Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - Round 22 vs. Geelong, MCG, Fri 11/08, 7:50pm

[Stripes B and W]

Reading about Cameron's form is always a mystery bag to me. After every game I'm always a bit surprised by the reaction. Some days I read he was s**t. Other days I read he was excellent. But to my eyes he's always much the same - ok.

i think its his marking that separates his good from crap games.
He has had 5 games were he has taken one mark, his other 8 games he averages 5 marks.
Also in his last 6 games has had 3 games with zero contested marks.
Largely do agree with you though 36, when not clunking the ball he is just an ok ruckman.

 

[beez]

So i presume it results in more work during the week and therefore fatigue in the last month or so of the season, with the hope that a lessened load in finals improves longevity across four quarters?

Think about it like this:

If you practice doing something every day for six weeks, at the end of the six weeks you are much better at it than when you started. And even if you spend the next two weeks not practicing at all, you are still much better after eight weeks than you were at the beginning.

In a footballing context:

If you spend four weeks in July adding 10-20% to your gym routine every time you go to the gym, at the end of the four weeks you've built a bigger base.
If you spend four weeks in July adding x amount of 500m runs, or sprints or whatever, at the end of the four weeks you've built a bigger base.

Some clubs have the luxury of being able to do this in July/August because of their ladder position or their injury list or the age/experience of the group. I don't know whether Collingwood has done this. All I know is that being able to train harder at certain points in the year transfers into better capacity to play the game for longer. Clubs obviously make a cost/benefit analysis on whether it's going to cost them four points.

And lastly, I wouldn't necessarily say that a lessened load in finals improves the longevity across four quarters (although that would be part of the thinking), I would argue the extra loads done in the second half of the season improve the base fitness levels to improve the longevity across the four quarters.

 

[jathanas]

So i presume it results in more work during the week and therefore fatigue in the last month or so of the season, with the hope that a lessened load in finals improves longevity across four quarters?

The gist of it is that a 4-6 week block of higher training loads will lead to increased fitness. The accumulated fatigue experienced during the block would result in decreased gameday performance but once the athlete has recovered they'll be fitter than they were. Recovery assumes a deload protocol.

I've no idea how this works in practice with AFL level athletes who first must recover from a tough game on the weekend before they're hammered on the training track during the week.

 

[pz5151]

Cox's best games this year have come when he's been the primary ruckman. Cameron has been pretty average the whole year. I don't think we can blame Ash for last weekend considering the ball movement wasn't good. Therefore, I would like to see Cox in for Cameron.

 

[Juan Ide]

IN: Cox, Frampton, Kelly (sub)
OUT: Naicos, Murphy, AJ

 

[leon123]

As a manger you would reward performance via promotion and or compensation increases.
This is no different.

I see and dont disagree with your perspective.

But, i would also see including diversity can lift a teams performance via differing perspectives and outcomes. Horses for courses im guessing

 

[SuperSub17]

Flip Flop David King is like the 5 year old in the school yard that barracks for the team on top of the ladder. He goes with the flavour of the round but contradicts himself. Eg Pies on the brink with injuries, can’t afford anymore???
Carlton missing four or five from their best and his number 3 ranked team.
Ps. Mistakes Murphy hasn’t been too crash hot lately.

King is a clown. Last week he had Brisbane out of his top four seeds entirely after they were pantsed by Gold Coast, now after falling over the line by 3 points against bottom-four Freo he has them second again (and somehow jumping ahead of Carlton in between).

The guy is a walking contradiction.

 

[sr36]

Think like a Coach - you have a game plan that is built around speed and endurance - does Ginnivan fit?
In addition you need versatility in a player to play multiple positions- does Ginnivan fit?

Clearly a Coach would pick WHE as he satisfies all criteria.

You need a few players to be versatile, but not that many.

 

[domus]

The most common sense I've read on bf in at least 2 weeks.

Haven't you been reading my posts!

 

[sr36]

King is a clown. Last week he had Brisbane out of his top four seeds entirely after they were pantsed by Gold Coast, now after falling over the line by 3 points against bottom-four Freo he has them second again (and somehow jumping ahead of Carlton in between).

The guy is a walking contradiction.

I like Kingy, but like all the pundits, they've content to churn out and if they're making big statements it gets a bigger reaction.

 

[KinderSmock]

I'm hearing from my source (so a random Twitter account) that Fin Macrae is back this week from injury.

 

[TheGreatSwan]

Geez, the pressure comes quick from media and fans. I just watched a funeral montage piece on Collingwood on AFL360. Has the world come to a end or have we just lost two games?

"It's not the end of the world we aren't wearing black arm bands for this loss."

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath. Top of the table and highest percentage going into Round 22. A relatively small injury list if you look at the big picture. Daicos and Murphy to return for finals. Breathe. Lets back the boys and coaching team to make the right changes and reset.

We have all been saying for weeks, how do we fit them all? Now there is an opportunity. Perfect time to see where Frampton, WHE, Ginnivan, Cox, Johnson, Markov, Lipinski etc fit into this side, who is the best sub candidate and if any positional changes are needed.

 

[Jen2310]

I'm hearing from my source (so a random Twitter account) that Fin Macrae is back this week from injury.

The injury report does say round 22-23, so its very possible he could be back from injury this week.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

IN: Cox, Frampton, Kelly (sub)
OUT: Naicos, Murphy, AJ

Doubt Kelly would be a chance. He didn't play in the VFL due to an ankle issue apparently.

 

[pz5151]

King is a clown. Last week he had Brisbane out of his top four seeds entirely after they were pantsed by Gold Coast, now after falling over the line by 3 points against bottom-four Freo he has them second again (and somehow jumping ahead of Carlton in between).

The guy is a walking contradiction.

I don’t agree with his writing is off at this stage but he’s one of the better analysts in general. He was also pretty much the only one in the media who predicted the Pies to be contending for the flag pre season.

 

[Ironmonger85]

When/if Cox comes back in he needs to take every single centre bounce then let Darcy do the around the ground stuff. He's clearly too good for VFL level.

 

[Carringbush2010]

When/if Cox comes back in he needs to take every single centre bounce then let Darcy do the around the ground stuff. He's clearly too good for VFL level.

Are you suggesting we rest Cameron fwd? Among our 3 other talls?

 

[Ironmonger85]

Are you suggesting we rest Cameron fwd? Among our 3 other talls?

No just let Cox take the centre bounce then move forward right away(unless Cameron is resting). I think Cox would easily be the better ruckman but he doesn't have the tank.

 

[Carringbush2010]

No just let Cox take the centre bounce then move forward right away(unless Cameron is resting). I think Cox would easily be the better ruckman but he doesn't have the tank.

That would mean continuous rotation on off the bench between the two, interchange cap stifles that a bit.

 

[Sweeetleftfoot]

Football mythology used by coaches (and supporters) to gloss over form slumps?

Avid training watcher Jen says that she hasn’t noticed any changes. So unless it’s happening indoors, or under the cover of darkness……


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I doubt Collingwood would willingly show their hand, lots would play out behind the scenes.

 

[pz5151]

Fly has generally been averse to making a lot of changes in a single week so I doubt it will happen but our lack of goals from crumbing has become a real problem. I haven’t wanted Ginnivan in the side this year but our forward line setup is broken at the moment. Having Hill and Ginnivan at the drop with Johnson, Elliott and Mihocek leading while McStay stays closer to goal seems more effective. We lose a bit of McCreery’s tackling pressure doing that so Elliott will need to step up even more than usual. Beau can play a bit higher up the ground or can rotate through the middle for short periods with Elliott in the absence of Naicos.

 

[Cyclops]

How often do players get injured or have form slumps right after they sign a big contract? All deals to be signed in November in future thx).

Now we get to show our quality. If we are a one man side we deserve to slide right out. McRae gets to show us his quality too. I am hopeful.

Fly has generally been averse to making a lot of changes in a single week ...

Yes but...how about this.

We drop everyone. Field our VFL side vs Geelong and Brisbane. Seniors back in vs Essendon, two werk rest before a big round 24 the another week off.

What coukd go wrong? 2011 all over again! I guess the AFL would fine us for tanking/not playing our best available.

 

[neilk]

IN: Cox, Frampton, Kelly (sub)
OUT: Naicos, Murphy, AJ

Was Kelly out of the VFL due to injury or being held-over?I have read both on here.

 

[LuckyLee]

Fly has generally been averse to making a lot of changes in a single week so I doubt it will happen but our lack of goals from crumbing has become a real problem. I haven’t wanted Ginnivan in the side this year but our forward line setup is broken at the moment. Having Hill and Ginnivan at the drop with Johnson, Elliott and Mihocek leading while McStay stays closer to goal seems more effective. We lose a bit of McCreery’s tackling pressure doing that so Elliott will need to step up even more than usual. Beau can play a bit higher up the ground or can rotate through the middle for short periods with Elliott in the absence of Naicos.

We have one of the smartest and most skilful crumbers in the competition in Sidebottom but we continue to play him on a wing where his impact is diminishing. Sidey reads the play so well, is beautifully balanced and a great kick on both sides of his body. He’s exactly who we need front-and-square to Cox, Checkers and McStay.

If I was coaching, I’d move Sidey forward and put Lipinski on the wing.


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[brysie]

The way I see this playing out is that Markov is an upgrade on Noble

Taller
Stronger
Same Speed ( if not quicker )
Better mark
Disposal wise we don’t lose anything

This in spades. Seems to be a much better fit physically and has a more rounded game.

I'm always nervous when Noble gets the ball if he has to do anything bar kick long to a contest down the line or hit a short sideways kick. His effort and determination is never in question, but that will only take you so far in the AFL.