Traded Confirmed Trade: Lake & Pick 27 to Hawks for Pick 21 & 41

[davey_magik]

Meh, they said the same about David Hale. Even I was against picking that guy up, yet he's been a bargain pickup.

Hale was in his mid 20s when you picked him up. Lake is past 30.

Can understand what Hawthorn are doing but if they don't win a flag in the next year or two it is really going to hurt them in the next 5-10 years.

 

[astro_toby]

Quite a large bulldogs win here. Take a look at the entire concept. Aside from what happens from the actual trade (draft picks)

Advantages:
Losing Lake = losing one of the most paid players at the club, freeing up a lot of salary cap space
Gives more game time to younger, developing key defenders. Two first year players in Talia and Redpath will play twenty-five more games between them next year without Lake.
It could have been worse, we could have lost Lake for less with Free Agency next season, plus his value would be decreased at the end of next year
Disadvatages:
Not there to "nurture" and "teach" our young defenders, though personally I think that's overrated.
Supporters hate the trade, for some reason. Always a shame to see an all-australian go.

Freeing up the salary cap space for what exactly?

All good and well to free up the space - but if you aren't replacing it with something, it means nada on your win / lost column.

On paper the dogs look shoddy as hell next season - you actually finished the year off looking worse than you had started. I'm expecting nothing short of a massive bottoming out/ tankfest / play the kids @ all cost year from the dogs in 2013. As exciting as those times appear "watching the future happening today - expect some severe beatings next year

 

[Pera]

B: Guerra Lake Stratton
HB: Birchall Schoenmakers Gibson

Schoenmakers isn't going anywhere. He is still in our best 22 no matter what some people think. The whole point in getting Lake was to try and help Schoenmakers in defense and take some pressure off him, so Lake now takes the number one forward.

If Schoenmakers is best 22 and playing defence, you still won't win the flag.

Hawthorn list management have spotted a deficiency in the FB line and are trying to rectify it. Schoenmkaers could be going forward or will be fighting for a birth in the 22. You won't win a premiership with him in the side.

 

[WWSD]

The Greens seem to having an impact at Glenferry. They seem to be recycling everything from ex premiers to asylum patients. Still won't win a flag until they can rush behinds again.!

Keep you're trolling to the bay you Muppet!

 

[MC_9]

Sorry, I made a mistake - they actually have the 2nd oldest list in the league.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/numbers-personnel-point-to-the-hawks-20120229-1u3go.html

I would rather be old and good, than young and s**t.

 

[WWSD]

This is outrageous. How is the Premiership runners up able to bolster their team like this? Obviously the salary cap isn't working as it should and there needs to be an investigation into the Hawks, and how they are able to keep all their stars on mega-bucks contracts, AND bring in a key position player from a rival club. For only one first round draft pick as well! The Dogs were reamed! Was surely expecting Buddy to have been part of the trade, anything less and the Dogs have been completely screwed over. Dogs fans, and fans of the integrity of this league, must be fuming.

It's the cost of living thing...

 

[WWSD]

Don't Hodge, Mitchell, Sewell and Burgoyne all turn 30 next year?

No. Hodge turns 29 next year. Sewell turns 29 next year as well. Burgoyne and Mitchell both turn 30 this month.

Hodge 28
Sewell 28
Burgoyne 30 this month
Mitchell 30 this month

 

[Last Line Hero]

I hate when people just refer to a footballers age as though it means they're finished. Lake's 31, O'Keefe just won a NS medal at 31. Lake has looked questionable at times this year but how much of that is physical and how much is just mental - knowing he's just going through the motions at a rebuilding club - is anyone's guess. If he can get fit and have one or two really good seasons, then the Hawk's defence has just gotten amazingly better.

Also, why all the focus on Shoenmakers? People seem to be glossing over the fact that this trade will mean Gibson can finally play third tall - a position he was built for and a position he's never once played in his career. He will be even better, borderline elite, next year.

And where to after that? If they don't win a flag their defence is shot, and the fall from grace will be disasterous. Guerra finished, Gibson nearly finished, Lake finished and Shoenmakers and Stratton back to square one playing the roles they are now having lost 2-3 years development. By then all of Hodge, Sewell, Burgoyne & Mitchell will be well past their best as well. I guess it all depends on what a club values more, some short term loss for a long term gain, or a lot of short term gain for a long term loss. The Hawks would want to hope they can save face with a flag quickly.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Wow big win for Hawthorn and Dogs are able to get some games into youngsters. Bit more pressue on Schoenmakers now you'd think. Depending on matchups isn't an automatic first 22

Shoenmakers is a freak kick and will remain best 22. Lake playing will free him up so one of Shoey, Birch or Suckling will play on the wing, hopefully Birchall. Young would be in strife for mine.

Shoey is fine

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Not a huge loss in this respect. You can't teach his play-reading ability. Lesser players who try to play like Lake would get found in no-mans land most of the time. He got away with it because that was what he was good at.

All he'd teach our young defenders to do it cruise around on a high salary and generally divide the club.

Exactly my point. I've seen people use that argument, and I'm disagreeing with them.

Freeing up the salary cap space for what exactly?

All good and well to free up the space - but if you aren't replacing it with something, it means nada on your win / lost column.

On paper the dogs look shoddy as hell next season - you actually finished the year off looking worse than you had started. I'm expecting nothing short of a massive bottoming out/ tankfest / play the kids @ all cost year from the dogs in 2013. As exciting as those times appear "watching the future happening today - expect some severe beatings next year

With a freed salary cap, we can make a play for practically anyone who's available, we can keep what already good payers we already have. Shame this couldn't happen last year with Callan Ward.

Of course we're looking shoddy for the next few years. We're relying on Roughead and Williams to take forwards, provided Williams stays down back and not forward. Both are too athletic and not strong enough. I don't really rate Markovic and Austin that highly, but it seems like both will be important now, at least until Talia and Redpath come good. We could very well finish wooden spooners next year, even with Port, GWS and GC.

I hope we don't waste all our very good draft picks, just like first round picks Tim Walsh, Farren Ray, Williams and Christian Howard.

 

[ManOfClay]

The difference between a 31 year old Ryan O'Keefe and a 31 year old Brian Lake is about 6 different types of surgery. Plus a 185cm, 80 kilo bloke isn't going to break down as much as a 195cm, 100 kilo bloke.

 

[mt. heart attack]

And where to after that? If they don't win a flag their defence is shot, and the fall from grace will be disasterous. Guerra finished, Gibson nearly finished, Lake finished and Shoenmakers and Stratton back to square one playing the roles they are now having lost 2-3 years development. I guess it all depends on what a club values more, some short term loss for a long term gain, or a lot of short term gain for a long term loss.

Back to square one? Losing 2 - 3 years development? These guys won't stand still for the next three years. I get your point, but you are carrying on like these guys will be wholly stunted by the arrival of Lake. What is the general rule about getting an experienced player into a side, something about teaching the younger guys by example on how to play their position well, etc?

 

[BLPC08]

Hale was in his mid 20s when you picked him up. Lake is past 30.

Can understand what Hawthorn are doing but if they don't win a flag in the next year or two it is really going to hurt them in the next 5-10 years.

Don't worry champ, we'll never be as terrible as your mob.

 

[WWSD]

That is very sensible, however when Nichols and Mcinerny don't play, it all falls apart.

Still offended over that prelim final

 

[manny100]

Short term win for Hawks he stays fit and in form for a couple more seasons and help get a flag.
Long term win for the WB's if they pick wisely come draft day.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Talk about long term planning, NOT. Hawks are desperate for that premiership cup. I'd be amazed if Lake genuinely has a few years left in him. The only way that would be true is if he only plays 10 games per season due to injury / form.

In two years Shoey will be physically mature and after learning from one of the best, ready to do the job.

A club in its premiership window has addressed its biggest weakness beautifully, for very little cost. Cant see the risk at all to be honest, if he doesnt play we miss pick 41....

 

[Superstar swan]

Excellent trade for both teams, wb well and truly rebuilding and lake will help hawks in their quest for a premiership, lake prob has 2 years left and if the hawks don't have one by then they probably won't be in the race anymore, good calculated risk by hawks

 

[Last Line Hero]

Back to square one? Losing 2 - 3 years development? These guys won't stand still for the next three years. I get your point, but you are carrying on like these guys will be wholly stunted by the arrival of Lake. What is the general rule about getting an experienced player into a side, something about teaching the younger guys by example on how to play their position well, etc?

You've invested the past two years in both of them playing key defense for the most part on the opposition's two best forwards. The mere fact Shoenmakers kept getting a game was indicative that Clarkson's intention was to develop them in that role for the next decade and build your defence around them. Suddenly Shoenmakers is demoted to playing on the 2nd string forwards and Stratton moved on to the 3rd-4th tall, whilst Gibson and Lake assume the integral responsibilities. That is isn't teaching or assisting, it's replacing. If Clarkson was smart he'd continue giving Shoenmakers the big jobs, and allow Lake to utilise his ability to read the play as a 2nd tall to support him, otherwise in 2-3 years time both (Statton and Shoey) are going to have to step back up be expected to re- assume roles they have lost 2-3 years they could have had continuing to develop on players who are just going to continue to get older and stronger. Like I said, I guess it just depends what a club values more. Clearly the Hawks at the minute are solely focused on winning a flag now rather than building a product that could still win a flag but last a decade.

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

Hale was in his mid 20s when you picked him up. Lake is past 30.

Can understand what Hawthorn are doing but if they don't win a flag in the next year or two it is really going to hurt them in the next 5-10 years.

Gee, missing out on the players we would have had at pick 41 and 6 spots ahead of our now first pick will really hurt in the next 5-10 years?

Especially given this draft years draft is considered relatively weak in KPP?

Right.....

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

You've invested the past two years in both of them playing key defense for the most part on the opposition's two best forwards. The mere fact Shoenmakers kept getting a game was indicative that Clarkson's intention was to develop them in that role for the next decade and build your defence around them. Suddenly Shoenmakers is demoted to playing on the 2nd string forwards and Stratton moved on to the 3rd-4th tall, whilst Gibson and Lake assume the integral responsibilities. That is isn't teaching or assisting, it's replacing. In 2-3 years time both are going to have to step back up be expected to re- assume roles they have lost 2-3 years they could have had continuing to develop on players who are just going to continue to get older and stronger. Like I said, I guess it just depends what a club values more. Clearly the Hawks at the minute are solely focused on winning a flag now rather than building a product that could still win a flag but last a decade.

One of the stupider posts I've seen..

 

[Messenger]

Lake fits the window the Hawks have now and helps later as cap relief when he comes off the books.

Don't underestimate the role compensation picks play in this trade; with Goddard, Pearce, Chaplin and Byrnes delivering their former teams first or second round picks teams like Hawthorn are finding their purchasing power on draft day severely diluted. The last pick of the second round could well be closer to 50 than 40.

Win-win trade.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

If Schoenmakers is best 22 and playing defence, you still won't win the flag.

Hawthorn list management have spotted a deficiency in the FB line and are trying to rectify it. Schoenmkaers could be going forward or will be fighting for a birth in the 22. You won't win a premiership with him in the side.

Im always amazed how opp supporters can comment so definitively on another teams list when they clearly have no idea at all.

 

[MinerBoy]

Talk about long term planning, NOT. Hawks are desperate for that premiership cup. .

What are other clubs wasting their time doing if not being desperate to win a premiership?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I'm more confident of someone like Bosley taking the number 1 forward in a year or two than Schoenmakers. I think Schoen will always be used against a third tall.

HP, you've shown time and time again to have very little insight into the players that you supposedly follow. Last year it was Jordan Lisle that was going to leap frog Schoenmakers.

 

[Last Line Hero]

Gee, missing out on the players we would have had at pick 41 and 6 spots ahead of our now first pick will really hurt in the next 5-10 years?

Especially given this draft years draft is considered relatively weak in KPP?

Right.....

Who knows? Remember the time a bloke named James Hird went pick 79.