List Mgmt. 2018 NAB AFL Draft: November 22nd & 23rd

[Mighty_sainter]

I’m not disagreeing with this post, but just adding some thoughts....

How can we develop the likes of Gresh, Billings, Clark and Coff in the midfield when our midfield is full of players that can only play midfield? Ross, Dunstan and Steele (although I think he could develop into a resting 3rd tall type) are either in the midfield or on the bench.

Who would even know if our flankers could play in the middle, they never get the chance because our starting mids (bar Stuv) spend the whole game there.

Feel like Richo is pretty old school as in when you first come in and play senior footy it’s earn your stripes on a flank until you have a couple of pre seasons and then come in after your body has matured? I hate this method but it seems like apart from the 3-4 mids that are at every single centre bounce he’s reluctant to put anyone else in.

 

[Wright 1]

Just watched the Max King video - certainly looks impressive for his size - three things I did notice.

Very rarely any body contact in a marking contest

Virtually no third man up in any contest

His opponent was about 15 cm shorter than him.

Highly possible he could be the same as many talls who dominate at under age - could struggle for a number of years before he adjusts to defensive structures of AFL.

Can we afford that ATM?

This is what i was also saying

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I’m not disagreeing with this post, but just adding some thoughts....

How can we develop the likes of Gresh, Billings, Clark and Coff in the midfield when our midfield is full of players that can only play midfield? Ross, Dunstan and Steele (although I think he could develop into a resting 3rd tall type) are either in the midfield or on the bench.

Who would even know if our flankers could play in the middle, they never get the chance because our starting mids (bar Stuv) spend the whole game there.

They need to show more to get in there.
This is exactly why i'm happier for Geary to stay captain than someone like Ross.

Our team has the LOWEST number of contested possessions per game in the contest. Last season we were 10th. ( Seemingly by a number of players just being a bit better at it ).
At the lower end of our list we have 36 games to Clarke, Coffield and Rice. These players averaged less than 4 contested possessions per game.
If that's what they can do they might get away with a forward, rebounding hb or wing role. They need to show a lot more to get in the guts.

Jack Sinclair averages 7 contested possessions per game on his largely outside game.
Lonie averages more than 4 playing as a small forward.
Geary averages 7 while playing his defence role.

We simply don't have an outstanding ball winner.
Capable inside mids. Steele, Steven, Dunstan, Ross, Acres. 9 to 10 contested possessions per game.
Incapable inside mids. Armitage. 6.7

I'm keeping it simple in my head, if they can't win more of the footy than Jack Lonie GTF out of the midfield.

Melbourne have the highest number of contested possessions per game in the contest.
Averages per game:
Oliver 16.
Viney 13.
Brashaw 11.

They only had one player who averaged less than 4 contested possessions and he only played 1 game.
They had 29 players who averaged more than 5 contested possessions, we had 20.

Our team is full of soft little marshmallows who run up making scary faces and sometimes tackle so that another opponent can pick up the ball.

So NO we don't have enough inside mid's, because none of the ones we have are that good.

 

[Mighty_sainter]

Now you are just being blooded minded.
The discussion started with me suggesting we need midfielders and you we saying need to take best available eg Max King.

If they take King how do they improve their midfield?

I listed the Richmond players because they were all drafted as natutal midfielders. We have done everything but in recent years. We seem to have believed we can turn HFF or HBF into mids and the kids we do have are not being played as mids. When Richmond have proven the opposite, that its much better to turn a mid into a flanker where required.

If you think back to your junior years who played in the midfield. Kids who were the best players in the team. The most competitive, the most skilled smartest players and good runners. It doesnt change as they progress through the years and to the draft years the most gifted players find their way into the midfield.

Some where along our drafting and recruiting processes we seem to have overlooked the basics.

I was replying to your comment regarding if you have an elite midfield you can get away with having an average everything else. Witch is not true at all. I listed geelongs midfield as an example of an elite midfield with average players around them. And you were saying that Ablett and Selwood are past it? Not sure if you watch Geelong much but they aren’t past it at all. I’m not against picking a midfielder in this draft as it’s stacked in only pointing out that we have no one in the forward half who can take a clunk like Carlisle can in the back half. Max king on talent and output is a pick 1 in 9 out of 10 drafts. We have taken nothing but midfielders the last 3 years on top of what we already have at some point you have to back in the recruitment of mids? I’m just going off what I’ve seen re king you can’t really describe unless you’ve seen him live. Would like to know anyone else who has seen him lives comments on him.

 

[WhiskySaint]

They need to show more to get in there.
This is exactly why i'm happier for Geary to stay captain than someone like Ross.

Our team has the LOWEST number of contested possessions per game in the contest. Last season we were 10th. ( Seemingly by a number of players just being a bit better at it ).
At the lower end of our list we have 36 games to Clarke, Coffield and Rice. These players averaged less than 4 contested possessions per game.
If that's what they can do they might get away with a forward, rebounding hb or wing role. They need to show a lot more to get in the guts.

Jack Sinclair averages 7 contested possessions per game on his largely outside game.
Lonie averages more than 4 playing as a small forward.
Geary averages 7 while playing his defence role.

We simply don't have an outstanding ball winner.
Capable inside mids. Steele, Steven, Dunstan, Ross, Acres. 9 to 10 contested possessions per game.
Incapable inside mids. Armitage. 6.7

I'm keeping it simple in my head, if they can't win more of the footy than Jack Lonie GTF out of the midfield.

Melbourne have the highest number of contested possessions per game in the contest.
Averages per game:
Oliver 16.
Viney 13.
Brashaw 11.

They only had one player who averaged less than 4 contested possessions and he only played 1 game.
They had 29 players who averaged more than 5 contested possessions, we had 20.

Our team is full of soft little marshmallows who run up making scary faces and sometimes tackle so that another opponent can pick up the ball.

So NO we don't have enough inside mid's, because none of the ones we have are that good.

I agree to a point, and that point being our inside mids are poor. However, for mine the question is (hypothetically) if we did have a strong contested player who can also play on a flank, would they get a run on ball when our current inside mids can’t play on a flank.

The example on BF would be Acres (although who actually knows if he could be a contested pig) playing forward instead of in he centre because our mids can’t rest forward.

I don’t have an answer, just the opinion that having too many mids that can’t rest anywhere other then the bench hurts our rotations and flexibility, and probably the development of kids into mids.

 

[gringo2011]

I was replying to your comment regarding if you have an elite midfield you can get away with having an average everything else. Witch is not true at all. I listed geelongs midfield as an example of an elite midfield with average players around them. And you were saying that Ablett and Selwood are past it? Not sure if you watch Geelong much but they aren’t past it at all. I’m not against picking a midfielder in this draft as it’s stacked in only pointing out that we have no one in the forward half who can take a clunk like Carlisle can in the back half. Max king on talent and output is a pick 1 in 9 out of 10 drafts. We have taken nothing but midfielders the last 3 years on top of what we already have at some point you have to back in the recruitment of mids? I’m just going off what I’ve seen re king you can’t really describe unless you’ve seen him live. Would like to know anyone else who has seen him lives comments on him.

Geelong are good across most lines but need small forwards, outside mids and a good ruck. Their list is still very strong even if they lose some old guys. They are still competitive and won't go anywhere any time soon.

 

[triggering bro]

Geelong are good across most lines but need small forwards, outside mids and a good ruck. Their list is still very strong even if they lose some old guys. They are still competitive and won't go anywhere any time soon.

Massive home ground advantage. Even when they are going poorly they can tick off most games at the cattery as a win. It gives them about 6 wins on the board before the season even starts.

 

[lewdogs]

If we end up having pick 4 it might not be the worst thing... the top 4 seems pretty set, so we just take whoever is left and don't have the pressure of making a big decision

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

I was replying to your comment regarding if you have an elite midfield you can get away with having an average everything else. Witch is not true at all. I listed geelongs midfield as an example of an elite midfield with average players around them. And you were saying that Ablett and Selwood are past it? Not sure if you watch Geelong much but they aren’t past it at all. I’m not against picking a midfielder in this draft as it’s stacked in only pointing out that we have no one in the forward half who can take a clunk like Carlisle can in the back half. Max king on talent and output is a pick 1 in 9 out of 10 drafts. We have taken nothing but midfielders the last 3 years on top of what we already have at some point you have to back in the recruitment of mids? I’m just going off what I’ve seen re king you can’t really describe unless you’ve seen him live. Would like to know anyone else who has seen him lives comments on him.

What makes King so good? Can you give us a review? Who does he play like? Paton? Do you think he's better than Patton?
You saw him live. Was he dominating because of his size? Is he mobile enough to play modern afl?
Did you see Paddy play u18s live? Is he much different? Did you think Paddy would be a star fwd at afl level?
Whats the chances of King making a full recovery and not having knee problems? Is Patton the fwd he was meant to be. Would he be worth pick 4 in this draft?
Many people are saying Kings a good choice. Not many people write about what kind of player he'll become. What are we looking at? Tom Lynch?
Whats the bust value? Is he more of a risk to take at 4 than Smith? Cause we just have to nail this pick.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ScrappyDo]

I'm just putting this up so you boys can shoot it down and I don't have to think about it any more.
I'm seeing some pretty good opportunity for the club to improve it's draft hand, but the talk of a future second for Hanners has me worried that Trouts abacus is still being used work out trade deals.

Looking at 2018 & 2019 drafts, the Swans have access to Nick Blakey who is touted to be bid on before their pick, and Saints have the youngers Voss and Milne next year. Though it's too soon to project their value, it tends to make total 2019 draft points more important to us than eventual pick position, and the Swans could get a 2018 2nd for Rohan, allowing them enough points to get Blakey.

I'd like to see us try and swap our future first, for Hanners + Swans 1st this year, and keep our future 2nd for snaffling Voss as a FS if applicable.
Having 2 picks in the 1st round will be worth gold if we end up able to nab Rankine, because the SA clubs will sell the farm to get him, possibly allowing us to drop to pick 5/6 whilst upgrading our other pick inside the top 10.
So would it be acceptable to swap picks 4 &13, for 5 & 8, whilst keeping our future 2nd?
Something like a Rankin+RCD "v" Smith+Rozee....

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What makes King so good? Can you give us a review? Who does he play like? Paton? Do you think he's better than Patton?
You saw him live. Was he dominating because of his size? Is he mobile enough to play modern afl?
Did you see Paddy play u18s live? Is he much different? Did you think Paddy would be a star fwd at afl level?
Whats the chances of King making a full recovery and not having knee problems? Is Patton the fwd he was meant to be. Would he be worth pick 4 in this draft?
Many people are saying Kings a good choice. Not many people write about what kind of player he'll become. What are we looking at? Tom Lynch?
Whats the bust value? Is he more of a risk to take at 4 than Smith? Cause we just have to nail this pick.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

I just remember all the people saying how Boyd was going to be the GOAT. In the future we were going to be talking about him rather than Plugger or Buddy.

 

[triggering bro]

I just remember all the people saying how Boyd was going to be the GOAT. In the future we were going to be talking about him rather than Plugger or Buddy.

Mental health issues. Also, he plays without intensity. Not suited to a pro environment unless he gets his head right. Perhaps not enough work done on his psych assessment?

 

[CaptainRisky]

Personally i think the club are f----g mental if they use our first pick on a tall , our forward line has so much upside its not funny , I can see Battle turning out to be a very good player and still have high hopes for Marshall , not to mention Members who has already proven he is more than capable and Bruce coming back fresh after his injuries .
There is also Billings , Gresh , Long and Lonie , If anyone thinks that they are not capable of kicking a winning score with some decent delivery into the forward line i would be very surprised , and yes i left Paddy out for a reason .
We need more quality mids that have a point of difference or some mongrel in them , so either a smith for the mongrel or Rozee for class, however i doubt they would use pick 4 on Rozee .
We have all seen how impressive Max looks but the question is does that translate into AFL form when he is up against guys who are just as quick and similar size

 

[CaptainRisky]

I'm just putting this up so you boys can shoot it down and I don't have to think about it any more.
I'm seeing some pretty good opportunity for the club to improve it's draft hand, but the talk of a future second for Hanners has me worried that Trouts abacus is still being used work out trade deals.

Looking at 2018 & 2019 drafts, the Swans have access to Nick Blakey who is touted to be bid on before their pick, and Saints have the youngers Voss and Milne next year. Though it's too soon to project their value, it tends to make total 2019 draft points more important to us than eventual pick position, and the Swans could get a 2018 2nd for Rohan, allowing them enough points to get Blakey.

I'd like to see us try and swap our future first, for Hanners + Swans 1st this year, and keep our future 2nd for snaffling Voss as a FS if applicable.
Having 2 picks in the 1st round will be worth gold if we end up able to nab Rankine, because the SA clubs will sell the farm to get him, possibly allowing us to drop to pick 5/6 whilst upgrading our other pick inside the top 10.
So would it be acceptable to swap picks 4 &13, for 5 & 8, whilst keeping our future 2nd?
Something like a Rankin+RCD "v" Smith+Rozee....

Scrappy , you me and a few other need to get a Go Fund Me page going so we can buy a draft pick for Rozee

 

[borderbarry]

I would use our 3-4 on the best mid available, and trade for another top ten pick to use on Ben King if he is still there.

 

[Impatient Saint]

I was replying to your comment regarding if you have an elite midfield you can get away with having an average everything else. Witch is not true at all. I listed geelongs midfield as an example of an elite midfield with average players around them. And you were saying that Ablett and Selwood are past it? Not sure if you watch Geelong much but they aren’t past it at all. I’m not against picking a midfielder in this draft as it’s stacked in only pointing out that we have no one in the forward half who can take a clunk like Carlisle can in the back half. Max king on talent and output is a pick 1 in 9 out of 10 drafts. We have taken nothing but midfielders the last 3 years on top of what we already have at some point you have to back in the recruitment of mids? I’m just going off what I’ve seen re king you can’t really describe unless you’ve seen him live. Would like to know anyone else who has seen him lives comments on him.

Obviously we have misunderstood each other because I dont disagree with the need of having talls that can take a mark.

I think the players we have in Bruce, McCartin (who the club have backed), Battle and Marshall have as good a future as what King could offer with quality coaching.

I havent seen King live but have seen plenty of footage of him being marked 1 up by under sized backs. There was no sign of any physical dominance apart from height and leep. To suggest he would be a No 1 pick in the last 10 drafts is a long stretch. If he was that good WHY would he get through to us?

 

[Brains Trust66]

I’m not sure of who has what pick now because of potential extra picks but is there any chance that a team, not necessarily Saints of course , would pick both King brothers ? Especially an interstate team to reduce the chance of the players wanting to go back home . Also they get a potentially great chf and a chb as well in one swoop . Great to build a team around , for example Gold Coast ?


Go Saints

 

[triggering bro]

Based on latest rumour of McGovern to GC & pick 2/3 to Adel...

Pick 1 - Carl - Walsh
Pick 2 - Adel - Lukosious
Pick 3 - GC - Max King (I think GC take at least one tall early)
Pick 4 - StK - Rankine

FWIW I don’t think any team from the top 4 trade their pick. But it’s fun to speculate.

 

[lewdogs]

What are peoples thoughts on Bailey Smith?

Looks like the second best out-and-out mid in the draft and very likely to be available at our pick. Sandringham boy.

 

[Mighty_sainter]

Obviously we have misunderstood each other because I dont disagree with the need of having talls that can take a mark.

I think the players we have in Bruce, McCartin (who the club have backed), Battle and Marshall have as good a future as what King could offer with quality coaching.

I havent seen King live but have seen plenty of footage of him being marked 1 up by under sized backs. There was no sign of any physical dominance apart from height and leep. To suggest he would be a No 1 pick in the last 10 drafts is a long stretch. If he was that good WHY would he get through to us?

A freak ACL and a super top end would do it, on form last year he would’ve gone number 1, multiple recruiters mentioned. I agree we need to back players in but paddy has barely showed anything and Bruce is an honest tryer, battle might become a good player but he’s a third tall? Mids come around every year and freaks as good as max don’t, especially if we are in the zone to snag one. Rankine Lukosius Walsh would all be a great getbfor us. It’s purely best available for us no doubt as I’ve said multiple times our whole list is ave we pick best talent available. And pretty much every recruiter has max in the top 3. If he’s at our pick i reckon wel grab him. Coff Clark Gresh Steele have all shown they could be star afl players. Not sure any of our forwards have remotely showed any.

 

[bird_man]

If we end up having pick 4 it might not be the worst thing... the top 4 seems pretty set, so we just take whoever is left and don't have the pressure of making a big decision

There is talk that GC may take Rozee at three to go with Lukosius. If that were to happen we've got a decision to make.

 

[bird_man]

What are peoples thoughts on Bailey Smith?

Looks like the second best out-and-out mid in the draft and very likely to be available at our pick. Sandringham boy.

Some people actually rate him the best mid in the draft. I'm not sure about that but I do think he'll be a gun. Seems the safest bet available at our pick and suits our needs better than anyone.

Verstility, midfider, speed and skill.

And we know he can find the footy, he's not got any real question marks hanging over his head. Something I think all the others do.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Scrappy , you me and a few other need to get a Go Fund Me page going so we can buy a draft pick for Rozee

If only it were that easy CR. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he goes top 5. He's got elite traits out the wazoo, and that particular one of making time slow down.
But that said, Rankine plus another top 15 probably has equal chance of paying off..

 

[hayes]

What are peoples thoughts on Bailey Smith?

Looks like the second best out-and-out mid in the draft and very likely to be available at our pick. Sandringham boy.

I rate him as the best mid in the draft mainly due to being a better contested ball player than Walsh. Pace and skill to go with it as well, absolute gun.

 

[bird_man]