Traded Patrick Ryder traded to Port for picks 17 and 37

[Wild Bill]

If he uses the clause, wouldnt he then be admitting a guilty plea to do so and banned anyway. I suppose he is in no win situation, doubt he will use any clause and be kept at Essendon if a trade cant be manufactured.

No player will admit to taking a banned drug as no player has a clue what they took. That would be the bases of his argument to walk out.

 

[carnthedons]

No player will admit to taking a banned drug as no player has a clue what they took. That would be the bases of his argument to walk out.

Then no player will be taking any ASADA deals, will they?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Then no player will be taking any ASADA deals, will they?

Depends on the deal and the alternatives.

 

[carnthedons]

Depends on the deal and the alternatives.

But to get a deal they need to put up their hand and say "I'm a drug cheat". Ask Paul Gallen how that feels.

 

[Hollow Knight]

But to get a deal they need to put up their hand and say "I'm a drug cheat". Ask Paul Gallen how that feels.

I'm sure the lawyers will quibble over and ultimately agree upon language that both parties are content with.

"Through professional negligence I consented to injections in a coercive environment lacking appropriate safeguards and record keeping protocols. In response to evidence provided by ASADA, I believe it is highly probable that I have been unknowingly injected with substances including Thymosin B4 in violation of anti doping rules and I accept the proposed sanction of six months offseason suspension to be served October 2014-March 2015."

Something like that. The word "cheat" nowhere to be seen.

 

[scottjr]

But to get a deal they need to put up their hand and say "I'm a drug cheat". Ask Paul Gallen how that feels.

They need to accept ASADAs findings which may say they were negligent in trusting the club and therefore have to accept a penalty for that negligence. In spite of the fact that they were given substances that were non compliant with the world anti-doping authority by the Essendon football club in the belief that the medical staff at the Essendon football club were acting within the guidelines laid out by the world anti doping authority.

ASADA will have overwhelming evidence that was not available to the players at the time they signed previous contracts in the belief that Essendon had told them the truth about the dropping program.

 

[carnthedons]

I'm sure the lawyers will quibble over and ultimately agree upon language that both parties are content with.

"Through lack of personal professional due diligence I consented to injections in a coercive environment lacking appropriate safeguards and record keeping protocols. As such, it is my belief that it is highly probable I have been unknowingly injected against my wishes with substances including Thymosin B4 in violation of anti doping rules and I accept the proposed sanction of six months offseason suspension to be served October 2014-March 2015."

Something like that. The word "cheat" nowhere to be seen.

Cool, so like Melbourne didn't tank then. You and I both know that official legalese and what is brought up in media/public are wildly different things. See Peter Fitzsimons' work after the Cronulla deal.

 

[carnthedons]

They need to accept ASADAs findings which may say they were negligent in trusting the club and therefore have to accept a penalty for that negligence. In spite of the fact that they were given substances that were non compliant with the world anti-doping authority by the Essendon football club in the belief that the medical staff at the Essendon football club were acting within the guidelines laid out by the world anti doping authority.

ASADA will have overwhelming evidence that was not available to the players at the time they signed previous contracts in the belief that Essendon had told them the truth about the dropping program.

As of 24 hours ago, ASADA still wouldn't show them this overwhelming evidence. It'll come out in the wash.

Anyway, this is digression and I apologise. Ryder will get Essendon a good trade or he'll be there next year.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Cool, so like Melbourne didn't tank then. You and I both know that official legalese and what is brought up in media/public are wildly different things. See Peter Fitzsimons' work after the Cronulla deal.

Well unfortunately it is a messy situation, largely created by your club. The road to escaping completely stain free is a dangerous and risky one.

And really, if perception is your overriding priority, you have to know that even if Little's plan to fight it all the way to the hilt comes off perfectly, the perception will still remain for many.

If players are going to be considered drug cheats either way, you can't blame some of them for taking a deal.

 

[Two Planks]

Don't understand how this is playing out. Surely Brisbane and GWS dont need him. Port would be looking for a forward / 2nd ruck and Ryder is better suited as the one out ruckman. If he wants to live in qld gold coast should sign him and trade out two of the injury prone ruckman nicholls gorringe or smith.

 

[carnthedons]

Well unfortunately it is a messy situation, largely created by your club. The road to escaping completely stain free is a dangerous and risky one.

Nobody's doing that now. AFL/ASADA/EFC/Demetriou/Fitzpatrick/Gill/Dank/Hird/Robinson/Gillard/Lundy/Clare the list goes on and on.

Kudos for saying largely created by my club. I know my club has erred to some degree, just feel it may've been magnified by several along the way.

 

[Wild Bill]

As of 24 hours ago, ASADA still wouldn't show them this overwhelming evidence. It'll come out in the wash.

Anyway, this is digression and I apologise. Ryder will get Essendon a good trade or he'll be there next year.

You really think there is a chance he plays for you again? I think that ship has sailed.

 

[carnthedons]

You really think there is a chance he plays for you again? I think that ship has sailed.

In an idealistic world where my club had balls, maybe.

 

[_Owl_]

ASADA don't need proof to suspend.

Is that true? Seems bizarre given the presumption of innocence.

 

[carnthedons]

Is that true? Seems bizarre given the presumption of innocence.

There are guidelines in place for suspension pre-hearing etc.

And presumption of innocence? You're having a laugh aren't you.

 

[Taylor]

Is that true? Seems bizarre given the presumption of innocence.

A reasonable suspicion is all they need.

 

[_Owl_]

There are guidelines in place for suspension pre-hearing etc.

And presumption of innocence? You're having a laugh aren't you.

Well we have never been given that presumption but I still thought ASADA must prove their case for suspensions to be handed out. Still seems bizarre to me.

 

[Bailey01]

Hopefully lands at Brisbane

 

[Wild Bill]

Well we have never been given that presumption but I still thought ASADA must prove their case for suspensions to be handed out. Still seems bizarre to me.

Taylor was correct "A reasonable suspicion is all they need."

It is not like a court of law when beyond reasonable doubt is required. This is why most of the football world think you are in trouble.

 

[Yoda_]

Taylor was correct "A reasonable suspicion is all they need."

It is not like a court of law when beyond reasonable doubt is required. This is why most of the football world think you are in trouble.

People aren;t that smart to work that part out for themselves. They have blindly been brainwashed through sheer flooding of media outlets that Essendon/Hird/Dank/Robinson is the second coming of Judas

 

[Wild Bill]

People aren;t that smart to work that part out for themselves. They have blindly been brainwashed through sheer flooding of media outlets that Essendon/Hird/Dank/Robinson is the second coming of Judas

Is that any worse than those that have blindly followed hird and co? Those that think he is the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.

 

[yaco55]

Your club will talk the talk but they will not let it get to court.

If you win you force one player who does not want to be part of your team to stay, if you lose you run the very real risk of half your players walking out. You stand to win very little and lose pretty much everything.

You do not gamble in that situation, Ryder's manager is not stupid, he knows this.

I don't understand your logic - Ryder forced to go to the tribunal = half of Essendon's players walking out.

 

[yaco55]

This very much so. We should obviously try and get a better deal maybe 1st round plus a fringe player but I doubt they would go for that. We in a bad position to push hard as Ryder wants to leave and if they could easily implore Ryder to attempt to initiate a get out clause (Ryder doesn't wish to do this) and we would get nothing. I still think Port's second round pick but if Brisbane and Port push then the trade will likely be somewhat more Essendon sided. Though if a bidding war occurs one team could still tempt Ryder into the get out clause.

You are making a big assumption - The get out clause must be proven at a tribunal - The way I am reading the interpretation of the Get out clause in BF, makes me wonder why 50 players haven't already SUCCESSFULLY used this clause.

 

[yaco55]

Was told yesterday that Ryder has not been issued with a SC notice and that is why Essendon is playing hard ball as that means there is no breach of his contract.

Of course the flip side could be that he has cut a deal with ASADA and it waiting to activate it. Once he does he has a clear breach as he will have been found guilty of doping due to a club instigated program.

Well if that is true we may as well close down this thread - What would posters discuss ?

 

[yaco55]

personally think 12 months is the most likely outcome as they hid behind the EFC & Hird legal action.

I'm waiting for the Workcover penalties now and Ryder can walk to wherever he likes and Essendon have absolutely no way of stopping him.


Given Robbo's track record on everyone to do with Essendon of late I'm calling Bullsh*t on this. I might be wrong but on the balance of probability I'm confident.

Also can't see the reason for going to GWS for mine. Have Mumford, developing solid young ruckman and absolutely no chance of him playing in the forward line.

AFAIK, Essendon have been cleared of any Workcover breaches. But continue your rant !-

You think 12 months - Gee - The players have to be found guilty - Are you missing a step ?