Free Agency Joe Daniher [RFA to Brisbane for 1st round compensation pick]

[LukeParkerno1]

Perfect situation for us would be Sydney finishing around 10th. If that's the case they probably have to trade their first round pick anyway

No we don’t. We need the first round points for Gulden/Campbell anyway. Daniher isn’t worth a first if he hasn’t played for the best part of 3 seasons.

 

[eth-dog]

No we don’t. We need the first round points for Gulden/Campbell anyway. Daniher isn’t worth a first if he hasn’t played for the best part of 3 seasons.

So you'd keep a first rounder that will be eaten up by Campbell anyway? Because it's so hard stockpiling points in trade periods with the addition of trading for future picks nowadays... I'm pretty sure we'd be willing to offer points for this year in trade for next year if your list manager needed them.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

So you'd keep a first rounder that will be eaten up by Campbell anyway? Because it's so hard stockpiling points in trade periods with the addition of trading for future picks nowadays... I'm pretty sure we'd be willing to offer points for this year in trade for next year if your list manager needed them.

Yes I’d keep our first this year. Who knows when these bids come everyone said Tom Green would be budded early, barely went in the top 10. Daniher isn’t worth a first, it was sickening how much we stupidly offered last year let alone doing the same thing this season. Free Agency would be a good business decision but honestly I’d rather just avoid him anyway. He’d need to play some games this season.

 

[eth-dog]

Yes I’d keep our first this year. Who knows when these bids come everyone said Tom Green would be budded early, barely went in the top 10. Daniher isn’t worth a first, it was sickening how much we stupidly offered last year let alone doing the same thing this season. Free Agency would be a good business decision but honestly I’d rather just avoid him anyway. He’d need to play some games this season.

Yeah... That's kinda stupid. If you keep your first round pick clubs are going to bid on him before it just so they can force you to trade it anyway. Unless you're planning to move up to before a bid is realistically placed.

As for Daniher not being worth a first rounder, laughable. Glad to know that your opinions on trading are still the same even after you bailed.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Assuming The Swans bottom 6 like many are predicting, and Daniher puts a price on his head like Jack Martin, he probably would manage to find his way to The Swans in the PSD, esp given his run of injuriea.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Yeah... That's kinda stupid. If you keep your first round pick clubs are going to bid on him before it just so they can force you to trade it anyway. Unless you're planning to move up to before a bid is realistically placed.

As for Daniher not being worth a first rounder, laughable. Glad to know that your opinions on trading are still the same even after you bailed.

It’s not stupid, it’s smart. If we trade up so be it. What we have to do is have enough assets so we don’t screw ourselves in 2021. We are only in the early stages of a mini rebuild. Rome isn’t built in a day so to speak.

Daniher 3 years ago was worth more than he is now. He’s been injured for the best part of 3 years with no timeframe as to a return. You should have taken the obscene overs you were offered last year

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

It’s not stupid, it’s smart. If we trade up so be it. What we have to do is have enough assets so we don’t screw ourselves in 2021. We are only in the early stages of a mini rebuild. Rome isn’t built in a day so to speak.

Daniher 3 years ago was worth more than he is now. He’s been injured for the best part of 3 years with no timeframe as to a return. You should have taken the obscene overs you were offered last year

That obscene overs you talk about hasn’t been confirmed by Essendon or Sydney the supposed trade was pick 9 (a pick that Sydney didn’t have mind you) for Joe and that’s it.

Deal would have been done on the last day if Sydney offered pick 5 imo

 

[Bjchan13]

That obscene overs you talk about hasn’t been confirmed by Essendon or Sydney the supposed trade was pick 9 for Joe and that’s it.

Deal would have been done on the last day if Sydney offered pick 5 imo

9 and a future 1st was confirmed as Sydneys final offer. Dodo said from the start he wanted to keep Joe and hope that he gets fit and stays, but that if a deal was to be reached, it had to involve a player. Both Sydney and Essendon went through the motions in negotiations in my opinion. Neither club was overly keen on getting a deal done.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

That obscene overs you talk about hasn’t been confirmed by Essendon or Sydney the supposed trade was pick 9 (a pick that Sydney didn’t have mind you) for Joe and that’s it.

Deal would have been done on the last day if Sydney offered pick 5 imo

That proposed pick 9 was and still is obscene overs for a bloke that is still injured. Would have cost us goodness knows how much in the cap and Papley. Ridiculous overs and I’m glad your list manager said no. Pick 5 lol that was so not happening. Stephens is perfect for our side.

 

[briztoon]

So you'd keep a first rounder that will be eaten up by Campbell anyway? Because it's so hard stockpiling points in trade periods with the addition of trading for future picks nowadays... I'm pretty sure we'd be willing to offer points for this year in trade for next year if your list manager needed them.

I believe it will be harder to stockpile points this year if list are reduced and the draft is shorter.

Clubs won’t be able to take four or five picks to the draft just for the points. Especially if lists are cut back to 35 players.

Looking at what teams have what picks this year, few teams have the required picks with enough points and potential desire to trade up for a top 10 pick.

Nor should a club sell a future first round pick, for a first round pick this year.

Certainly consider trading a future projected late second round pick for a second round pick this year.

Nor would I wouldn’t consider trading a future projected early second round pick.

Not unless you’re a team with highly rated kids in next years draft. (cough*Collingwood*cough).

Next years draft looks to be stronger and deeper than this years draft. So teams like Sydney and the Bulldogs should value next years picks and be willing to pay up this year if possible.

 

[citizen-erased]

Assuming The Swans bottom 6 like many are predicting, and Daniher puts a price on his head like Jack Martin, he probably would manage to find his way to The Swans in the PSD, esp given his run of injuriea.

I imagine any and all deals would be thrashed out prior to FA period ending.
If Essendon and the Swans can't agree, we'd just let him sign as FA if we can't keep him.

Can't see PSD happening. Assuming there is time for the normal FA/Trade period with this 17 week season + finals still happening, and prep for season 2021 being impact one way or another
Might see a combined FA/Trade period this year.

 

[Shai]

I imagine any and all deals would be thrashed out prior to FA period ending.
If Essendon and the Swans can't agree, we'd just let him sign as FA if we can't keep him.

Can't see PSD happening. Assuming there is time for the normal FA/Trade period with this 17 week season + finals still happening, and prep for season 2021 being impact one way or another
Might see a combined FA/Trade period this year.

Do you really think he is going, regardless, at the end of this year? Would be if the reasons cited were still viable.

Hardly played a game in a couple of years, obviously Syd needed him this season & he was into the idea of that.

Maybe he gets back, plays well & decides to stay. Maybe he doesn't and his value is basement.

 

[citizen-erased]

Do you really think he is going, regardless, at the end of this year? Would be if the reasons cited were still viable.

Hardly played a game in a couple of years, obviously Syd needed him this season & he was into the idea of that.

Maybe he gets back, plays well & decides to stay. Maybe he doesn't and his value is basement.

No idea, probably comes down to sydney reigniting their interest, which might come down to any number of factors

Would prefer we hold him as we dont have a lot of forwards.
But if he did go it wont be via the psd

 

[FreeAgent1]

No idea, probably comes down to sydney reigniting their interest, which might come down to any number of factors

Would prefer we hold him as we dont have a lot of forwards.
But if he did go it wont be via the psd

I completely agree he shouldnt go via PSD. But i think Dodo will want to save face, and if he is only getting an end of first compo i can see him throwing a hail mary and stating Don's will match in order to force trade.

If this happens i cant see a trade happening as swans wouldnt offer more than the Compo and Dodo wont acceppt less.

Then either re-signs or retires......

 

[eth-dog]

I completely agree he shouldnt go via PSD. But i think Dodo will want to save face, and if he is only getting an end of first compo i can see him throwing a hail mary and stating Don's will match in order to force trade.

If this happens i cant see a trade happening as swans wouldnt offer more than the Compo and Dodo wont acceppt less.

Then either re-signs or retires......

I can see you guys offering more than the compo. Especially if you have a reasonable year and your first pick falls later than an expected bid for Campbell. I'm sure in that case we'd do a future for current year pick swap so you can get "points back".

 

[TheKITC]

I can see you guys offering more than the compo. Especially if you have a reasonable year and your first pick falls later than an expected bid for Campbell. I'm sure in that case we'd do a future for current year pick swap so you can get "points back".

I know we all speculate on here and at the end of the day, what we say doesn't change anything... but in my opinion, Essendon (and their fans) are absolutely dreaming if they think that they will get anything better than a second round pick.

Bloke hasn't played more than a handful of games in 3 years, has been medically mismanaged, will not receive a long or lucrative contract (more likely have performance, game triggers built in), is uphappy at current club and will be out of contract. In what world does that = first round pick(s)? It just doesn't, even for someone as rare a talent that has shown as much as Joe has. He will leave and it will pale in comparison to what was offered last year.

Whether it's trade or compo, a mid second would be it and am happy to be quoted on it. Only those drinking the Essendon Kool Aid (many) would disagree. My opinion of course...

 

[eth-dog]

I know we all speculate on here and at the end of the day, what we say doesn't change anything... but in my opinion, Essendon (and their fans) are absolutely dreaming if they think that they will get anything better than a second round pick.

Bloke hasn't played more than a handful of games in 3 years, has been medically mismanaged, will not receive a long or lucrative contract (more likely have performance, game triggers built in), is uphappy at current club and will be out of contract. In what world does that = first round pick(s)? It just doesn't, even for someone as rare a talent that has shown as much as Joe has. He will leave and it will pale in comparison to what was offered last year.

Whether it's trade or compo, a mid second would be it and am happy to be quoted on it. Only those drinking the Essendon Kool Aid (many) would disagree. My opinion of course...

Or you're letting the hatred of my club that you've demonstrated many times cloud your judgement.

 

[ant555]

I know we all speculate on here and at the end of the day, what we say doesn't change anything... but in my opinion, Essendon (and their fans) are absolutely dreaming if they think that they will get anything better than a second round pick.

Bloke hasn't played more than a handful of games in 3 years, has been medically mismanaged, will not receive a long or lucrative contract (more likely have performance, game triggers built in), is uphappy at current club and will be out of contract. In what world does that = first round pick(s)? It just doesn't, even for someone as rare a talent that has shown as much as Joe has. He will leave and it will pale in comparison to what was offered last year.

Whether it's trade or compo, a mid second would be it and am happy to be quoted on it. Only those drinking the Essendon Kool Aid (many) would disagree. My opinion of course...

I do not disagree with the pick range but he has not been medically mismanaged. That part is not factual. He played on with the injury without telling the medical staff how bad it was believing he was doing the best thing for the side by trying to push through. That is what completely ****ed him.
I do tend to agree that unless he gets on the park and does something rather good than talk of first round picks is not really in the ball park as if he leaves as a FA he may well be looking at no more than $500k. I am not even sure he gets on the field anytime soon and the scenario that may play out is Essendon matches any offer as it will not be high.

 

[ant555]

Or you're letting the hatred of my club that you've demonstrated many times cloud your judgement.

And Eth you may have the blinkers on. For him to get into first round pick range he would have to play some massive games if he gets back onto the park which is still very much 50/50 given he has not gone past 75% training load yet.

 

[ant555]

I imagine any and all deals would be thrashed out prior to FA period ending.
If Essendon and the Swans can't agree, we'd just let him sign as FA if we can't keep him.

Can't see PSD happening. Assuming there is time for the normal FA/Trade period with this 17 week season + finals still happening, and prep for season 2021 being impact one way or another
Might see a combined FA/Trade period this year.

I can see us matching the offer if it is around $500k for 2 or 3 years.

 

[citizen-erased]

I can see us matching the offer if it is around $500k for 2 or 3 years.

Agree. At 500k we'd be getting 2nd rd at best compo. Given our history with 2nd rd picks, may as well roll the dice amd match.

 

[TheKITC]

Or you're letting the hatred of my club that you've demonstrated many times cloud your judgement.

You may see it as hatred, I consider myself a fairly reasoned poster which I'm happy for people to disagree with. You can critique what I say all day but I reject that I'm biased because I hate Essendon, go for Carlton etc etc.

Any rebuttal on what I've actually said or just more interesting in trying to denigrate my opinion by casting doubt on my character / supposed biases?

I do not disagree with the pick range but he has not been medically mismanaged. That part is not factual. He played on with the injury without telling the medical staff how bad it was believing he was doing the best thing for the side by trying to push through. That is what completely f’ed him.
I do tend to agree that unless he gets on the park and does something rather good than talk of first round picks is not really in the ball park as if he leaves as a FA he may well be looking at no more than $500k. I am not even sure he gets on the field anytime soon and the scenario that may play out is Essendon matches any offer as it will not be high.

That's fine, I have made my points on the injury management situation with Joe very clear earlier in this thread and I don't deviate from those thoughts.

I think it's an interesting point to discuss whether or not Essendon match an offer. I'd speculate that he would be offered somehwere in that 500k range over two years, then have triggers based around games played to get into the 3rd and 4th seasons with more money. What does it look like if the Dons match? Joe at that point would have indicated he wants out two years in a row and Essendon would have attempted to hold him both times. I don't think the optics of the club doing that in multiple ways both within and outside the club bode very well moving forward, but Dodoro and co. have shown they will march to the beat of their own drum.

IF those things happen and Joe still rejects Essendons offer, he goes into the draft pool yes? Surely that just isn't good for any party, although we all kind of thought the Port/Stevens situation was a thing of the past then Gold Coast brought it back with Jack Martin...

 

[Bjchan13]

Last year when Joe asked to be traded to Sydney ill speculate that Joe was offered a 4 year deal for at around 700k. The reason i believe this is because Tom Papley is contracted for 4 years and Sydney were essentially trying to swap Papley for Joe. I dont believe they are necessarily paying Papley anywhere near that but the bulk of Joes contract was going to come from Papley leaving. They were shedding Zak Jones salary as well and topping up with some cheaper options in Lewy Taylor and Sam Gray. Joe at the time had 1 year left on his contract with Essendon and uncertainty on his playing future. Although he cited his reason for leaving as the Melbourne bubble i believe it was more about securing his future. This trade period will be completely different. Id be very surprised if Joe wanted to leave for a lowball Sydney offer that Essendon would not only match but beat moneywise. Thats if they believe he can play footy again. Id also be surprised if Sydney actually try to recruit him again without showing he was back to his best. And if Joe does show he's back to his best then he'll expect Sydney to cough up for him to move. All this is me purely speculating.

 

[ant555]

You may see it as hatred, I consider myself a fairly reasoned poster which I'm happy for people to disagree with. You can critique what I say all day but I reject that I'm biased because I hate Essendon, go for Carlton etc etc.

Any rebuttal on what I've actually said or just more interesting in trying to denigrate my opinion by casting doubt on my character / supposed biases?



That's fine, I have made my points on the injury management situation with Joe very clear earlier in this thread and I don't deviate from those thoughts.

I think it's an interesting point to discuss whether or not Essendon match an offer. I'd speculate that he would be offered somehwere in that 500k range over two years, then have triggers based around games played to get into the 3rd and 4th seasons with more money. What does it look like if the Dons match? Joe at that point would have indicated he wants out two years in a row and Essendon would have attempted to hold him both times. I don't think the optics of the club doing that in multiple ways both within and outside the club bode very well moving forward, but Dodoro and co. have shown they will march to the beat of their own drum.

IF those things happen and Joe still rejects Essendons offer, he goes into the draft pool yes? Surely that just isn't good for any party, although we all kind of thought the Port/Stevens situation was a thing of the past then Gold Coast brought it back with Jack Martin...

Do you want some inside information about his injury or do you just want to go on with an uninformed opinion ?
You can check out my history of posting little snippets on the Essendon board. I can tell you now that the reason Joe is so bad now was he did not give the whole picture to the medical staff. He did not tell them how sore he was pulling up and it was considered he was simply taking a bit of time to hit form again. Not sure how the staff grossly miss treated him if they did not have the full picture.
On top of that his brother retired because he could not get over chronic groin issues and Joe had a few minor patches of groin issues when he was at Calder.

I can say now that I am not a typical Essendon poster. I do not defend Hird and I think we pretty much got what we should have for bringing in Dank when even a small amount of background checking would have found he was run out of the NRL for his witch doctor practices. I felt sorry for the players as they only followed the advice they where given.

I will finish with i do not think he will get back to anywhere near what he could have been and we should have pressed harder to trade him last year. I know from personal experience what OP is like as I have suffered it for 15 years or so now. In fact It would not shock me if he did not play again.

 

[TheKITC]

Do you want some inside information about his injury or do you just want to go on with an uninformed opinion ?
You can check out my history of posting little snippets on the Essendon board. I can tell you now that the reason Joe is so bad now was he did not give the whole picture to the medical staff. He did not tell them how sore he was pulling up and it was considered he was simply taking a bit of time to hit form again. Not sure how the staff grossly miss treated him if they did not have the full picture.
On top of that his brother retired because he could not get over chronic groin issues and Joe had a few minor patches of groin issues when he was at Calder.

I can say now that I am not a typical Essendon poster. I do not defend Hird and I think we pretty much got what we should have for bringing in Dank when even a small amount of background checking would have found he was run out of the NRL for his witch doctor practices. I felt sorry for the players as they only followed the advice they where given.

I will finish with i do not think he will get back to anywhere near what he could have been and we should have pressed harder to trade him last year. I know from personal experience what OP is like as I have suffered it for 15 years or so now. In fact It would not shock me if he did not play again.

I appreciate that you have this opinion and am prepared to take you somewhat at face value on that. What I will say is that I think it is disingenuous to regard mine as uninformed, in fact I went into pretty in depth detail about how I arrived at my opinion; using media statements/opinions, medical quotes, common sense and timeline evidence.

For every inside info claim that proves to be correct there are probably 50 (or more) that are bogus on this website; don't take that as a personal jibe but more of a reality from my experience. Definitely not having a go at you as a poster or lumping you in with what I've described as the 'Essendon Kool Aid' drinkers like the types you identified around Essendon's recent history. Quite happy to be having a reasonable discussion... I will look at a couple of your posts when I have time later in the evening, any help where to start specifically rather than trawling through thousands of posts?

On the mismanagement side of things, be interested to hear your thoughts (apologies if you've covered it previously) on the medical team playing Joe with a 4-5 day turnaround after ANZAC day last year especially after a long absence from the game. Can you really let them off the hook on that one based on 'Joe telling him he was fine, hiding the pain from them?' I don't think that was best practice and have specifically spoken to two of my friends about Joe (a physio and a sports mechanics/science trained professional) that outrightly said you just wouldn't do that, why not give an extra 7 days of recovery regardless of what the player reports? I find that extremely hard to swallow, given Essendon should have top flight medical staff. This is coupled with extensive media criticism around him playing. Is everyone wrong and Essendon medical team were right?

I too have had OP (pretty mild by the sounds compared to you and probably Joe) and I used to struggle walking normally 2-3 days after playing underage football, let alone playing with 3 days of total recovery at best... A real sticking point for mine.