News Hardwick Quits as coach of Richmond: Press Conference at 10:30am Tuesday

[mrposhman]

Geelong will hit the wall with the current old guys some time soon. And we will look to bring in quality mature talent. But I'm confident we won't overpay either in salary or draft picks to bring in experienced players or be so unbalanced in list development.

But most importantly we've invested heavily in the draft recently. We have 7 top 25 draft picks from the last 4 drafts on our list. Our injury issues have given them a chance to get experience with 35 games played by under 21 year olds so far this year.

You might've missed it but due to injuries Geelong had the 5 youngest players starting on the field against Richmond and the younger sub. We didn't take our chances but it wasn't a particularly one sided game. We're developing kids while still being 4th favourite for the flag so if we get over our injury issues the footy public think we're still a real chance at the flag this year.

Contrast that to Richmond who have far fewer early draftees over that time and only had 16 games played by under 21s so far this year. Yet the season off already a write off. And this is despite giving up this year's 1st rounder and benefiting from Taranto and Hopper already being in your team.

You are trying to make this a Geelong v Richmond issue for some reason but its not all that different.

You've used arbitrary cutoffs to make your point, but on your games played if you extend that to 22 instead of 21. Richmond would be at 46 to the Cats 41 games as we have had 30 games from 22 year olds to your 6.

Likewise you have used top 25 to suit your point, but again over the last 4 drafts the draft picks aren't the different.

Geelong have the following picks.
De Koning -19, Bruhn - 12, Henry - 17, Holmes - 20, Conway - 24, Knevitt - 25, Clark - 8
Richmond have the following out to 30 (as you chose 25 to suit your argument, I'll select 30 to show there isn't as big a quantum difference as you make out)
Dow - 21, Gibcus - 9, Brown - 17, Sonsie - 28, Banks - 29, Clarke 30,

So 7 compared to 6. Its not that different. You've got more top 20 but its not hugely different.

Our list builds are very similar, we have 28 players 26 and under, you guys have 27.

I'm not sure why you are making out like this is some kind of dick measuring contest. We are both in very similar positions, due to being at the top for a significant period of time, marginal differences between the lists but they are both almost identical list builds but go ahead and make it more than it is.

 

[nut]

2009-2016
Dimma spins his wheels, almost gets fired.

2017
Crag McRae joins Richmond. Their gamestyle changes.

2017-2020
Richmond win Three flags.

2020
Craig McRae leaves Richmond.

2021-2023
Richmond become irrelevant again. Dimma resigns.

Coincidence?

Except McRae started at Richmond in 2016

Wikipedia is wrong …

 

[imwinningagreatwall]

What’s he do in the mean time though? Far too much of a gap between now and when the team kicks off.

Theres lots to do before R1 2027-28 for tasmania.
The coach would need to be picked 1-2-3+ years out. They need to prepare early

 

[Footy Smarts]

Likewise you have used top 25 to suit your point, but again over the last 4 drafts the draft picks aren't the different.

Geelong have the following picks.
De Koning -19, Bruhn - 12, Henry - 17, Holmes - 20, Conway - 24, Knevitt - 25, Clark - 8
Richmond have the following out to 30 (as you chose 25 to suit your argument, I'll select 30 to show there isn't as big a quantum difference as you make out)
Dow - 21, Gibcus - 9, Brown - 17, Sonsie - 28, Banks - 29, Clarke 30,

So 7 compared to 6. Its not that different. You've got more top 20 but its not hugely different.

It's funny how when you pick a cut-off point that suits Richmond and it still comes out less than Geelong but you claim it's "not much different".

Just look at the group of players themselves to see how different it is:

Holmes and De Koning are by far the 2 best performed at the moment and both look like stars in the making.

Gibcus and Clark are both early picks who are obviously very talented but yet to prove much.

Bruhn and Henry are inconsistent but are playing AFL at a solid level and showing a lot of talent.

Knevitt, Sonsie and Clarke are all similar picks in the same draft that look like they might have something but are still a fair way off.

Brown, Banks and Conway haven't been sighted yet. And Dow is being labelled a bust by your own fans (recruiting Hopper and Taranto in his favoured position isn't the best sign of confidence).

Geelong clearly have 5 of the best 6 prospects and the only 2 you would put your house on being long-term a-graders.

And you'll miss your pick this year. Ouch!

 

[mrposhman]

It's funny how when you pick a cut-off point that suits Richmond and it still comes out less than Geelong but you claim it's "not much different".

Just look at the group of players themselves to see how different it is:

Holmes and De Koning are by far the 2 best performed at the moment and both look like stars in the making.

Gibcus and Clark are both early picks who are obviously very talented but yet to prove much.

Bruhn and Henry are inconsistent but are playing AFL at a solid level and showing a lot of talent.

Knevitt, Sonsie and Clarke are all similar picks in the same draft that look like they might have something but are still a fair way off.

Brown, Banks and Conway haven't been sighted yet. And Dow is being labelled a bust by your own fans (recruiting Hopper and Taranto in his favoured position isn't the best sign of confidence).

Geelong clearly have 5 of the best 6 prospects and the only 2 you would put your house on being long-term a-graders.

And you'll miss your pick this year. Ouch!

Its funny how you are challenged and then change your argument.

Your argument was and I quote:
"But most importantly we've invested heavily in the draft recently. We have 7 top 25 draft picks from the last 4 drafts on our list. "

That was your point, that you'd invested heavily in the draft, and I was showing that our investment in the draft was as much of yours. Yes some picks don't make it, others are gold. Its way too early to be comparing the quality of the last 4 years drafts as players develop at different stages.

The difference between 7 picks inside 25 and 6 picks inside 30, is not all that different which is the point I was making. You are basing your assessment on an argument that Geelong are better than Richmond and trying to suit the narrative, when our list builds are in almost identical proportions. I could make a claim that the players we have between 23 and 26 are better than yours, or that there is a reason why Holmes and De Koning are the best performed to date (they were drafted earliest in years and are the oldest of those picks inside 30) but ultimately its all symantics.

We have both been at the top for a while, relatively starved of top draft picks and made some errors with others (thats drafting for you), but our list builds are in almost exactly the same place. Only time will tell on who has drafted and matured the better talent but thats not a discussion for now, but whatever go for it.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Its funny how you are challenged and then change your argument.

Your argument was and I quote:
"But most importantly we've invested heavily in the draft recently. We have 7 top 25 draft picks from the last 4 drafts on our list. "

That was your point, that you'd invested heavily in the draft, and I was showing that our investment in the draft was as much of yours. Yes some picks don't make it, others are gold. Its way too early to be comparing the quality of the last 4 years drafts as players develop at different stages.

The difference between 7 picks inside 25 and 6 picks inside 30, is not all that different which is the point I was making. You are basing your assessment on an argument that Geelong are better than Richmond and trying to suit the narrative, when our list builds are in almost identical proportions. I could make a claim that the players we have between 23 and 26 are better than yours, or that there is a reason why Holmes and De Koning are the best performed to date (they were drafted earliest in years and are the oldest of those picks inside 30) but ultimately its all symantics.

We have both been at the top for a while, relatively starved of top draft picks and made some errors with others (thats drafting for you), but our list builds are in almost exactly the same place. Only time will tell on who has drafted and matured the better talent but thats not a discussion for now, but whatever go for it.

It's funny how defensive Richmond fans get when you question the Taranto and Hopper deals. That's all I did after recognising Hardwick's brilliance. I think letting him commit so much of the Tigers' future to those 2 was a massive error.

And all I got in response was how Richmond were doing exactly what Geelong did and you're still claiming you're in the same position.

If you want to believe paying more, both in terms of picks and length of contract, for Taranto and Hopper than Geelong did for Cameron and Dangerfield is really just the same thing go right ahead. Maybe looking at where you are on the ladder despite them playing well might give you more of a clue?

And if you think SDK and Holmes are just standard run of the mill draftees who will be matched by Gibcus, Sonsie, etc in a year or two go right ahead. But I've seen a lot of draftees in the 15-30 range come and go and not many are consistently receiving coaches votes or holding down full back in a premiership team at the age of 20.

Maybe it'll all work out. Maybe Hopper and Taranto will both be top 10 mids. Maybe the few high picks you had will all come good or you'll find guns with later picks. But history suggests that's very unlikely and it's much more likely that you've just pushed out the cliff like Hawthorn did.

 

[mrposhman]

It's funny how defensive Richmond fans get when you question the Taranto and Hopper deals. That's all I did after recognising Hardwick's brilliance. I think letting him commit so much of the Tigers' future to those 2 was a massive error.

And all I got in response was how Richmond were doing exactly what Geelong did and you're still claiming you're in the same position.

If you want to believe paying more, both in terms of picks and length of contract, for Taranto and Hopper than Geelong did for Cameron and Dangerfield is really just the same thing go right ahead. Maybe looking at where you are on the ladder despite them playing well might give you more of a clue?

And if you think SDK and Holmes are just standard run of the mill draftees who will be matched by Gibcus, Sonsie, etc in a year or two go right ahead. But I've seen a lot of draftees in the 15-30 range come and go and not many are consistently receiving coaches votes or holding down full back in a premiership team at the age of 20.

Maybe it'll all work out. Maybe Hopper and Taranto will both be top 10 mids. Maybe the few high picks you had will all come good or you'll find guns with later picks. But history suggests that's very unlikely and it's much more likely that you've just pushed out the cliff like Hawthorn did.

Sorry but where have I said anything of what you are saying?

• Where have I defended the Hopper / Taranto deals here
• Where have I said that SDK and Holmes are run of the mill players

Geez you don't half have a chip on your shoulder about trying to make this into a pissing contest.

Facts are, you claimed that you had invested way more heavily in the draft over the last 4 years and thats untrue.
You seem to think our list demographics are totally different yet we have 28 players 26 and under and you have 27.
Our list demographics are almost identical.

On SDK vs Gibcus, they will both be excellent defenders for a long time. Bear in mind SDK broke into your first team at 21, Gibcus did it at 18. Thats not saying he will be better but you also can't claim he won't get to the same level. Remember Gibcus has only just turned 20, he's 2 years behind SDK, obviously its more likely SDK will be further developed.

You've got a ripper in Holmes, no debate there, all I'm saying is they were drafted in earlier drafts than the bulk of our draftees from the last 4 years and its no coincidence that they are more entrenched in your first team and have played more games.

But get up on your soap box if you want.

 

[Beerfish]

Welcome to East Germany - Geelong V Richmond - GO!

In the interests of keeping your back and forth shite fights out of match threads so normal people can talk. Keep it clean and above the shorts Off topic rubbish clogging up match threads will be moved here, knock yourselves out.

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Footy Smarts]

• Where have I defended the Hopper / Taranto deals here

I don't know if you specifically have. But a number of Richmond fans were very defensive claiming that it was "exactly what Geelong did" to win a flag. If you think it was a massive gamble that leaves your list very midfield heavy and history suggests won't pay off then we agree.

• Where have I said that SDK and Holmes are run of the mill players

"There is a reason why Holmes and De Koning are the best performed to date (they were drafted earliest in years and are the oldest of those picks inside 30)"

I'll leave you to it.

 

[mrposhman]

I don't know if you specifically have. But a number of Richmond fans were very defensive claiming that it was "exactly what Geelong did" to win a flag. If you think it was a massive gamble that leaves your list very midfield heavy and history suggests won't pay off then we agree.



"There is a reason why Holmes and De Koning are the best performed to date (they were drafted earliest in years and are the oldest of those picks inside 30)"

I'll leave you to it.

On the former. We won't be left midfield heavy from this, our drafting has not been great for midfielders in recent times so adding Taranto and Hopper to the list won't make us midfield heavy at all. In fact the only midfielders that are definite best 22 that are 26 and under are Taranto, Hopper and Bolton. It was a trade that needed to happen. I don't compare any trades to other clubs, but it needed to happen for us. Taranto was a no brainer (and for 14 and 22) the deal wasn't costly, very happy with the deal. The Hopper one probably attracts more scrutiny being as it involved a future 1st (ended up 34 and a future 1st), but you clearly don't know our list very well if you think it leaves us "midfield heavy".

On the latter point, no idea how you came to that conclusion.

Just saying that they are best performed to date because of their age is a fact. Not sure how you can debate that. Whether our players get to that point who knows, no-one does at this stage, but those 2 are older than the draftees we've had over the last 4 years so its a no brainer that they are ahead of ours. Like I say whether ours get anywhere near those levels remains to be seen, but it doesn't mean that I'm saying they are run of the mill players.

You seem to read way more into what people say than is meant.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Just saying that they are best performed to date because of their age is a fact. Not sure how you can debate that. Whether our players get to that point who knows, no-one does at this stage, but those 2 are older than the draftees we've had over the last 4 years so its a no brainer that they are ahead of ours.

I'm not sure how old you think Holmes is? He's 20. He's 1 year younger than Dow and less than a year older than the others. He's been best performed to date because he's just miles better (same as comparing him to Bruhn, Henry or Knevitt who he's miles better than).

 

[Drought Break]

Always liked Hardwick.

Any club would be wrapt with a coach that plays a part in 3 flags.

 

[Daka]

Geelong will hit the wall with the current old guys some time soon. And we will look to bring in quality mature talent. But I'm confident we won't overpay either in salary or draft picks to bring in experienced players or be so unbalanced in list development.

But most importantly we've invested heavily in the draft recently. We have 7 top 25 draft picks from the last 4 drafts on our list. Our injury issues have given them a chance to get experience with 35 games played by under 21 year olds so far this year.

You might've missed it but due to injuries Geelong had the 5 youngest players starting on the field against Richmond and the younger sub. We didn't take our chances but it wasn't a particularly one sided game. We're developing kids while still being 4th favourite for the flag so if we get over our injury issues the footy public think we're still a real chance at the flag this year.

Contrast that to Richmond who have far fewer early draftees over that time and only had 16 games played by under 21s so far this year. Yet the season off already a write off. And this is despite giving up this year's 1st rounder and benefiting from Taranto and Hopper already being in your team.

We have invested heavily in the draft as well some of our players have not been played yet, Hardwick leaving opens it he would have found it hard dropping senior players that took him to premiership glory.

 

[Yoda_]

Does this have anything to do with the breakdown in his marriage after the misdemeanours he was caught out doing with players &/or staff last year?

Seems like the ultimate cover up that he was ‘burnt out’ half way through a year and is far to jovial to be leaving.

 

[Maddo11]

Does this have anything to do with the breakdown in his marriage after the misdemeanours he was caught out doing with players &/or staff last year?

Seems like the ultimate cover up that he was ‘burnt out’ half way through a year and is far to jovial to be leaving.

Midwife crisis. Quit your family, divorce your job

Has he bought a motorbike?

 

[Ralll]

2009-2016
Dimma spins his wheels, almost gets fired.

2017
Crag McRae joins Richmond. Their gamestyle changes.

2017-2020
Richmond win Three flags.

2020
Craig McRae leaves Richmond.

2021-2023
Richmond become irrelevant again. Dimma resigns.

Coincidence?

2009-2013
Dimma starts magnificently building year on year to first finals.

2014-2016
Panicks after '13 EF loss and implements shitty defensive overbearing game plan.
Admits it at the end of '16 and famously vows to "let the boys play again".

2017-2020
Richmond win Three flags.

2021-2023
Richmond become irrelevant again. Dimma resigns.

Coincidence?

I agree Dimma is no genius and needs good support around him, and McRae and Leppa were important.
But McRae stole Richmonds game plan, he didn't invent it.
Dimma had already signaled the shift back to the pre '14 attacking game plan before they arrived.

 

[Truetiger]

Just couldn’t handle those long road trips to Marvel Stadium anymore.

He was happy to have Adelaide host the 2017 GF though

 

[Forever North]

Massive respect to Damian. Turned the laughing stock and basket case that was Richmond into the powerhouse they are today. Nothing tactically sophisticated with his gameplan but by the time he got worked out they had 3 flags. Glad he left the way he did, no acrimony, no bullshit, no scandal. A very classy exit yesterday.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Massive respect to Damian. Turned the laughing stock and basket case that was Richmond into the powerhouse they are today. Nothing tactically sophisticated with his gameplan but by the time he got worked out they had 3 flags. Glad he left the way he did, no acrimony, no bullshit, no scandal. A very classy exit yesterday.

Great post mate. Thanks for steering the thread back onto topic and away from all that other gobshyte.

 

[Stabby McGee]

Massive respect to Damian. Turned the laughing stock and basket case that was Richmond into the powerhouse they are today. Nothing tactically sophisticated with his gameplan but by the time he got worked out they had 3 flags. Glad he left the way he did, no acrimony, no bullshit, no scandal. A very classy exit yesterday.

Agreed. Lot of rubbish in this thread, He wasn't blessed with a team of champions like Geelong or Brisbane had that had stars on every line.
He had a team that had a couple of champions, a bunch of very good players and a bunch of guys you'd struggle to place 20 years from now, but who played their roles perfectly to win 3 flags and should have had a 4th but for a bad day at the office in 18.
That is the mark of a legendary coach.
2 as a player, and 3 as a coach says to me he can leave the game whenever he wants, for whatever reason he wants, with a reputation that will stand the test of time, no matter how hard the peanut gallery would like to smear mud on it.

 

[brutus76]

Take 16 months off then he can take his pick of jobs late next year.

Richmond need Mrs Hardwick back in some capacity as since she left they've done not so good

 

[nineteen eighty]

Massive respect to Damian. Turned the laughing stock and basket case that was Richmond into the powerhouse they are today. Nothing tactically sophisticated with his gameplan but by the time he got worked out they had 3 flags. Glad he left the way he did, no acrimony, no bullshit, no scandal. A very classy exit yesterday.

I don't disagree with you and the gameplan was devised to hopefully maximise the list talent he had on his hands at the time. 2016 we tried to play to a cute and skilled based game plan. Preseason '17 the coaches changed our game plan to a "simplistic", move it forward at all cost, high pressure game.

What we didn't know until the other day when I heard Rance interviewed was the defensive structure they put in place and which EVERYONE in the media and all us punters were oblivious to. At least I had never heard of it until the other day. Pivotal to this defensive structure was Cotchin, Riewoldt and Rance who would set up at every stoppage and then everyone would set up around them. How did I miss this if it was in the media since '17?*

So on the surface it looked simplistic and compared to others teams game plans it was. There was more to it though. Note that it did take a little while for the players to gell around it.

* this is a dig to all the so called experts in the media.

 

[nineteen eighty]

What I don't think is fully appreciated is the effort to change a long term losing culture to a winning one. It's why he needs to be highly regarded in the same way Leigh Mathews broke the drought at Collingwood in 1990 and whoever finally leads Carlton out of the quagmire

From day 1 of his joining the Tiges, he put in place a team ethos of always congratulating each other when they did something good. It wasn't all about kicking goals. If you remember back to those early days, we weren't kicking too many goals. But he made sure that the players celebrated other little things. Smothers, tackles, good play etc... It was all about getting them to feel a win other than on the scoreboard.

You're spot on!

 

[tastiger]

Lol why are Geelong supporters in here giving details of their rebuild??? Rent free

On VOG-L09 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Sinjin Smith]

Trade of coaches will be fine with us

One can win premierships
The other can’t make a grand final.

Hinkley as a coach if you just want to be successful during the home and away season

Ill take that.