Mega Thread Non-Freo AFL Discussion 2023

[Nothing]

Kind of like our change from 2011 to 2012.

 

[Dockeroo]

Interesting take. Did you have them as the most talented after the 2022 season heading into 2023. Because on paper their list was weaker last year with Taranto, Bruhn, Hill and Hopper out, and only Bedford in, than the year before.
Something else might have made them formidable in 2023. I wonder what?

Tom Green and a rejuvenated Cogs are better than Taranto and Hopper, Cameron had pushed Cogs out of the middle to try and stop those two from leaving, he really was a useless coach.
Callaghan is an upgrade on Bruhn and Bedford is a different type of forward to Hill, and probably more what they needed as they have Toby as the dangerous small and needed the elite pressure Bedford brings.

Edit: and yes the coach helped a lot.

Think pk75 nailed it here. The improvement in players such as Green, Callaghan (to be fair those two would be improving stars under any coach) and a few others was so notable.
Coniglio went from looking like a washed up has been to an AA level player.
Connor idun and Xav o Halloran were another two very underrated and hugely inproved players in 2023. Add Briggs to that list too who was a complete no name before last season.
Then you have people like Callum Brown and Toby Bedford having good seasons and importantly the coach got a tune out of Hogan for the first time since his Melbourne days.
They backed it up in the finals too. There’s little doubt to me Kingsley is the real deal as a coach.
They are bullish on that Gothard kid that came in via the draft as a small forward with pick 12, he could really impact this year given his position.
Haven’t even mentioned the 2022 number one draft pick….

As for hopper and taranto. They don’t lose too many guns when all is said and done. Those guys are B graders.
Cameron arguably the only true A grade star that has left GWS, and they fought tooth and nail to keep him.

 

[The Feeder Club]

Think pk75 nailed it here. The improvement in players such as Green, Callaghan (to be fair those two would be improving stars under any coach) and a few others was so notable.
Coniglio went from looking like a washed up has been to an AA level player.
Connor idun and Xav o Halloran were another two very underrated and hugely inproved players in 2023. Add Briggs to that list too who was a complete no name before last season.
Then you have people like Callum Brown and Toby Bedford having good seasons and importantly the coach got a tune out of Hogan for the first time since his Melbourne days.
They backed it up in the finals too. There’s little doubt to me Kingsley is the real deal as a coach.
They are bullish on that Gothard kid that came in via the draft as a small forward with pick 12, he could really impact this year given his position.
Haven’t even mentioned the 2022 number one draft pick….

As for hopper and taranto. They don’t lose too many guns when all is said and done. Those guys are B graders.
Cameron arguably the only true A grade star that has left GWS, and they fought tooth and nail to keep him.

I think Taranto is an a grader that would slot into any side in the comp. Hopper definitely b grade at best. Bobby is pretty damn good.
But regardless Kingsley is the biggest difference and I can only say again, suddenly the list looks more talented

 

[FreoRicci]

Think pk75 nailed it here. The improvement in players such as Green, Callaghan (to be fair those two would be improving stars under any coach) and a few others was so notable.
Coniglio went from looking like a washed up has been to an AA level player.
Connor idun and Xav o Halloran were another two very underrated and hugely inproved players in 2023. Add Briggs to that list too who was a complete no name before last season.
Then you have people like Callum Brown and Toby Bedford having good seasons and importantly the coach got a tune out of Hogan for the first time since his Melbourne days.
They backed it up in the finals too. There’s little doubt to me Kingsley is the real deal as a coach.
They are bullish on that Gothard kid that came in via the draft as a small forward with pick 12, he could really impact this year given his position.
Haven’t even mentioned the 2022 number one draft pick….

As for hopper and taranto. They don’t lose too many guns when all is said and done. Those guys are B graders.
Cameron arguably the only true A grade star that has left GWS, and they fought tooth and nail to keep him.

I’ve been saying Cameron have been too defensive and that midfield should always make the finals even top 4 every season.
GWS’ list is far far talented than Fremantle. It’s not close.

All it needed was offensive tweaking. Hardly revolutionary.

Play Cognilio in his natural position. Who knew? Amazing how that works.

Hogan was a very very low fish high reward move. If it failed, ah well.

Himmelberg has gone from an average C grade forward to an elite defender within a season. Such an underrated player- great mark of the footy.

Toby Bedford would come into Fremantle side and be the perfect small forward. He’s a gun. Add Brent Daniels and Tony Greene probably makes that the best small forward group in the league.
Fremantle have none. Switkowski can’t kick goals, then the next small is Walters and Delean.

 

[Megalon]

Fremantle have none. Switkowski can’t kick goals, then the next small is Walters and Delean.

Definitely a list weaKness - I'll be keeping an eye on Malakai Champion this season, but think we also need to bring in a small forward via free agency or a mature ager from one of the state leagues.

I wouldn't mind giving Simpson a go as a small forward though

 

[blue shark]

Definitely a list weaKness - I'll be keeping an eye on Malakai Champion this season, but think we also need to bring in a small forward via free agency or a mature ager from one of the state leagues.

I wouldn't mind giving Simpson a go as a small forward though

Definitely have to pick players that can naturally find the goals.
Collingwood found a way and that should be our blueprint too.

 

[FreoRicci]

Definitely have to pick players that can naturally find the goals.
Collingwood found a way and that should be our blueprint too.

Bobby Hill winning Norm Smith says it all.

Midfielders that can kick 50+ metres are valuable.
De Goey kicked 1 or 2 in the GF. My favourite Crisp kick bombs.
Just don't think Fremantle's midfield kick enough goals.

 

[Docker82]

Bobby Hill winning Norm Smith says it all.

Midfielders that can kick 50+ metres are valuable.
De Goey kicked 1 or 2 in the GF. My favourite Crisp kick bombs.
Just don't think Fremantle's midfield kick enough goals.

Our forward line almost kicked enough goals. Prior to Schultz leaving they were natural improvement away from doing in this season.

But 10-11 goals is about as much as you can ever expect from even the best forward line on average. You need 3-4 from elsewhere - we were barely getting over one goal a game from elsewhere. The difference between us and the best teams here is bigger than it in the forward line.

 

[Joao]

Our forward line almost kicked enough goals. Prior to Schultz leaving they were natural improvement away from doing in this season.

But 10-11 goals is about as much as you can ever expect from even the best forward line on average. You need 3-4 from elsewhere - we were barely getting over one goal a game from elsewhere. The difference between us and the best teams here is bigger than it in the forward line.

This is spot on I think. I could never figure out why our forwards seem at the level individually (except Switta and Treacy, the latter of which could improve significantly) but we couldn't score.

We kicked the same amount of goals as Carlton though apparently and they have 2 quality mature KPFs including a coleman medalist.(according to that AFL article on scoring). Even with Schultz gone, there is massive scope for finding another goal or 2 from the forwards. I mean, Amiss alone could make up the Schultz shortfall in a season or t.

Nobody else kicks any goals though. Andy is up to 0.5 and I think Serong will join him eventually. It's Johnson/Young (i.e. the blokes with penetration) and the wingers that need to hit the scoreboard. Hopefully Simpson comes good since it seems to be a natural thing for him.

 

[pK75]

This is spot on I think. I could never figure out why our forwards seem at the level individually (except Switta and Treacy, the latter of which could improve significantly) but we couldn't score.

We kicked the same amount of goals as Carlton though apparently and they have 2 quality mature KPFs including a coleman medalist.(according to that AFL article on scoring). Even with Schultz gone, there is massive scope for finding another goal or 2 from the forwards. I mean, Amiss alone could make up the Schultz shortfall in a season or t.

Nobody else kicks any goals though. Andy is up to 0.5 and I think Serong will join him eventually. It's Johnson/Young (i.e. the blokes with penetration) and the wingers that need to hit the scoreboard. Hopefully Simpson comes good since it seems to be a natural thing for him.

Was an interesting article and highlighted we have the same number of players who kicked over 20 goals for the year as the pies did (5) sure we lost Schultz but Sturt kicked 17 from 14 games, if he can get on the park more often he’d kick over 20 in a season. Treacy kicked 15 from 17 games (7 of which he was second ruck) so more games as a pure forward would see him kick over 20 for the year. It’s very likely we could have 6 or 7 players kick over 20 goals this year which would move us into the top bracket of teams.
As others have already mentioned, we need more mids kicking goals as well, if Sharp, young and Johnson can increase their output to 10 goals a year each, it would greatly benefit the team as a whole.

 

[Docker82]

Was an interesting article and highlighted we have the same number of players who kicked over 20 goals for the year as the pies did (5) sure we lost Schultz but Sturt kicked 17 from 14 games, if he can get on the park more often he’d kick over 20 in a season. Treacy kicked 15 from 17 games (7 of which he was second ruck) so more games as a pure forward would see him kick over 20 for the year. It’s very likely we could have 6 or 7 players kick over 20 goals this year which would move us into the top bracket of teams.
As others have already mentioned, we need more mids kicking goals as well, if Sharp, young and Johnson can increase their output to 10 goals a year each, it would greatly benefit the team as a whole.

I don’t want to criticise him too much as he’s a fantastic player but I’d like to see Serong kick more goals. Improvement comes from most players on our list improving, including the better ones, not just youngsters in their third to fourth seasons.

Also losing the goals from Acres and NOD from 2022 was massive. Hopefully NOD can at least get back somewhere near his best - It’d help if he kicked more goals than 2023.

 

[jimboslice]

Anyone see Collingwood’s new indoor training facility?
Collingwoods old netball stadium ($15 million government grant to build) now being used as a new indoor training facility to benefit the AFL teams. Lol.

 

[The Feeder Club]

Anyone see Collingwood’s new indoor training facility?
Collingwoods old netball stadium ($15 million government grant to build) now being used as a new indoor training facility to benefit the AFL teams. Lol.

JFC this league

 

[Lach72]

* these guys

 

[poshman]

* these guys

Cant see it happening. They can take Bell. I wouldn't mind trading with Bell if he was at the eagles.

 

[Taylor]

An article like that comes around every couple of years

 

[wakojako]

I don’t want to criticise him too much as he’s a fantastic player but I’d like to see Serong kick more goals. Improvement comes from most players on our list improving, including the better ones, not just youngsters in their third to fourth seasons.

Also losing the goals from Acres and NOD from 2022 was massive. Hopefully NOD can at least get back somewhere near his best - It’d help if he kicked more goals than 2023.

Nah if anything Brayshaw needs to kick more goals. He can run all day so he needs to become another marking target up forward when we win the contest. Serong is busy doing all the dirty work so it's understandable if he has less of a scoreboard impact. Maybe with the new players we have in the engine room this season Serong might be let off the leash more.

 

[pK75]

Blind Freddy would be better than their current requirement team, it’s obvious they should have taken Johnson instead or Chesser (whatever his name is) I firmly believe they should have taken norths offer and picked up Curtin, Hardeman and Collard with the three picks on offer. Harley may be great, but their list needs massive rejuvenation and he’s only one player.

 

[Taylor]

Brayshaw was down in general play link up marks by about 25% in 2023 from 2022, assuming that's due to his sore knee holding back that running ability.

But when I say that if he were fit at the start of the year, we play finals - that's what I am referring to.

 

[Docker82]

Nah if anything Brayshaw needs to kick more goals. He can run all day so he needs to become another marking target up forward when we win the contest. Serong is busy doing all the dirty work so it's understandable if he has less of a scoreboard impact. Maybe with the new players we have in the engine room this season Serong might be let off the leash more.

Brayshaw kicked the most goals out of our midfielders by a long long way.

I’m not asking Serong to kick a goal a game but it’d be nice for him to nail the shots he does have, which he didn’t do in 2023.

 

[wakojako]

Brayshaw kicked the most goals out of our midfielders by a long long way.

I’m not asking Serong to kick a goal a game but it’d be nice for him to nail the shots he does have, which he didn’t do in 2023.

Serong definitely needs to nail those set shots but Brayshaw's play style/role in the midfield should give him more opportunities in front of goal.

 

[wakojako]

Brayshaw was down in general play link up marks by about 25% in 2023 from 2022, assuming that's due to his sore knee holding back that running ability.

But when I say that if he were fit at the start of the year, we play finals - that's what I am referring to.

There is no way a fit Bae would be the difference last season. So much went wrong and not one player could have fixed it.

 

[freo84]

The first 2 quarters were a real issue last season. The energy was way down and we were constantly giving up 4 or 5 goals before we got moving. Fixing our starts will go a long way to climbing the ladder.

 

[pK75]

There is no way a fit Bae would be the difference last season. So much went wrong and not one player could have fixed it.

It could have swung the result in the first 2 rounds last year, which would have changed the entire mindset of the team.

 

[Taylor]

There is no way a fit Bae would be the difference last season. So much went wrong and not one player could have fixed it.

The result in round two couldn't have been closer and we only needed the slightest more control of ball movement in round one to drive the ball forward better.

We'd have been two wins up and that puts us within touch.

Brayshaw's run is his weapon and he didn't have it. If he were fully fit I don't think he only has two marks against Adelaide in round four.