Contracted Orazio Fantasia

Yoda_

Brownlow Medallist
May 6, 2007
25,048
11,553
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AFL Club
Essendon
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I'll email you a medal.

Amongst your stats have you looked at effectiveness? Matches won with/without him in the team?

there's a reason why dons fans rate him so highly and looking at your stats won't clear that up.

And the bolded is pure bulls**t. You can tell me that a player is s**t if he only has 6 touches, ignoring that those touches may all end up as goals.

You are exploring grade 3 level stats. I remember looking up ranking scores in the paper when i was young. It was really fun.
I keep telling people that SC stats are arguably the closest pointer to a player we have. His ave of 66 is severely hampered by injury effected games (19, 32, 31). In his dominant year of 207 he averaged 83. That’s closer to why we rate him so highly


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Yoda_

Brownlow Medallist
May 6, 2007
25,048
11,553
South East Suburbs
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspurs, Melbourne Vixen
What other stats?

Effectiveness ? That’s not a stat.

Games won/lost with him in the side isn’t a stat relevant to your claim.
If you break it down to him performing when we win should start to paint a picture for the masses


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Yoda_

Brownlow Medallist
May 6, 2007
25,048
11,553
South East Suburbs
AFL Club
Essendon
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Tottenham Hotspurs, Melbourne Vixen
That reason is because Brian Taylor is obsessed with him. The way Brian Taylor reacts to him you'd think he was as good as Cyril Rioli in his prime.

Orazio is an average player with a fun name--- Essendon fans overrate their own, but he's not THAT good that he's worthy of a first round pick.
Lol


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philthy05

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 9, 2008
17,017
18,124
adelaide
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Port Adelaide
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If you break it down to him performing when we win should start to paint a picture for the masses


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We were discussing dappers claim Fantasia gets up the ground and how the stats don’t reflect that not fantasias worth to a side
 

DapperJong

Hall of Famer
Feb 11, 2015
36,433
66,873
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What other stats?

Effectiveness ? That’s not a stat.

Games won/lost with him in the side isn’t a stat relevant to your claim.
Awesome.

If we are trying to establish a value of a player, you’d take into account effectiveness.

Unless you aren’t just trying to prove that you’re good at researching stats then mate, you are my guy and I’ll be recommending you to everyone in need.
 

DapperJong

Hall of Famer
Feb 11, 2015
36,433
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We were discussing dappers claim Fantasia gets up the ground and how the stats don’t reflect that not fantasias worth to a side
Can you not read that I said my “quite a bit” was less than you’d taken it for?

I have conceded your point 3 posts ago.

How many medals do you want from me man?
 

Thetrader15

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 16, 2015
11,145
11,840
AFL Club
Adelaide
Crows
In: Orazio, Ess 2019/3
Out: Carl 2019/2, Crows 2019/2

GWS:
In: Carl 2019/2, Crows 2019/2 (more points)
Out: Ess 2019/1

Ess:
In: Ess 2019/1
Out: Orazio, 2019/3
 

philthy05

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 9, 2008
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Awesome.

If we are trying to establish a value of a player, you’d take into account effectiveness.

Unless you aren’t just trying to prove that you’re good at researching stats then mate, you are my guy and I’ll be recommending you to everyone in need.
Where is this stat for “effectiveness”. Please list it. And how does it relate to your up the ground claim?


Can you not read that I said my “quite a bit” was less than you’d taken it for?

I have conceded your point 3 posts ago.

How many medals do you want from me man?
So what are you saying? You were wrong? You worded it wrong? What did you mean to say?

You don’t get to move the goalposts on your original claim 5 posts later, while simultaneously saying I’m wrong. Especially while trying to claim some moral high ground.


It’s pretty simple. You claimed Fantasia went up the ground quite a bit, I pointed out that isn’t reflected anywhere in his stats. You argued over that saying I wasn’t reading the right stats. Then later are mysteriously shifting your “quite a bit” statement to something unspecified.
 

DapperJong

Hall of Famer
Feb 11, 2015
36,433
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Where is this stat for “effectiveness”. Please list it. And how does it relate to your up the ground claim?




So what are you saying? You were wrong? You worded it wrong? What did you mean to say?

You don’t get to move the goalposts on your original claim 5 posts later, while simultaneously saying I’m wrong. Especially while trying to claim some moral high ground.


It’s pretty simple. You claimed Fantasia went up the ground quite a bit, I pointed out that isn’t reflected anywhere in his stats. You argued over that saying I wasn’t reading the right stats. Then later are mysteriously shifting your “quite a bit” statement to something unspecified.
Mate I’m conceding everything to get you to leave me alone.

You’ve taken my words on a journey I didn’t think possible.

My point was he has more value than just a forward pocket. That’s it. Believe it or not I don’t really care.
 

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philthy05

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 9, 2008
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Hang on philthy05 where did I claim moral high ground LOL

What are my moral high ground stats? Am I effective?
Telling everyone you conceded some point ages ago when you didn’t while blasting me for not disproving the point you’ve apparently conceded is trying to take the moral high ground.

Also that last line isn’t the sick burn you think it is when you’ve asked me repeatedly to look up fantasias effectiveness stats. I’ve only given you an eternity to point out what stat that is and how it supported the point (which apparently you conceded but still want to argue at the same time..)
 

DapperJong

Hall of Famer
Feb 11, 2015
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Telling everyone you conceded some point ages ago when you didn’t while blasting me for not disproving the point you’ve apparently conceded is trying to take the moral high ground.

Also that last line isn’t the sick burn you think it is when you’ve asked me repeatedly to look up fantasias effectiveness stats. I’ve only given you an eternity to point out what stat that is and how it supported the point (which apparently you conceded but still want to argue at the same time..)
Sorry I upset you :(
 

DapperJong

Hall of Famer
Feb 11, 2015
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Lol.

Now you’re trying to have a go at me because you didn’t like the fact I asked you to support your statement because I couldn’t see any support for it. And it’s come to you having childish digs at me.
I don’t have time for it to be honest. You know how to research effectiveness I’m sure, but it doesn’t suit you.

But you care much more about this argument than I do. I never stood a chance.

I’m pretty close to forgetting what we were talking about.
 

Crow till I die

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 6, 2017
5,064
4,429
AFL Club
Adelaide
Would Essendon consider a swap for Greenwood? - maybe a swap of 2nd rounders in Essendons favor. Not that I want to lose Greenwood as he is a beast inside and can go forward and kick goals but you have to give good to get good
 

Red Black and Blue

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 1, 2006
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Where is this stat for “effectiveness”. Please list it. And how does it relate to your up the ground claim?
Score involvements, he creates so many scoring chains for us by pushing high up the ground and breaking a line and being creative.

Not having a great year this year with 5.4 this year but an inconsistent forward line will add to that. But averaged 6.6 a game in 17 & 18. Which put him 48th and 28th in the competition respectively, with almost exclusively great midfielders and forward averaging more than that. Which he's done in a team that hasn't been huge scorers or had dominant wins to pad his stats.

For context Charlie Cameron is averaging 6.4 this year and averaged 5.3 the year he left the Crows.
 

philthy05

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 9, 2008
17,017
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adelaide
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Score involvements, he creates so many scoring chains for us by pushing high up the ground and breaking a line and being creative.

Not having a great year this year with 5.4 this year but an inconsistent forward line will add to that. But averaged 6.6 a game in 17 & 18. Which put him 48th and 28th in the competition respectively, with almost exclusively great midfielders and forward averaging more than that. Which he's done in a team that hasn't been huge scorers or had dominant wins to pad his stats.

For context Charlie Cameron is averaging 6.4 this year and averaged 5.3 the year he left the Crows.
Thanks

This isn’t really relevant to what he was talking about. It’s not a stat for “effectiveness”. It’s not really relevant to the claim he was playing up the ground quite a bit either as the score involvement stat doesn’t preclude positions on the ground. That’s not to dissuade any argument you might put forward about Fantasia as a player it’s just not relevant to the convo you’re quoting.

Anyway. As to his score involvements I initially thought those were good numbers and possibly are, but on the table for score involvements totals he’s not in the top 100 unless I’m blind and missing him. I did count 4 port players in the top 100 though. On averages he is number 91. The difference between Cameron and Fantasia is around 60 odd places as Cameron is 26th.
 

Peel67skin

Norm Smith Medallist
May 21, 2017
5,858
2,638
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Gold Coast
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Thanks

This isn’t really relevant to what he was talking about. It’s not a stat for “effectiveness”. It’s not really relevant to the claim he was playing up the ground quite a bit either as the score involvement stat doesn’t preclude positions on the ground. That’s not to dissuade any argument you might put forward about Fantasia as a player it’s just not relevant to the convo you’re quoting.

Anyway. As to his score involvements I initially thought those were good numbers and possibly are, but on the table for score involvements totals he’s not in the top 100 unless I’m blind and missing him. I did count 4 port players in the top 100 though. Still his score involvement numbers could be good, just not top 100 in the afl good.
Club either trade or don't trade .Don't really matter what you think in the end. Club make the move if they think he is worth it. We are just making noise here without any real influence on the outcome.
 
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