD pick, in order to get Hately across from GWS.

 

[hey shorty]

fu** why can’t a journalist ask this.

Because it's a dumb question.

In hindsight it's a wonder they haven't asked it.

 

[Vader]

Unforced changes to accommodate senior blokes coming back from injury really aren't unforced changes. It's simply undoing a forced change from the previous week(s).

Sloane & Brown were senior players returning. Hamill & Fogarty were not.

 

[hey shorty]

We are turning the list over in the trade and draft period and that is forcing our hand at selection to some extent.

We are not turning the list over during the season at match committee

The 2 aren't exclusive though are they.

 

[Mutineer]

Let's just say that there's a reason why the club wasn't willing to pay more than a PSD pick, in order to get Hately across from GWS.

But they were prepared to pony up for Hately, just not the pick that GWS/McCartney wanted

 

[Vader]

I agree that it's a difficult situation. However right now we are (and have been, mostly) playing every single available senior/experienced player on the list.

Playing every single senior player is by design - we traded/delisted all of the other experienced players that we didn't rate. We're now left with a core group of senior players who the coaches rate very highly, and who will play every game for which they are passed fit. That's the result of deliberate list management decisions.

** Mackay is the only exception to this, and I have said repeatedly that Murray should have been selected instead of him this week.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

How many centre bounces did Schoenberg attend?

 

[Vader]

But they were prepared to pony up for Hately, just not the pick that GWS/McCartney wanted

This is pure supposition... but assuming it's true, what pick do you believe the AFC were willing to offer?

Hately showed SFA while he was at GWS, and that form line has continued unbroken since returning the SA.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

But they were prepared to pony up for Hately, just not the pick that GWS/McCartney wanted

Seems an odd one

Nicks had worked with him so you assume he wanted him and saw a role.

Now has played two games out of eight and is out of the team?

Why did we get him if we didn't see a position or if he was just going to end up in the mix with our recent draftees?

 

[Scorpus]

Playing every single senior player is by design - we traded/delisted all of the other experienced players that we didn't rate. We're now left with a core group of senior players who the coaches rate very highly, and who will play every game for which they are passed fit. That's the result of deliberate list management decisions.

** Mackay is the only exception to this, and I have said repeatedly that Murray should have been selected instead of him this week.

And we're grinding those experienced players into the dirt by neither resting nor rotating them.

Guys like Lynch, Brown, Kelly, Seedsman... these players are not integral to whether we win or lose a match. If they are even slightly injured or out of form, that's a great opportunity to bring in a young player

In a development year we need to take these opportunities