Preview Changes: R19 vs Dees, Sunday July 23rd 2:50pm ACST @ MCG

[Bearded Clam]

Then why are all the complains coming out after two losses then?


It's clearly about the results.

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Did you come down in the last shower?..

There have been calls in here for months now to swap out guys like murph, mchenry, sloane, sholl etc with some of the sanfl lads..

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I love how our club fills player's heads full of $hit. If you're failing at delivering football performance, it's ok, because if you have a games tally next to your name, guess what, you provide leadership. It's such a cop out, I fully expect dimwits like Nicks to be one arm hugging and one hand cupping balls when they affirm experienced poor performers with this rubbish.

I recall VB banging on about this in his last year when he was undeservedly recalled for his second last game. 'Daniel and I are the 2 leaders back there', mate, you were the single passenger back there, your 'leadership' was less than worthless, which is why even Pyke dropped you again 1 week later.

But according to the rainbow and lollipops brigade, single digit games played guys need come in and deliver football performance straight away.View attachment 1747493

We're an elite off camera team

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I think for a long while we've made good, long term, tough calls with our list management that don't necessarily match up with our weekly selections.

So now we've ended up with a very young squad overall (looking to the future) but with a coaching group that looks towards Saturday. This stretches back decades - even delisting Hart and Torney, so it's not a new thing. More recently seeing players like Douglas/DMac play every game in non-finals years right up until they're delisted.

We're running a young team but thanks to our list management the selectors can't make it older, no matter what they'd prefer. Even then though they've tried desperately despite all semblance of logic needing to be thrown out (T Brown in, Crouch recalled, Himmelberg > Thilthorpe, no rests for Sloane).

There seems to be a disassociation between list management and selection that has to be a deliberate strategy.

Deep down I think that the coaches know we need to revamp our midfield and that Pedlar, Rachele, Soligo should be getting significant time there. We sort of started the season off that way. Sloane off the wing/bench, Keays at half forward, more kids in the middle.

However Keays would rather play midfield. Sloane would rather play midfield. And our coaches would rather play them there. So they look for any excuse to go back to their preferred set up. Keays follows Daicos in there for a few bounces and suddenly it's a permanent thing. Sloane had a big Q4 vs Hawthorn, Soligo's form is a bit patchy and suddenly it's a permanent thing.

"They'll get games when they're ready" has just been replaced by "they'll get midfield time when they're ready."

We might feel internally that our best as it stands is pushing top four/top six. So from that perspective going hard this Saturday is the way to go. I think our away performances throw some doubt up about that however

...

 

[Cap]

Looking at season 2023 from a list management side of things we have wasted so many opportunities;

as a club we got caught up in the hype of finals and put away any planning for the future to be better. we had so many chances to play Nankervis, Borlase, Cook, Hately, Newchurch, Schoenberg [consistently] to see if they were Up to it or should we delist/trade but no we stuck solid with McHenry, Sloane, Murphy, Scholl and Keays week after week.

opportunity missed.

It's hard not to agree with this.

We got a few wins, largely because of the youth and next minute it's Keays, Sloane and Laird in the middle

The Crows absolutely thought finals were realistic and put the rebuild on the back burner

Fortunately for us, in terms of draft pick it's blown up in their face, unfortunately for us it means less game time for players we need to develop and it's 100% the Club doesn't see it that way.

 

[feenix67]

So you're barracking loudly for a 100 pt loss .....why do you even bother to follow the Club ....or do you just enjoy dumping on the Club at every opportunity

You twit, he's not barracking for it. He, like many, want the club to change their conservative policies that lead to exactly the result he describes.

Last week was a clear example of selection dictating outcome. We were forced to play a style that kept the ball in and avoided too much uncontested possession, because of our midfield set up. The result, a close 3 quarters until GWS broke the shackles and flogged us in the last quarter.

You're the one barracking for that mate, not us.

 

[StonesThrow]

I feel like bringing Crouch in is a bad omen right from the get go.

Glad Cook is getting another chance. I like his traits.

 

[MsTopG]

Crouch is proof of the selection strategy. Pure and simple, there is a games played/age floor and losing Laird on top of Dood drops us below it. They're petrified of anything resembling the unknown. They know exactky what Crouch brings, and even though know they've dropped him numerous times for delivering it, they find an enormous amount of comfort in just knowing. If it was another club, every poster on here would be laughing at how hopeless they and how they'll never win a flag with that philosophy. But half the posters in here have been conditioned to it and believe every other club does it too.

The Crouch inclusion reeks of desperation and Nicks being s**t scared of going below a certain threshold for our average games per player. He seems to worry more about that than losing. It also says by extension to Ogilvie that "You are terrible at your job". They would rather bring in a bloke that won't be on our list next year than bring in one of his recruits. Wow. I guess they better move Ogilvie on if that's what they think of him.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You twit, he's not barracking for it. He, like many, want the club to change their conservative policies that lead to exactly the result he describes.

Last week was a clear example of selection dictating outcome. We were forced to play a style that kept the ball in and avoided too much uncontested possession, because of our midfield set up. The result, a close 3 quarters until GWS broke the shackles and flogged us in the last quarter.

You're the one barracking for that mate, not us.

Of course he is .....

 

[Eddie Murphy]

Looking at season 2023 from a list management side of things we have wasted so many opportunities;

as a club we got caught up in the hype of finals and put away any planning for the future to be better. we had so many chances to play Nankervis, Borlase, Cook, Hately, Newchurch, Schoenberg [consistently] to see if they were Up to it or should we delist/trade but no we stuck solid with McHenry, Sloane, Murphy, Scholl and Keays week after week.

opportunity missed.

Nicks prioritised a premature finals appearance to boost his credentials, a gamble that didn’t pay off. It would almost be an honourable gamble if he now conceded it didn’t pay off and started playing kids, but he is now in risk averse desperately trying to retain his job mode.

 

[Crow till I die]

I want a premiership, which requires multiple years in and around the top 4. This coaching group won't deliver it, we need change and if getting hammered is the impetus, then it's hammerings I want. I'm not a happy clapper like you that just believes that everybody at our club is awesome and we can't do better. And nor am I content with winning every other week and maintaining a mathematical chance of making the 8. I'd rather finish last this year, get a gun mid, sack Nix and VB, delist Sloane, Smith and Murphy, wear another year of pain, grab another elite mid and THEN start striving for the 8.

Agree..i honestly believe though if we had 2 more A grade to elite midfielders to go with Dawson and Rachele with our forward line and promising young defense, we could win a flag.

Thats why you will see me happy to sell the farm, trade amid tier player or 2 to do what it takes to try and get said midfielder(s)

 

[NSolis]

Nicks prioritised a premature finals appearance to boost his credentials, a gamble that didn’t pay off. It would almost be an honourable gamble if he now conceded it didn’t pay off and started playing kids, but he is now in risk averse desperately trying to retain his job mode.

What constitutes playing the kids? Is it just giving everyone on the list a go in the AFL team to see how they go? Our team is still pretty young, and the changes this week are no net change to the squad age. Aside from Crouch, the ins are all young (23, 22, 21 and 21).

I feel like sometimes people use 'kids' to mean 'the player I want selected'. Parnell is only 21 but never seems to count as a 'kid' now that he's played ~15 games, whereas Nankervis is 20 and does.

 

[Crow till I die]

Looking at season 2023 from a list management side of things we have wasted so many opportunities;

as a club we got caught up in the hype of finals and put away any planning for the future to be better. we had so many chances to play Nankervis, Borlase, Cook, Hately, Newchurch, Schoenberg [consistently] to see if they were Up to it or should we delist/trade but no we stuck solid with McHenry, Sloane, Murphy, Scholl and Keays week after week.

opportunity missed.

Spot on. Look i was thinking that the Essendon game was a real inflexion point. A win there and then at home to GWS genuinely had us in top 4 territory and you have to take that all day every day. As soon as that rubbish qas dished up against essendon..and we see just how good they have been since themselves, it should have shelved any talk of finals and meant for the last group of games we would see those guys you mention as the rest of the season shpuld have been on development. But no and even now when its really shot..why not ring inthe changesand blood 2 or 3 of the performing kids for the next 4 weeks say to try and unearth more gems. Radical stuff i know

 

[Mattrox]

Did you come down in the last shower?..

There have been calls in here for months now to swap out guys like murph, mchenry, sloane, sholl etc with some of the sanfl lads..

Murphy in particluar has had some good games.

McHenry has done some good things coming in as sub. And McHenry also has not had a gold pass for selection either.

Who are you putting in, instead of these players if they are to never play again?

It's the not dropping Sloane to rest here and there that I'm more worried about. It's our centre square crew that needs attention.

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[Carmo]

You twit, he's not barracking for it. He, like many, want the club to change their conservative policies that lead to exactly the result he describes.

Last week was a clear example of selection dictating outcome. We were forced to play a style that kept the ball in and avoided too much uncontested possession, because of our midfield set up. The result, a close 3 quarters until GWS broke the shackles and flogged us in the last quarter.

You're the one barracking for that mate, not us.

Forced?

We would play an in close contested style no matter what, that's our preferred option. Force would be required for us not to play that style.

 

[Crow_Magnon]

I'm not too disappointed with the changes. Crouch for Laird is not too bad...as I think he could play on a Viney type and not be exposed too much. Happy to see Cook and Schoey in. I think Parnell showed he can play at the level in the few games he has played, although granted his SANFL form hasn't been great this year. I guess he'll go to Pickett possibly (who has been ordinary recently). Not sure of McHenry though...he has not performed when given full games, and should be the sub in my view. All in all not too bad, given the outs (somewhat forced upon us).

 

[BunjiMac]

Nankervis, Cook, Berry, Hately for Sholl, McHenry, Murphy, Schoenberg (when he plays). When Butts went down that was prime opportunity for Borlase. The club had no intention of playing Worrell until Doedee went down and it forced their hand.

Great to see the Happy Clappers are back in force after selection. lol. Dont know why.

Club directive I assume

 

[feenix67]

Forced?

We would play an in close contested style no matter what, that's our preferred option. Force would be required for us not to play that style.

Go back and watch a few early season wins, when we were running through the corridor, hitting up angles, and outnumbering our opponents in uncontested ball. You know, back when the ypungsters were running through the middle.

 

[TheRoo32]

Crazy to think after all the progress it felt like we made...

Tomorrow's starting centre square will probably be Sloane, Crouch, Keays... lol

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Go back and watch a few early season wins, when we were running through the corridor, hitting up angles, and outnumbering our opponents in uncontested ball. You know, back when the ypungsters were running through the middle.

Had nothing to do with our style .....young players fresh & enthusiastic ......round 18, young players are physically & mentally tired

That's led to players "bombing" the ball under pressure .....whereas early they were running on top of the ground, and pin pointing passes

We were praised for the dramatic improvement in our foot skills ......you certainly can't say our footskills are good now

It has nothing to do with any changes in gameplan .....and all to do with the players maintaining composure to execute the plan

St Kilda experiencing same ......running on top of the ground for 2/3rds of the season ......now looking ordinary and beaten, same....their young players have hit the wall, nothing to do with Ross the Boss changing any gameplan

 

[MsTopG]

Crazy to think after all the progress it felt like we made...

Tomorrow's starting centre square will probably be Sloane, Crouch, Keays... lol

That's damning on the club that this is where we are at. 2 cooked players and a reject from the lions in the middle. Fmd.

 

[NSolis]

The idea that our early season wins were driven by youth performances or that we gave them more opportunities and that drove our success is one of the stranger myths I've seen on this board.

Between rounds 3 and 11 we went 6-3, and our losses included the 1 point Collingwood game, so that's easily the best period of the year - let's look at those games.

During that time we averaged 27% of CBAs going to the under-23 crew, primarily Rachele, Soligo and Pedlar, with midfield time moving between them in a managed fashion as we've done throughout the year. Rachele attended 31% of CBAs during these games relative to his season average of 28%, Soligo attended 25%, his season average is 22%, and Pedlar attended 9%, his season average is 14%. Pedlar has had slightly more midfield time since round 11 and Rachele and Soligo slightly less, but it's close. As throughout the rest of the year the main midfield four were Laird (75%), Dawson (75%) and Sloane (40%). Keays did attend a bit less than he has at other times in the year, he was on 25% relative to his year average of 31%.

Bottom line: our midfield mix was basically the same in these 9 games as the rest of the year.

What about the big performers in our wins? Dawson got coaches votes in 7 games, easily our best player as he has been throughout the year. Next in order were Laird, Rankine, Walker and Jones who all got votes 4 times. Then there's Smith, Thilthorpe, O'Brien and Doedee.

What about in the media? Dawson in the bests all 9 games, Laird 7, Walker 5, Rankine 4, then Rachele, Murray, Soligo and O'Brien 3 each.

As we have been throughout the year, we are a team whose success is built on quick ball movement to support a dangerous forward line. Our best players are generally our experienced core of 100+ gamers, as you'd expect, and this year we've had some performance growth driven by guys like Rankine and Jones who are just coming into their best years, plus Dawson moving into the midfield. We definitely did play better early in the season, probably because our young players weren't fatigued, but we still relied on the veterans.

 

[Burtonsgottago]

Parnell.. I really don’t see the point

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Parnell.. I really don’t see the point

Why do you say that ? ......what is it, his 2nd year

 

[kirky]

So if our young players were fatigued, why didn’t we manage them by rotating them with a rest (or manage) earlier in the year?

 

[Samcro24]

So if our young players were fatigued, why didn’t we manage them by rotating them with a rest (or manage) earlier in the year?

If only we played Norf or west coast recently