Who will be better in 2023 Richmond or Brisbane?

[Meteoric Rise]

Hopper and Taranto for Richmond = O'Meara and Mitchell for Hawthorn.

Same result coming up.

Treading water and hoping to eke out one more flag before the inevitable drop down

You are just another two in a long line of fools.

You are the reason,
2023 is
going to be a
VERY pleasin season.

 

[Fadge]

Comp was weak in 2009/10 mate that’s why saints got 20-2 with an unimpressive list. Ask yourself what’s more likely every other year is s**t or it’s just those years are an exception of a weak comp. 20-2 teams don’t get thumped by 56 points in a GF. They should be getting 3peats. You kick GWS, Port, Swans as weak GFs but not the saints. Interesting.

Meteoric Rise likes this.



(BTW, yet another instance of zero care factor for factual posting)...

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Adelaide finished top and won their 2 x lead in finals by 6-goals and 10-goals. They had scored 250 more points than next best.

The had 8 players in the 40-man AA squad, with 3 (Laird, Crouch and Betts) making the team. They had Betts (55), Walker (54) and Jenkins (45) all kick over 45 goals. Then Charlie Cameron (29) and Tom Lynch (31) on top of that.

So … after obliterating the Cats in the PF, would anyone have said they’d not get within 6-10 goals of the 2009 Saints?

So it’s only after Richmond flogged them that the narrative became “gee, what an easy GF opponent”, when in reality when looking at finals wins, finishing top, AA squad members, scoring power and most metrics they were a dominant team and easily would have been ranked on par
with the 2009 Saints during Grand Final week.

I remember the commentary that week about how good Adelaide were. I remember the ‘expert’ tipsters. I remember the odds. I remember thinking we’d lose as they had too many gun players. I remember them kicking the first 2
Goals and everyone thought Richmond’s run had
ended…..

So the Crows of 2017 on every measure for all but 2-hours were a magnificent side - did you think they were average when they embarrassed the Cats in the first 40-minutes of the PF? Of course not. The narrative they weren’t a magnificent side has crept in as people like to downplay their quality, but it’s just not backed up by the facts of the 2017 season as a whole.




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they were ordinary mate, sorry to break it to you. And i am happy to admit reality that beating geelong in a final by a large margin was not unusual during that decade. We got delt a few big losses along the journey of redevelopment. Yes i am sure some commentators the week of the AFL grand final said adelaide are a good side, what on earth were you expecting them to say about the two teams playing off in the GF week?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Adelaide finished top and won their 2 x lead in finals by 6-goals and 10-goals. They had scored 250 more points than next best.

The had 8 players in the 40-man AA squad, with 3 (Laird, Crouch and Betts) making the team. They had Betts (55), Walker (54) and Jenkins (45) all kick over 45 goals. Then Charlie Cameron (29) and Tom Lynch (31) on top of that.

So … after obliterating the Cats in the PF, would anyone have said they’d not get within 6-10 goals of the 2009 Saints?

So it’s only after Richmond flogged them that the narrative became “gee, what an easy GF opponent”, when in reality when looking at finals wins, finishing top, AA squad members, scoring power and most metrics they were a dominant team and easily would have been ranked on par
with the 2009 Saints during Grand Final week.

I remember the commentary that week about how good Adelaide were. I remember the ‘expert’ tipsters. I remember the odds. I remember thinking we’d lose as they had too many gun players. I remember them kicking the first 2
Goals and everyone thought Richmond’s run had
ended…..

So the Crows of 2017 on every measure for all but 2-hours were a magnificent side - did you think they were average when they embarrassed the Cats in the first 40-minutes of the PF? Of course not. The narrative they weren’t a magnificent side has crept in as people like to downplay their quality, but it’s just not backed up by the facts of the 2017 season as a whole.




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yep, comparable in... pretty much nothing at all. the two ladders speak for themselves. it is pretty sad that adelaide team was your big bad brutal opponent over 3 premierships.. geezus that says alot

 

[Do the Dew]

Yep, you guys are old and unlike Geelong, you did not recruit two gun forwards (Cameron & Stengle) to fall back on if the midfield is getting beaten.

Brisbane had no Hipwood for a quarter of the season. He returned from an ACL and improved as the season progressed. He will take another step forward in 2023.
Dunkley is a contested ball magnet. Allows Zorko to fade away into the sunset.
They will have nine players aged between 24-27, the sweet spot when competing for a premiership.
They just beat Richmond as underdogs in this years elimination final and went on to play in a prelim.

That doesn't make sense. If your midfield is getting beaten, your forwards won't go near the ball anyway...

You also talk about Hipwood being out as if that's a huge loss. Guy is a B grade forward. Tigers had Lynch out for a chunk of matches where we lost 2 by under a goal and drew another. Arguably kept us out of the top 4 with him missing. Not to mention Dusty who barely played.

We've recruited two inside ball winners to bolster the only area of the ground we're weak in. Now we'll have a team that actually wins clearances and doesn't solely rely on Prestia (the guy that sniper Stewart gutlessly took out).

 

[juss]

do people feel there is more pressure on fagan or more pressure on hardwick to deliver this year given the offseason boom recruitment?

Fagan easily.
Fagan has a long tenure with nothing more than losing PF and a bungling multiple top 4 finishes to show for it.

Hardwick has a long tenure, but still 3 of the last 6 AFL flags, so his runs on the board, so while I think there will be heat if we don't play finals, it's kind of expected that our era is winding down rather than pressure to win a flag.

 

[Rich01]

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yep, comparable in... pretty much nothing at all. the two ladders speak for themselves. it is pretty sad that adelaide team was your big bad brutal opponent over 3 premierships.. geezus that says alot

Not sure if there was a worse bottom 9 than that 2009 class. A real step down in quality after the top 7 teams that year. Some real percentage booster opportunities for those top teams.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

View attachment 1569273View attachment 1569276

yep, comparable in... pretty much nothing at all. the two ladders speak for themselves. it is pretty sad that adelaide team was your big bad brutal opponent over 3 premierships.. geezus that says alot

St Kilda of that era had one single win in a final v a team with more than 15 home and away season wins. They fell in by a kick with less scoring shots in that game. They won no flags and didn’t prove themselves better than any other team that couldn’t win a Grand Final. They were St Kilda. They were playing Grand Finals against proven Second Division Grand Final clubs. And failed to win.

 

[Falcon3518]

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yep, comparable in... pretty much nothing at all. the two ladders speak for themselves. it is pretty sad that adelaide team was your big bad brutal opponent over 3 premierships.. geezus that says alot

And you ignore finals completely yet again. I swear to god Geelong fans don’t know finals exist. You don’t acknowledge them at all. That 20-2 team got flogged in the GF by more than Adelaide who you say are shocking proving that 09/10 was a weak era.


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[Falcon3518]

Not sure if there was a worse bottom 9 than that 2009 class. A real step down in quality after the top 7 teams that year. Some real percentage booster opportunities for those top teams.

Yep he doesn’t get it. The more even the comp is the harder it is. But don’t expect a guy who thinks Dal Santo will get in the HOF over Cotchin seriously. They’ve drunk the cool aid down at Geelong to cope with them not winning 08 & 10.


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[FreddyTwoShoes]

And you ignore finals completely yet again. I swear to god Geelong fans don’t know finals exist. You don’t acknowledge them at all. That 20-2 team got flogged in the GF by more than Adelaide who you say are shocking proving that 09/10 was a weak era.


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Don't know finals exist? Don't acknowledge them at all?

We definitely acknowledge them.


But why are you talking about Geelong in a Richmond & Brisbane thread?

 

[Fadge]

And you ignore finals completely yet again. I swear to god Geelong fans don’t know finals exist. You don’t acknowledge them at all. That 20-2 team got flogged in the GF by more than Adelaide who you say are shocking proving that 09/10 was a weak era.

FFS. No, they did not.

Why do to continue to have complete disregard for facts?

The 20-2 team were actually a toepoke away from a premiership against a team who many believe were the greatest team we have ever seen.

 

[Fadge]

Not sure if there was a worse bottom 9 than that 2009 class. A real step down in quality after the top 7 teams that year. Some real percentage booster opportunities for those top teams.

Yep he doesn’t get it. The more even the comp is the harder it is.

Terrible bottom 9 in 2009?

Let's start with the team who finished 9th, Hawthorn.

Premiers in 2008 and went on to play in finals between 2010 and 2016, including 4 grand finals and 3 premierships.

FMD.

 

[Fadge]

Yep he doesn’t get it. The more even the comp is the harder it is.

This is simply great logic when determining the relative strength of teams.

If the quality of the top team/s is closer to the quality of the teams outside the top 8, the competition is more difficult and therefore the better the teams who play in the Grand Final are.

Conversely, if the top teams put a gap between themselves and the rest of the competition, the competition is easier and therefore the Grand Final teams are worse.

FMD.

 

[Rich01]

Terrible bottom 9 in 2009?

Let's start with the team who finished 9th, Hawthorn.

Premiers in 2008 and went on to play in finals between 2010 and 2016, including 4 grand finals and 3 premierships.

FMD.

Yep. The perfect example.
This side only beat 2 sides in the 8 that year.
The difference in quality between the bottom 9 and the rest was stark.

 

[Fadge]

Yep. The perfect example.
This side only beat 2 sides in the 8 that year.
The difference in quality between the bottom 9 and the rest was stark.

Yeah, I'm sorry, but if you can't see that a team who goes 1st, 9th, 7th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st and 5th is a pretty handy team, I can't help you...

 

[Falcon3518]

Don't know finals exist? Don't acknowledge them at all?

We definitely acknowledge them.
View attachment 1569347

But why are you talking about Geelong in a Richmond & Brisbane thread?

All I keep hearing from Geelong supporters is that flags don’t matter (probably cause GAS doesn’t have one), finals awards don’t matter (probably cause GAJ didn’t get a Norm Smith), finals form doesn’t matter just H&A (unless you are criticising Richmond or Hawks opposition during their flags) and the previously mentioned ‘super team’ era cause you lost.

Not only that but the super team era coincidently end in 2011. So Cotchins Brownlow means f all cause it’s in the ‘weak era’. Funny that Geelong didn’t win in 2012 either. Like are you guys blind to what you are saying. It’s pretty unfair tbh, everybody from here on in will be weak premiers in your opinion.


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[Falcon3518]

FFS. No, they did not.

Why do to continue to have complete disregard for facts?

The 20-2 team were actually a toepoke away from a premiership against a team who many believe were the greatest team we have ever seen.

Greatest team ever that lost to baby hawks and didn’t go b2b? Yea sure thing mate. Imagine what every every other dynasty would’ve done to them, this was at their peak too !!!. Hawks 13-15 were miles better than 08 and so where we. They let Dew get of the chain and look what he did in 5 mins, can only imagine what Dusty would’ve done to them. Thought Scarlett and Enright are the best defenders ever, apparently not for a fat retired bloke lol. Don’t even get me started on Mooneys miss from 1 meter out.

Saints were the same team in 2010 mate and got thumped by an inferior opponent. By your own criteria they are weaker than Adelaide in 2017.


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[Falcon3518]

This is simply great logic when determining the relative strength of teams.

If the quality of the top team/s is closer to the quality of the teams outside the top 8, the competition is more difficult and therefore the better the teams who play in the Grand Final are.

Conversely, if the top teams put a gap between themselves and the rest of the competition, the competition is easier and therefore the Grand Final teams are worse.

FMD.

Put north in AFLW and they go undefeated. Same logic. You put the comp back in 09/10 against todays comp and they’d get thumped. Freo would’ve made top 4, Carlton, St Kilda of this year would’ve made finals if they played in the 09/10 comp. Easily.


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[Falcon3518]

Terrible bottom 9 in 2009?

Let's start with the team who finished 9th, Hawthorn.

Premiers in 2008 and went on to play in finals between 2010 and 2016, including 4 grand finals and 3 premierships.

FMD.

So hawks are ok for dropping off but Adelaide and GWS aren’t. Ok mate.


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[FreddyTwoShoes]

All I keep hearing from Geelong supporters is that flags don’t matter (probably cause GAS doesn’t have one), finals awards don’t matter (probably cause GAJ didn’t get a Norm Smith), finals form doesn’t matter just H&A (unless you are criticising Richmond or Hawks opposition during their flags) and the previously mentioned ‘super team’ era cause you lost.

Not only that but the super team era coincidently end in 2011. So Cotchins Brownlow means f all cause it’s in the ‘weak era’. Funny that Geelong didn’t win in 2012 either. Like are you guys blind to what you are saying. It’s pretty unfair tbh, everybody from here on in will be weak premiers in your opinion.


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Wow. That's a whole lot of gripes. I'm honestly not sure where to start.

 

[Falcon3518]

Wow. That's a whole lot of gripes. I'm honestly not sure where to start.

Don’t bother, your posts are meaningless.


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[Cubs2Lions]

Don’t bother, your posts are meaningless.


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[Grrr]

Brisbane had a far better trade and draft than Richmond. With the quality of the inclusions that we've gotten - on top of expected development from our younger players - we should outperform Richmond next year.

I would say Taranto is a quality admission. He is a B&F winner, is a classy and powerful footballer. Hopper is the grunt that Richmond have been missing, we often get beaten up around the ball. So those two are fairly significant admissions.

Of course your additions are strong as well, especially Dunkley, but far better is a bit of a stretch. Ashcroft in particular down the track will be a great addition but I wouldn't be touting him the coming season as against hardened mids he will know he has been playing.

So a far better trade season is a bit exaggerated.

 

[Falcon3518]

I would say Taranto is a quality admission. He is a B&F winner, is a classy and powerful footballer. Hopper is the grunt that Richmond have been missing, we often get beaten up around the ball. So those two are fairly significant admissions.

Of course your additions are strong as well, especially Dunkley, but far better is a bit of a stretch. Ashcroft in particular down the track will be a great addition but I wouldn't be touting him the coming season as against hardened mids he will know he has been playing.

So a far better trade season is a bit exaggerated.

They also lost McStay which seems to be forgetten. I don’t think they had a better trade period than us excluding the draft.

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