Autopsy Pies go down to Hawks 101-67

[Somebody]

The comparison of what Hawthorn paid for Mitchell is painful.

That's cherry picking, we have had plenty of bargain picks like Swan, Elliot, harry etc etc etc

 

[mike123]

last year everyone including on this board was v happy with AT. I still think he's a v good player but so was buckley.
(I'm not saying he is as good as Bucks was but that's not my point)

It was considered a good get at a high price not a mastertroke.

 

[Somebody]

The 2004/5 down years were on the back of 2 grand finals with the coach taking over a wooden spoon side 2 years before making the GF. The coach had 2 flags to his name prior to that. I have never been a great MM fan but he had the credibility that success brings so sticking with him at that time could be justified. We are 6 years into the current coach's tenture and not one year has seen more wins than the last. The second year of his tenure we were in disarray and exited players as a result - instead of the coach. That required improvement to justify and that has not come.

IN any case, the 2005 team did not evolve into the 2010 team. We added the virtually the entire goal to goal line (Cloke was drafted 2004 and Reid, Brown & Dawes in 2006). We drafted Pendlebury & Thomas in 2005. We won the 2010 flag in the 2005 and 2006 drafts with some help from the 2009 recruitmet of Ball & Jolly.

The prioprity pick system won't land us a Pendlebury & Thomas combo again.

We are 3 good drafts off having a list that targetted recruiting can fill the holes in but unless we have a better talent spotting and coaching set up we are not in the ball game at all. Derek Hine's move from talent spoting to list management was a complete disaster on both fronts.

There has obvioulsy been plenty said about the coach. He was always going to be extended no matter what the results. Right now I can see a watershed moment building. The very patient natives are finally getting restless. The improvement won't come, not sufficiently anyway. The president's power base is being eroded and will be by the week as more people come to realise that ego's don't make appointements good one's and therefore aren't a reason to retain someone.

I havne't totally given up hope, it's only the 1st game and Hawthorn did not play rusty (and I"m not talking about sidebum's brother) like most sides do in the first game. If Bucks fails as a coach he would make a great footy manager but more likely he'll make millions commentating.

 

[Somebody]

It was considered a good get at a high price not a mastertroke.

I'd say something in between good get and masterstroke, maybe a little closer to the good get end.

 

[Mukesh]

Didn't see the game live, the beaches of Goa were a calling me... but caught the replay after reading most of what's on here. Nothing much to add really, the whole experience was mind-numbingly familiar and dispiriting.

Something did occur to me... Having Darcy down back makes me very nervous for young Jeremy Howe. We now have two, somewhat loose, fly at the ball, try and mark it types playing side by side. On a number of occasions Jeremy deferred to Darcy and basically became irrelevant because Jeremy really ain't that strong in a ground level contest... I understand why they want Moore down back, if I was Jeremy I'd be seeking further clarification of my role...

Yeah Cox had a shocker and is hopefully somewhat embarrassed, not only by his butter fingers but by the total and absolute ease with which his Hawks opponents were able to body him off the ball, lets face it... the guy is tall but he ain't strong... speaking of which, Grundy wasn't much better, did he take a mark ?? if so I missed it, and whats with the ongoing total lack of connection between him and the midfield at center bounces... do those guys even talk to each other ?

I think I said last year Ben Reid had reached his use-by date... well he hasn't got any fresher in 2018, too slow, lacks agility, cannot jump and lacks mongrel...sorry Ben but it's really only lack of credible alternatives that's keeping you in the side... Messrs Aish, Phillips and Smith... I fail to see what you bring to the table, sure you're playing a very difficult game at the highest level but c'mon guys, you have to do something that sets you apart from the dudes playing in the VFL... I just don't see what that something is...

Errata... it just dawned on me.. with Langdon down back we now have three somewhat loose, fly at the ball, try and mark it types playing side by side...that's 50% of our backline... no wonder Messrs Rioli, Puopolo, Breust, Gunston et al were able to do pretty much as they liked.. kudos to Roughhead for keeping Dunn occupied. What I'm getting at is that once the ball hit the ground in our back half 4 out of 6 backmen were irrelevant to the contest....but at least our midfielders were back in the center ready for the next bounce...

Steele... I thought you were great... Scotty P...maaaate you aren't the first guy to get married, have a kid, deal with extra responsibility and start to feel old...just get a grip and deal with it, cos at the moment you are burning through all that banked credibility at a rapid rate. Jaidyn (?) and Sam... good job guys, first game out of the way, nobody disgraced...excellent effort...

 

[Somebody]

Our magic plan is to hope for Cox play with sticky fingers....

Well it's too soon to write Coz off although it looks a bit shakey. He showed hella improvement in the preseason but that's got limited relevance.
But he still needs to adjust to the manic pressure of the 1sts especially in slippery conditions like this game. He's just started clunking them so clunking in the wet is another step up. Def still a bit of deer in headlights syndrome on the ground but not nearly as bad as before. I recall that Ant was very DIHL's early in his career, and maybe Trav too although I'm not sure.
as Buckley said it's a test of character right now. does he get discouraged an intimidated, or does he say "F all you bitches I'll show you what I can fn do!!" and work like a dog to improve?

 

[DWil6]

Our magic plan is to hope for Cox play with sticky fingers....

Get Coxy some of Bancroft’s yellow tape, stat!!

 

[mike123]

I'd say something in between good get and masterstroke, maybe a little closer to the good get end.

Would have been a master stroke if we kept one of our first rounders.

 

[Somebody]

The two No.7 draft picks for Treloar makes me ill.

Article in Tomorrow's Age by Michael Gleeson

One game in, just one game, but it all felt so familiar. It felt like the same old Collingwood.
One game is not enough to draw a definitive conclusion but this felt like 101 games, not just the first of a new season. Their hope is that it was just a bad first-up game, but the one bad game had a lot of similar themes.

Jamie Elliott and Daniel Wells were not fit enough for the first game. Again. Jordan De Goey was suspended by the club and missing the first game. Again.
These things were true before the game. These things were true in the game: still they have too few players who can kick well. Still they have too few players with leg speed. Still there is no small crumbing pressure forward. Still they look impotent forward with Elliott out. Still they are unable to lock down on small forwards (Luke Breust enjoys playing Collingwood).

True, the arrival of Sam Murray on Saturday night offered one of the few bright notes for Collingwood, suggesting that they might have finally found one good small running defender, but against a Hawthorn forward line of Cyril, Breust, Puopolo and Impey the Magpies needed more than one Sam Murray. Collingwood’s last-round win last year now already feels like a dead cat bounce. That was the game that set up the idea that Mason Cox and Brodie Grundy could play in the same set up with Cox the target forward.

On Saturday night he was a target only for his own club’s fans. Cox played a terrible game. Initially he couldn’t hold marks amid a clatter of bodies, then he couldn’t hold marks when he was competing against himself. Buckley might be saved a decision on him by the high bump that could see him resting next week.

The problem Collingwood has is that Cox is structurally important to them, yet he is a player of uncertain ability and future. He remains a project player but one who is playing in one of their most critical positions in a side that has struggled in attack. Collingwood play a game that looks to deliver the ball into attack long and high, relying on Cox to mark it or force a free kick from panicky defenders chopping or holding on. Neither thing happened – Cox didn’t mark and Hawthorn didn’t panic. Ben Reid was mobile and threatening, but it was not enough to be damaging. Ben Crocker looked surprisingly good, but now he too is injured. The forward set-up to kick long to talls is remarkable for the fact that they have no genuine crumbing forward in the team to gather the spilt ball. Callum Brown is the most obvious candidate to develop into that role. Tim Broomhead is another who should be used exclusively there and cultivated to do the job.

Collingwood had their club review last year and made a host of low-profile changes and a couple of high profile ones. They got rid of the CEO and they kept the coach. Changes will take time to filter through, but first impressions are Collingwood presents as they did last year, as a team neither bad enough nor good enough to give hope. They looked desperately mediocre. The changes they made last year acknowledged that the problems were many and varied and not limited to coaching – the list for instance was over-rated. Still they have too many ordinary players and on Saturday even their better ones were poor.

Adam Treloar was traded for two first-round draft picks – both of them at seven. If he arrived and played like Josh Kelly he would be worth it, but he hasn’t.

Compare what Hawthorn did instead. They only needed pick 14 to get Tom Mitchell. In the last two games, Mitchell has had more than 100 possessions against Collingwood. This time there was no doubting Mitchell’s record number of touches hurt Collingwood.

For a side that expedited list changes and theoretically bottomed out, they are suffering acutely from the fact when they invested heavily in the draft they came up empty-handed. The Matt Scharenberg, Nathan Freeman year is a disaster that is still being felt. Yes, they used a pick from Freeman to bring in James Aish, but Aish has yet to perform as a top 10 quality player. When you invest in top ten talent you need a better return than Collingwood got.
Taylor Adams was brought in when they ushered Heath Shaw out. Adams is tough but not defensive enough, and he turns the ball over too often.

It is only round one, but it does not feel like a one-game sample, it feels like deja vu. And with a road ahead that reads GWS, Carlton, Adelaide away, Essendon and Richmond it could be a grim feel by round six.

He's not saying anything different than what's being said on forums like this (in fact quite likley plagiarized some of it off boards liek this), and also was not a footy player. coach or anything else, so who really cares? Just because they are payed a lot and have a column doesn't suddenly make these guys' words golden. Eg caroline wilson.

 

[TradeDraft]

Get Coxy some of Bancroft’s yellow tape, stat!!

Well he got a 1 week Suspension for Striking

 

[Somebody]

After watching GWS today, you could just about add a zero to that figure

Probably but footy is a funny thing

 

[Finnishpie]

That's cherry picking, we have had plenty of bargain picks like Swan, Elliot, harry etc etc etc

Er, are you saying our recruiting and trading has been as clever as Hawthorns in the last 10 years? Okaaaay....

 

[The Dawes]

Didn't see the game live, the beaches of Goa were a calling me... but caught the replay after reading most of what's on here. Nothing much to add really, the whole experience was mind-numbingly familiar and dispiriting.

Something did occur to me... Having Darcy down back makes me very nervous for young Jeremy Howe. We now have two, somewhat loose, fly at the ball, try and mark it types playing side by side. On a number of occasions Jeremy deferred to Darcy and basically became irrelevant because Jeremy really ain't that strong in a ground level contest... I understand why they want Moore down back, if I was Jeremy I'd be seeking further clarification of my role...

Yeah Cox had a shocker and is hopefully somewhat embarrassed, not only by his butter fingers but by the total and absolute ease with which his Hawks opponents were able to body him off the ball, lets face it... the guy is tall but he ain't strong... speaking of which, Grundy wasn't much better, did he take a mark ?? if so I missed it, and whats with the ongoing total lack of connection between him and the midfield at center bounces... do those guys even talk to each other ?

I think I said last year Ben Reid had reached his use-by date... well he hasn't got any fresher in 2018, too slow, lacks agility, cannot jump and lacks mongrel...sorry Ben but it's really only lack of credible alternatives that's keeping you in the side... Messrs Aish, Phillips and Smith... I fail to see what you bring to the table, sure you're playing a very difficult game at the highest level but c'mon guys, you have to do something that sets you apart from the dudes playing in the VFL... I just don't see what that something is...

Errata... it just dawned on me.. with Langdon down back we now have three somewhat loose, fly at the ball, try and mark it types playing side by side...that's 50% of our backline... no wonder Messrs Rioli, Puopolo, Breust, Gunston et al were able to do pretty much as they liked.. kudos to Roughhead for keeping Dunn occupied. What I'm getting at is that once the ball hit the ground in our back half 4 out of 6 backmen were irrelevant to the contest....but at least our midfielders were back in the center ready for the next bounce...

Steele... I thought you were great... Scotty P...maaaate you aren't the first guy to get married, have a kid, deal with extra responsibility and start to feel old...just get a grip and deal with it, cos at the moment you are burning through all that banked credibility at a rapid rate. Jaidyn (?) and Sam... good job guys, first game out of the way, nobody disgraced...excellent effort...

Great summary and an excellent point re Howe
The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that the reason Darcy has been sent back is because they are committed to Mason Cox and so need to find him a role to justify said commitment.
Grundy has dibs on first ruck and Mason isn't mobile enough to play anywhere else but key forward so Darcy's been retrained as a back

 

[TradeDraft]

Probably but footy is a funny thing

and We have a very good Record against them

 

[Mukesh]

Great summary and an excellent point re Howe
The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that the reason Darcy has been sent back is because they are committed to Mason Cox and so need to find him a role to justify said commitment.
Grundy has dibs on first ruck and Mason isn't mobile enough to play anywhere else but key forward so Darcy's been retrained as a back

Yup...it's a bit chicken and egg I think. Not sure what came first, the idea to move Moore back or the commitment to Cox... either way the result is the same. The thing is, I reckon Mason is a better bet at center square bounces than Grundy, we seem to get cleaner clearances when he's in there...but around the ground and as a forward he just gets pushed around by (by definition) smaller guys... bloody Frawley owned young Mason on Saturday night..

 

[Anzacday]

I hoped a new defensive coach would teach the players the rushed rule.
I'm sick of us keeping the ball alive only to have the opposition kick a momentum sucking goal!

 

[Somebody]

Er, are you saying our recruiting and trading has been as clever as Hawthorns in the last 10 years? Okaaaay....

I really don't know, the question is, are the players superior or the coaching?

 

[Swooper18]

What crap! So our salvation in 2018 lies in the following players:

De Goey: Still unproven as he goes into his 4th year of senior football
Wells: a 34 year old who is continually injury-prone and never gets on the park and whose best days are well and truly behind him.
Fasolo: a half-forward who does not chase and hardly ever lays a tackle in 8 years of senior football. In fact I would have put him up for trading at the end of 2017.
Greenwood: a 29 year old whose best role is when he tags. However has no creative skills and very rarely breaks the lines.
Elliot: yes; a good player who is also continually injury-prone!

I think that a more appropriate song selection would be: "It's all over now baby blue (or should I say Bucks)".

By the way Round 1 very rarely throws up unpredictable results for Collingwood under Buckley:

2012: 22 point defeat by Hawthorn at the MCG.
2014: 70 point defeat by Fremantle at Docklands
2016: 80 point defeat by Sydney in Sydney.
2017: 14 point defeat by the Bulldogs at the MCG.
2018: 34 point defeat by Hawthorn at the MCG.

I have left out 2015 as we just managed to hang on to defeat a bottom 4 Brisbane team (from 2014) by 12 points at Brisbane.
As for 2013 we beat North Melbourne by 16 points at Docklands when we had a cery good tean inherited by Buckley from Malthouse.
It is a pity that you were not sitting near me as I started commenting upon Buckley's deficiencies as a coach well into the 2nd quarter.
The sooner that he is gone, the better!

I've seen Fasolo lay tackles that has won us games. The sooner that you're gone, the better.

 

[Lord of the Pies]

Credit to Bucks for the way he develops his forward gameplan over time. It's gone from kick it to Clokey, to kick it to Blairy, to kick it to Coxy. It must really keep the opposition coaches guessing.

Bucks clearly does not rate forwards. By my count our list of 45 has 7 forwards. Fas, Elliott, Mayne, Daicos, Kirby, Moore and WHE.

So we start the game with only 2 of them, but play 1 in defence for 3 quarters. I am amazed hawks defence let through 9 goals tbh.

14.28% of our forwards are CHRIS MAYNE.

 

[BPikkers]

What you describe is a team with a game plan that is well drilled and implemented.

That is not us.

Also a team with leaders on the field.

 

[Vicky Park]

I hoped a new defensive coach would teach the players the rushed rule.
I'm sick of us keeping the ball alive only to have the opposition kick a momentum sucking goal!

Infuriating! Watching us fumble around in their goal square, seemingly inches away from the line, and then ping! another Hawks goal.

 

[MarkT2]

I havne't totally given up hope, it's only the 1st game and Hawthorn did not play rusty (and I"m not talking about sidebum's brother) like most sides do in the first game. If Bucks fails as a coach he would make a great footy manager but more likely he'll make millions commentating.

It's not the first game its the 5th year and that's ignoring 2013 as clearly going off the rails. I'm not sure what you have seen in Buckley that indicates he would be a great footy manager. The reality is he is already a failed coach.

 

[Finnishpie]

I really don't know, the question is, are the players superior or the coaching?

Looks like both doesn't it?

 

[SideysBottom]

It was like Hawthorn were given a well-oiled training run with some of their forward 50 entries and the ease of their goals.

Buckley needs to salvage the season before we find ourselves 0-4 and playing catch up, not easy to do in the competition as it stands, we look like we have gone backwards and using injuries as an excuse can further put the group into the depths of despair as most other clubs fielded similar sides.

I can't wait for the end result providing we are willing to do anything it takes to bring the club forward.

 

[soreplums]

Also a team with leaders on the field.

Yep. We lack a lot of leadership presence on field