Review Good/Bad v GWS, Round 1

[Vhaluus]

I think Hampton tried to hard to be inside and wasnt running hard enough to get some easy outside ball

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If Hampton plays for us it MUST be inside. We have too much talent on the outside that is better than him.

 

[Pdub]

Cough cough bullshit. I quoted his post and it was on the same page as your post.

Lyons had 20 touches on the weekend, his 2016 season average after coming off an injury interrupted preseason.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/good-bad-v-gws-round-1.1160868/page-18#post-49349772
This comment?

he makes no comment about Lyons game against the Lyons, just that we didn't miss him. You brought Hampton into the argument and wanted to compare Lyons entire 2016 season to Hamptons one game.

 

[RippaRiley43]

DangerSloane judged the team without Lyons he made no comment about Lyons' game against Bris (that I saw). I did because If you are comparing a one-off game for Hampton, you can't give Lyons the benefit that he would have had a game similar to his best game last year, or even season average game if he was in the same position, especially when he had a very average game against a bottom 4 side this weekend.

Well now you are using Lyons' one-off performance last week to suggest we're better off without him. But this is hardly relevant anyway, considering he's playing for a different team with different players, playing a different game style, so of course it will take him time to adjust. It's complex. You can't speculate on how Lyons would have done for us last week. You're right that he could have played badly, but it could equally be argued that he would have played well since he would have been more familiar with our team and game style for example.

It's not even an either/or proposition, since both players were on our list last season. Had we kept Lyons, and if both were playing well enough, both would have played the Giants last week.

Give it half a season at least before comparing how Hampton and Lyons affect our team's performance and some more clear patterns emerge about how we play with Hampton this year compared to Lyons last year, and even then it's difficult because there's more going on than at football clubs between years than just the departure/arrival of players (organic growth yada yada yada). People were arguing early in the year last season that we were better off without Dangerflog.

 

[Pdub]

Well now you are using Lyons' one-off performance last week to suggest we're better off without him. But this is hardly relevant anyway, considering he's playing for a different team with different players, playing a different game style, so of course it will take him time to adjust. It's complex. You can't speculate on how Lyons would have done for us last week. You're right that he could have played badly, but it could equally be argued that he would have played well since he would have been more familiar with our team and game style for example.

It's not even an either/or proposition, since both players were on our list last season. Had we kept Lyons, and if both were playing well enough, both would have played the Giants last week.

Give it half a season at least before comparing how Hampton and Lyons affect our team's performance and some more clear patterns emerge about how we play with Hampton this year compared to Lyons last year, and even then it's difficult because there's more going on than at football clubs between years than just the departure/arrival of players (organic growth yada yada yada). People were arguing early in the year last season that we were better off without Dangerflog.

I didn't bring Hampton into the conversation, Elite did. I only compared Lyons' one-off performance because he was being compared to Hampton's one-off performance.

I don't think anyone could see us kick 140 points against a team that was top 4 last season and say we missed Lyons.

 

[Bicks]

If Hampton plays for us it MUST be inside. We have too much talent on the outside that is better than him.

Have you ever watched Hampton closely at GWS or as a junior.........on that post I very, very much doubt it.
A good start might be to go back to the game 2 years ago where he pantsed Eddie Betts..

 

[Vhaluus]

Have you ever watched Hampton closely at GWS or as a junior.........on that post I very, very much doubt it.
A good start might be to go back to the game 2 years ago where he pantsed Eddie Betts..

Bicks have you watched any game of him recently? We clearly are developing him as a midfielder and have been since recruiting him.

You're bringing up his junior games? are you serious? That is utterly irrelevant. Who cares what he did at 16?

As a midfielder he is behind most of our other outsiders.

 

[RippaRiley43]

I didn't bring Hampton into the conversation, Elite did. I only compared Lyons' one-off performance because he was being compared to Hampton's one-off performance.

I don't think anyone could see us kick 140 points against a team that was top 4 last season and say we missed Lyons.

We'll see how things go without Lyons, not that he's the single cause of all our success or problems for that matter. It was an excellent result on Sunday but it could just be a one-off performance which is no guarantee of future results.

For what it's worth, at this stage I think the absence of Thompson makes more difference than the lack of Lyons, since Thommo is so slow and unaccountable defensively, while Lyons is more accountable and can hit the scoreboard.

 

[Bicks]

Bicks have you watched any game of him recently? We clearly are developing him as a midfielder and have been since recruiting him.

You're bringing up his junior games? are you serious? That is utterly irrelevant. Who cares what he did at 16?

As a midfielder he is behind most of our other outsiders.

Are you seriously judging him on one AFL game in a mid role.
Did you not watch him in the JLT Pre-season series.
What don't you get that Lyons would still be on our list if Pyke saw his skill set essential to his game plan going forward??
As to your assertion we have been developing Curtly as a midfielder since we recruited him, that is complete bunkum, go back and check the club video interviews with Curtly and Pyke this pre-season. The videos are all on Channel Crow on Youtube.

 

[Vhaluus]

Are you seriously judging him on one AFL game in a mid role.
Did you not watch him in the JLT Pre-season series.
What don't you get that Lyons would still be on our list if Pyke saw his skill set essential to his game plan going forward??
As to your assertion we have been developing as a midfielder since we recruited him, that is complete bunkum, go back and check the club video interviews with Curtly and Pyke this pre-season. The videos are all on Channel Crow on Youtube.

He played mid the majority of the SANFL last year.

Why are you bringing up Lyons? we're discussing Hampton. Attempt to deflect here ignored.

 

[Brenton Davy]

Lyons was pretty high up in metres gained last year.

But they were slow metres. That was our main problem in recent years and Sundays performance shows that slow metres don't cut it any more (just look at Freo).

Lyons is a great fit for Gold Coast, but not for us

 

[Bicks]

He played mid the majority of the SANFL last year.

Why are you bringing up Lyons? we're discussing Hampton. Attempt to deflect here ignored.

 

[Elite Crow]

Well now you are using Lyons' one-off performance last week to suggest we're better off without him. But this is hardly relevant anyway, considering he's playing for a different team with different players, playing a different game style, so of course it will take him time to adjust. It's complex. You can't speculate on how Lyons would have done for us last week. You're right that he could have played badly, but it could equally be argued that he would have played well since he would have been more familiar with our team and game style for example.

It's not even an either/or proposition, since both players were on our list last season. Had we kept Lyons, and if both were playing well enough, both would have played the Giants last week.

Give it half a season at least before comparing how Hampton and Lyons affect our team's performance and some more clear patterns emerge about how we play with Hampton this year compared to Lyons last year, and even then it's difficult because there's more going on than at football clubs between years than just the departure/arrival of players (organic growth yada yada yada). People were arguing early in the year last season that we were better off without Dangerflog.

I think you summed it up very well.

How anyone can after one game suggest we didn't miss Lyons is not only guessing what his impact would have been but is making an assumption the rest of the year will pan out the same.

When we lose clearances and lose the game, I suppose Lyons would have made no difference then either.

 

[Elite Crow]

But they were slow metres. That was our main problem in recent years and Sundays performance shows that slow metres don't cut it any more (just look at Freo).

Lyons is a great fit for Gold Coast, but not for us

Slow metres? Were his kicks slow?

 

[Bicks]

He played mid the majority of the SANFL last year.

Why are you bringing up Lyons? we're discussing Hampton. Attempt to deflect here ignored.

 

[Brenton Davy]

Slow metres? Were his kicks slow?

They did tend to b e a bit loopy, yes.

 

[Vhaluus]

"Trying to learn the roles of the midfield, Pyke has been good enough to give me a crack in there"

Did you even bother to watch the video? He spent the entire time talking about how they're trying to get him into the midfield.

You just made my argument for me.

 

[LiquidCrow]

20 touches of what? I watched the game and he was virtually invisible in a loss, to the expected worst side of 2017.

Lyons had 20 touches, with 6 clangers (worst in the team) at 55% DE (second worst). Vaguely remember a report that he had an Achilles injury during the pre-season, so may have been a little underdone.

Regardless, I can't see any real point in comparing him to Hampton after only Round 1.

 

[jirkago]

If Hampton plays for us it MUST be inside. We have too much talent on the outside that is better than him.

He should be both, we beat GWS without much influence from him. He has talent and could use his pace on the outside as well

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[DangerSloane]

Slow metres? Were his kicks slow?

Just booting it as far as you can gains metres.

Overrated statistic.

 

[Vhaluus]

He should be both, we beat GWS without much influence from him. He has talent and could use his pace on the outside as well

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Well sure. Sloane does plenty of outside as well, but he's still classified as one of our inside mids.

 

[Bicks]

I think you summed it up very well.

How anyone can after one game suggest we didn't miss Lyons is not only guessing what his impact would have been but is making an assumption the rest of the year will pan out the same.

When we lose clearances and lose the game, I suppose Lyons would have made no difference then either.

What it gets down to is are we backing in Don Pyke and his game plan and structures, you're either on board or not, he simply didn't see Lyons as essential to his plans going forward or he'd have offered a better contract and he'd still be on our list. I'm on board.

IMO Gold Coast recruited Lyons as back up whilst elite young mids Jack Bowes, Will Brodie, Ben Ainsworth [Mid/forward] and Brad Scheer get up to speed, even the highly talented Jack Scrimshaw is touted as a future midfielder and on the chance David Swallow doesn't come up this year after some serious injury concerns.

I'll predict Lyons will only be a depth player at the GCS as early as next year as he would have been at Adelaide this year especially if David Swallow gets back to his best after several years of injury woes. Do you think Jarryd Lyons will play every game at the GCS this season injury permitting?? I don't.

Gary Ablett
David Swallow
Touk Miller
Aaron Hall
Pearce Hanley

 

[Vhaluus]

What it gets down to is are we backing in Don Pyke and his game plan and structures, you're either on board or not, he simply didn't see Lyons as essential to his plans going forward or he'd have offered a better contract and he'd still be on our list. I'm on board.

IMO Gold Coast recruited Lyons as back up whilst elite young mids Jack Bowes, Will Brodie and Brad Scheer get up to speed, even the highly talented Jack Scrimshaw is touted as a future midfielder and on the chance David Swallow doesn't come up this year after some serious injury concerns.

I'll predict Lyons will only be a depth player at the GCS as early as next year as he would have been at Adelaide this year especially if David Swallow gets back to his best after several years of injury woes. Do you think Jarryd Lyons will play every game at the GCS this season injury permitting?? I don't.

Gary Ablett
David Swallow
Touk Miller
Aaron Hall
Pearce Hanley

Don Pyke does not make list management decisions.

Neil Craig didn't want to trade for Tambling but we did it anyway.

 

[jirkago]

Well sure. Sloane does plenty of outside as well, but he's still classified as one of our inside mids.

Thats it. If Hampton get some easy ball, it would give him confidence

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[Bicks]

"Trying to learn the roles of the midfield, Pyke has been good enough to give me a crack in there"

Did you even bother to watch the video? He spent the entire time talking about how they're trying to get him into the midfield.

You just made my argument for me.

Are you serious, that's exactly the point I was making, THIS PRE-SEASON.. 2016/17
You asserted we have been developing him as a mid ever since we recruited him which is total bullshit.

 

[Roovolution]

Hampton will be a million times better than Lyons in a fairly short space of time. His upside is huge whereas we know exactly what we'll get with Lyons.

By getting rid of slow players like Lyons and Thompson (hopefully) and injecting quicker players we have made our midfield much much better. I'm over the moon that Pykey has seen the problem and addressed it rather than just served up the same midfield as last year. We now have a legit chance at a flag.