Review Good/Bad v GWS, Round 1

[Hodgy]

I'm really not sure why people feel the need to make a Lyons versus Hampton debate. Hampton was clearly going to be in our best side when fit. The real question for me about Lyons would be if we had 2 injuries to midfielders now would we prefer to see Lyons come in or Thompson/Gore/Yoelman? All good sides need depth and Lyons is a first 22 standard player that I would prefer to see on our list than GC's. That doesn't mean that we need to compare him with Hampton though, we could have had both.

 

[Elite Crow]

Lyons had 20 touches, with 6 clangers (worst in the team) at 55% DE (second worst). Vaguely remember a report that he had an Achilles injury during the pre-season, so may have been a little underdone.

Regardless, I can't see any real point in comparing him to Hampton after only Round 1.

Equally it's pointless comparing whether we miss Lyons after one game.

 

[Vhaluus]

Are you serious, that's exactly the point I was making, THIS PRE-SEASON.. 2016/17
You asserted we have been developing him as a mid ever since we recruited him which is total bullshit.

He played mifield minutes more and more as last years SANFL went on. You're the one who follows this s**t closely and you know he did.

 

[Bicks]

Don Pyke does not make list management decisions.

Neil Craig didn't want to trade for Tambling but we did it anyway.

For starters Neil Craig didn't like trading PERIOD.

Are you seriously telling me Pyke has no input into the type of players we trade, draft and delist with his game plan and structures in mind?

Maybe you didn't notice but the 2 midfielders we delisted/traded Grigg and Lyons had one thing in common.....LACK OF GENUINE PACE. IMO the only reason Thommo was retained for this season was a mix of back up and loyalty.....significant in that he would appear to me to be transitioning into a coaching role given he is working with the young midfielders.

 

[Elite Crow]

Look my comment wasn't meant to be a comparison of Lyons versus Hampton. I referred to Hampton because he had an average to poor game and the comment was made whether we missed Lyons.

It's only reasonable to compare Lyons performances to our midfielders, in particular who is new to our midfield. It's laughable the suggestion that Hamptons game would have been better than what Lyons would have produced, so on that one game Lyons would have been better.

Will that continue? Hopefully not and Hampton kicks on because I like him.

But the post which started this was premature, it was only one game.

 

[Vhaluus]

For starters Neil Craig didn't like trading PERIOD.

Are you seriously telling me Pyke has no input into the type of players we trade, draft and delist with his game plan and structures in mind?

Maybe you didn't notice but the 2 midfielders we delisted/traded Grigg and Lyons had one thing in common.....LACK OF GENUINE PACE. IMO the only reason Thommo was retained for this season was a mix of back up and loyalty.....significant in that he would appear to me to be transitioning into a coaching role given he is working with the young midfielders.

and in case you didn't notice most of the pace we have in the team currently was recruited prior to Pykes arrival.

Our list management, of which Pyke is now one part, clearly decided to go down the route of speed before Pyke even arrived at the club.

 

[Godallblighty]

I'm really not sure why people feel the need to make a Lyons versus Hampton debate. Hampton was clearly going to be in our best side when fit. The real question for me about Lyons would be if we had 2 injuries to midfielders now would we prefer to see Lyons come in or Thompson/Gore/Yoelman? All good sides need depth and Lyons is a first 22 standard player that I would prefer to see on our list than GC's. That doesn't mean that we need to compare him with Hampton though, we could have had both.

This. The Lyons vs Hampton discussion is misdirected. The issue is we ditched a perfectly capable midfielder and kept Thommo, who is finished. We weakened our overall list there for what looks like loyalty or sentiment.

 

[Vader]

This. The Lyons vs Hampton discussion is misdirected. The issue is we ditched a perfectly capable midfielder and kept Thommo, who is finished. We weakened our overall list there for what looks like loyalty or sentiment.

I'd call it a nil-all draw. Thommo is unlikely to play much of a role in 2017, and I don't think Lyons would have either.

The club had a surplus of slow inside midfielders - Grigg was delisted, Kerridge is now a fringe player at Carlton, Lyons was traded to Gold Coast and will be a fringe player there before long, CEY is unlikely to be offered a new contract at the end of this year. That just leaves Matt Crouch, who was clearly the pick of the litter as far as that group is concerned.

The focus now seems to be on pace, with the recruitment and development of a large group of relatively quick players. Whether those quicker, and by definition more outside, players have the ability to win enough contested ball - on a consistent basis - remains to be seen. Either way, it was this trend which saw the exodus of Lyons, and this trend which would have limited his prospects had he not been traded.

 

[Niximus]

I'm really not sure why people feel the need to make a Lyons versus Hampton debate. Hampton was clearly going to be in our best side when fit. The real question for me about Lyons would be if we had 2 injuries to midfielders now would we prefer to see Lyons come in or Thompson/Gore/Yoelman? All good sides need depth and Lyons is a first 22 standard player that I would prefer to see on our list than GC's. That doesn't mean that we need to compare him with Hampton though, we could have had both.

If he is first 22 standard, would he be satisfied being depth (and paid as a depth player)?

 

[Bicks]

and in case you didn't notice most of the pace we have in the team currently was recruited prior to Pykes arrival.

Our list management, of which Pyke is now one part, clearly decided to go down the route of speed before Pyke even arrived at the club.

Hardly surprising when even the supporters and former players in the media kept highlighting that for a number of years. Pyke, Walsh and David Teague all came via the WCE also so that's probably pertinent also.

 

[Vhaluus]

Hardly surprising when even the supporters and former players in the media kept highlighting that for a number of years. Pyke, Walsh and David Teague all came via the WCE also so that's probably pertinent also.

Ok good so we're done pretending this is some Pyke driven genius revolution?

 

[Godallblighty]

I'd call it a nil-all draw. Thommo is unlikely to play much of a role in 2017, and I don't think Lyons would have either.

The club had a surplus of slow inside midfielders - Grigg was delisted, Kerridge is now a fringe player at Carlton, Lyons was traded to Gold Coast and will be a fringe player there before long, CEY is unlikely to be offered a new contract at the end of this year. That just leaves Matt Crouch, who was clearly the pick of the litter as far as that group is concerned.

The focus now seems to be on pace, with the recruitment and development of a large group of relatively quick players. Whether those quicker, and by definition more outside, players have the ability to win enough contested ball - on a consistent basis - remains to be seen. Either way, it was this trend which saw the exodus of Lyons, and this trend which would have limited his prospects had he not been traded.

I'm happy with the emphasis on pace and I don't overrate Lyons. But injuries always play a role in a season. If M Crouch got injured right now, I know who I'd rather bring in out of Lyons and Thommo.

 

[Bicks]

If he is first 22 standard, would he be satisfied being depth (and paid as a depth player)?

That's the point most seem to miss, Lyons was offered a contract commensurate with the role the club saw him playing going forward, clearly that did not suit Lyons or his management.

 

[Vader]

I'm happy with the emphasis on pace and I don't overrate Lyons. But injuries always play a role in a season. If M Crouch got injured right now, I know who I'd rather bring in out of Lyons and Thommo.

I think you do overrate Lyons, but that's neither here nor there.

Losing Mrouch would definitely hurt. They've made a conscious decision to limit the number of pure inside mids on our list, and with Brouch & CEY on the injury list we really don't have many other options. That's the gamble they've chosen to make, in search of making us a faster team which is more capable on the "outside" of the contest.

 

[Godallblighty]

I rate Lyons ahead of 2017 Thompson, but behind the Crouches. CEY is a bit of an unknown. The others don't really come into it.

 

[Paladin]

He played mid the majority of the SANFL last year.

Why are you bringing up Lyons? we're discussing Hampton. Attempt to deflect here ignored.

Thats not true Hampton missed most of last year with injury. He played a quarter or 2 of midfield minutes in the SANFL finals.

 

[Vhaluus]

Thats not true Hampton missed most of last year with injury. He played a quarter or 2 of midfield minutes in the SANFL finals.

I obviously didn't mean we had him in the midfield while he was injured. Didn't really think that had to be stated and yet here we are.

 

[Paladin]

I obviously didn't mean we had him in the midfield while he was injured. Didn't really think that had to be stated and yet here we are.

Your statement was false in every way and yet here we are again.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

It was very visible in the GC vs Bris game, Brisbane came out running and GC could do nothing about it. Lucky for GC, Brisbane's runners are young and it was hot so they slowed down as the game went on.

Interestingly GC recruited Lyons & Barlow... & we could have had both, but have decided to use quicker players instead.

 

[Godallblighty]

Interestingly GC recruited Lyons & Barlow... & we could have had both, but have decided to use quicker players instead.

How does Thompson fit into the 'quicker players' thing?

 

[Bicks]

Thats not true Hampton missed most of last year with injury. He played a quarter or 2 of midfield minutes in the SANFL finals.

Becoming a habit of his to rewrite history...

 

[Vhaluus]

Becoming a habit of his to rewrite history...

Oh really?

I haven't done it here and I challenge you to find where I've done it in the past.

 

[Bicks]

How does Thompson fit into the 'quicker players' thing?

I seem to recall the coaches saying Thommo was not guaranteed game time in the AFL this season and IMO it was as much about loyalty to a great warrior of the club and Thommo transitioning into a coaching role moreso than a playing role. Almost all of the midfielders especially the younger ones interviewed over the pre-season said they were working with Thommo on midfield structures etc. Once Thommo gets fit and healthy I still think he's handy depth should we need to call on him at some stage.

 

[Bicks]

Oh really?

I haven't done it here and I challenge you to find where I've done it in the past.

Yeah really, and here and now, at best Hampton played very limited midfield time in the Snaffle last year and IT IS only this pre-season he has trained with the midfield group full time.

 

[Vhaluus]

Yeah really, and here and now, at best Hampton played very limited midfield time in the Snaffle last year and IT IS only this pre-season he has trained with the midfield group.

No no you've claimed a pattern. I've challenged you to cite ANOTHER incident.

I will concede that numbers wise he did not spend the majority of his time in the midfield in the SANFL last year. But it was clearly a target to transition him to midfield and his time increased there the more games he played. Hampton himself has also talked about asking our coaches last year to give him a shot in the midfield.