Carey vs Statistical Equals and Betters

[Engimal v3]

Carey by far the best CHF the game has seen. Not a discussion.

 

[RUNVS]

Carey by far the best CHF the game has seen. Not a discussion.

and Dane Rampe is the best ruckman the game has ever seen, and I don't think we need a discussion about that statement either. Lets all just accept it as fact.

 

[Engimal v3]

and Dane Rampe is the best ruckman the game has ever seen, and I don't think we need a discussion about that statement either. Lets all just accept it as fact.

No he's not, and you look like a fool for suggesting that he is.

 

[PhatBoy]

So what you say.
What is the ultimate prize in footy?
That's what.

Determined by 22 blokes, not 1.

So when assessing the quality of a player, unless one happened to win 8 Norm Smith’s or the other just played like a packet of busted frangers every Gf or prelim, it means absolutely f*** all.

The question isn’t ‘who achieved more’ or ‘who has the most in the trophy cabinet wank bank’ it was regarding the better player.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Brereton rode on the coattails of Dunstall's dominance for many years and would naturally would play on the lesser defender from the opposition. Carey would not only play on the oppositions best defender but would often have to deal with 2 or 3 others.

This isn't a debate.

I think Carey was the best player of the past 40 years

However what you said about Brereton - i think is absolute rubbish

You go back to the 1991 season - Brereton didnt play in the 2nd semi - then in the GF he played CHF - against Ashley McIntosh - a tremendous defender - and Brereton absolutely annihilated him - and was so pivotal in Hawthorn winning that GF

I dont think McIntosh was ever beaten in his whole career as badly as he was in that 91 GF

 

[Luv_our_club]

I think Carey was the best player of the past 40 years

However what you said about Brereton - i think is absolute rubbish

You go back to the 1991 season - Brereton didnt play in the 2nd semi - then in the GF he played CHF - against Ashley McIntosh - a tremendous defender - and Brereton absolutely annihilated him - and was so pivotal in Hawthorn winning that GF

I dont think McIntosh was ever beaten in his whole career as badly as he was in that 91 GF

In the 1991 GF........I think McIntosh played most of the game in the first half on Derm but he was inaccurate... he kicked 4 behinds to half time but was winning the contest. WC then moved Worsefold onto Dermott during the 3rd and early 4th quarter. Derm exploed and kicked 4 goals and they moved Mcintosh back on him. McIntosh was a teenager at the time. Derm was experienced GF footballer.

So true i think what you say about Derm being pivotal and McIntosh getting a valuable experience for the rest of his career.

 

[Tas]

Not having a go at Carey's brilliance or place as the best CHF, but the North that Carey walked into with his other mates were a ridiculously talented side who I thought was guaranteed 2 flags if not more. I think most people question whether they under achieved, while still celebrating their achievements. Carey was never a one man team.

I didn't say we were a one man team, there were some good players in the side early on, and there were other players that would eventually become good players, we had some good young forward talent, but the midfield was mediocre and the defence was really poor early. Half the team the players that played in 93 didn't make it to 96. That is a significant turnover in 3 years, something that doesn't happen to a well established side.

 

[Brick Loosener]

Is Carey in Adelaide's team of the century?

 

[LoungeLizard]

Determined by 22 blokes, not 1.

So when assessing the quality of a player, unless one happened to win 8 Norm Smith’s or the other just played like a packet of busted frangers every Gf or prelim, it means absolutely f*** all.

The question isn’t ‘who achieved more’ or ‘who has the most in the trophy cabinet wank bank’ it was regarding the better player.

So you didn't actually read the OP then.
Go read it again, the question was asked.

 

[PhatBoy]

So you didn't actually read the OP then.
Go read it again, the question was asked.

‘Do stats lie? If so how? Was Carey and Brereton that close? Was Sticks that much better than Brereton? Do 8 Grand Finals count for nothing?’

That was the question asked.

What’s your point?

 

[Damon_3388]

I think Carey was the best player of the past 40 years

However what you said about Brereton - i think is absolute rubbish

You go back to the 1991 season - Brereton didnt play in the 2nd semi - then in the GF he played CHF - against Ashley McIntosh - a tremendous defender - and Brereton absolutely annihilated him - and was so pivotal in Hawthorn winning that GF

I dont think McIntosh was ever beaten in his whole career as badly as he was in that 91 GF

McIntosh was also still a few weeks away from his 19th birthday at the time, and was in just his 17th AFL game. Brereton basically beat up on a rookie.

 

[LoungeLizard]

‘Do stats lie? If so how? Was Carey and Brereton that close? Was Sticks that much better than Brereton? Do 8 Grand Finals count for nothing?’

That was the question asked.

What’s your point?

Seriously?
I would say something else, but i don't think you'd understand.

 

[Luv_our_club]

McIntosh was also still a few weeks away from his 19th birthday at the time, and was in just his 17th AFL game. Brereton basically beat up on a rookie.

I posted this above.

In the 1991 GF........I think McIntosh played most of the game in the first half on Derm but he was inaccurate... he kicked 4 behinds to half time but was winning the contest. WC then moved Worsefold onto Dermott during the 3rd and early 4th quarter. Derm exploed and kicked 4 goals and they moved Mcintosh back on him. McIntosh was a teenager at the time. Derm was experienced GF

You could argue Dermott didn't kick a goal on McIntosh that GF. But he was moved off him for whatever reason at half time. When the final siren sounded Dermott spent the first minute talking to McIntosh before starting to celebrate. He has since said that he told McIntosh to keep his head up, he's young, he will be back again, he has a huge future, etc.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Determined by 22 blokes, not 1.

So when assessing the quality of a player, unless one happened to win 8 Norm Smith’s or the other just played like a packet of busted frangers every Gf or prelim, it means absolutely f*** all.

The question isn’t ‘who achieved more’ or ‘who has the most in the trophy cabinet wank bank’ it was regarding the better player.

Really? unless one is best on ground and the other is worst on ground the finals record doesn't matter? I think you mean to say that merely getting into finals doesn't matter.... But how you play when you get there matters a lot.

 

[loki04]

Determined by 22 blokes, not 1.

So when assessing the quality of a player, unless one happened to win 8 Norm Smith’s or the other just played like a packet of busted frangers every Gf or prelim, it means absolutely f*** all.

The question isn’t ‘who achieved more’ or ‘who has the most in the trophy cabinet wank bank’ it was regarding the better player.

The only time a GF could be used is how they performed in it.

So like Dermies 7 goal 89 GF after having his ribs caved in will stand out as an all time legendary feat. G.Abletts 9 up the other end not too shabby either.

Not sure Carey can compete with either of those GF performances.

 

[PhatBoy]

Seriously?
I would say something else, but i don't think you'd understand.

‘Do stats lie.’ That’s what I was referring to.

 

[LoungeLizard]

‘Do stats lie.’ That’s what I was referring to.

Well they don't lie, but they don't tell the full story.

 

[PhatBoy]

Really? unless one is best on ground and the other is worst on ground the finals record doesn't matter? I think you mean to say that merely getting into finals doesn't matter.... But how you play when you get there matters a lot.

Performance IN grand finals absolutely counts, won’t get an argument from me there. But just saying that they played in that many shouldn’t count for much.

 

[FlyHigh18]

Carey isn't in the top 100 for a reason.... because he's in a league of his own! A league of legends composed solely of Carey.

...unlike his commentating career which is also in a league of its own (probably why his popularity is dropping off recently)

 

[A Swallow]

The only time a GF could be used is how they performed in it.

So like Dermies 7 goal 89 GF after having his ribs caved in will stand out as an all time legendary feat. G.Abletts 9 up the other end not too shabby either.

Not sure Carey can compete with either of those GF performances.

Carey had some handy finals appearances:

1994 QF v Hawks - 32 disposals, 10 marks, 4.4
1994 PF v Geelong - 24 disposals, 14 marks, 6.4
1995 QF v Richmond - 22 disposals, 9 marks, 5.4
1996 QF v Geelong - 23 disposals, 10 marks, 3.2
1996 PF v Brisbane - 24 disposals, 14 marks, 3.2
1996 GF v Sydney - 22 disposals, 9 marks, 1.3
1997 QF v Geelong - 23 disposals, 10 marks, 7.0
1997 PF v West Coast - 16 disposals, 5 marks, 2.0
1998 QF v Essendon - 24 disposals, 8 marks, 5.6
1999 QF v Port Adelaide - 24 disposals, 11 marks, 6.2
1999 PF v Brisbane - 17 disposals, 6 marks, 3.0
1999 GF v Carlton - 17 disposals, 5 marks, 2.0

 

[A Swallow]

Carey & Franklin
Tier 2 - Riewoldt & Kernahan
Tier 3 - Pav, Tredrea, Loewe & Brereton
Tier 4 - Schwartz & Brown.

Brereton gets the nod in tier 3 due to his ability to perform in finals, not due to consistency and longevity. There's no way Brown is ahead of Loewe, I just don't rate him as much as people do.

Interesting that you rank these, when in your next post you say you have only seen since 2000. What are you comparing Carey & Franklin on? Riewoldt and Kernahan?

 

[gangsta deluxe]

The only time a GF could be used is how they performed in it.

So like Dermies 7 goal 89 GF after having his ribs caved in will stand out as an all time legendary feat. G.Abletts 9 up the other end not too shabby either.

Not sure Carey can compete with either of those GF performances.

So Tom Boyd belongs in this discussion? Cool!!!!

 

[Snake_Baker]

Carey had some handy finals appearances:

1994 QF v Hawks - 32 disposals, 10 marks, 4.4
1994 PF v Geelong - 24 disposals, 14 marks, 6.4

This was the most commanding display of back to back football I have ever witnessed.

He made a couple of top shelf defenders look like schoolkids in these matches..

 

[Jack Bradley]

Lorrrrdy.

 

[demondavey]

Interesting that you rank these, when in your next post you say you have only seen since 2000. What are you comparing Carey & Franklin on? Riewoldt and Kernahan?

Ok, well I am discussing the players in question which I've quoted. When I say from 2000 onwards I mean that I've watched more of that era. I've obviously seen lots of footage of Derm, Sticks and Loewe, but not as much as the others. Schwartz as well.