Play Nice Politics # 4 - The madness continues here.....

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MOD NOTICE

Abusing and/or trolling other posters in this thread will not be tolerated from this point on.

Debate away and continue to have strong opinions, but abusing posters ie calling them idiots/stupid etc or trolling posters by laugh liking their posts will not be tolerated going forward.

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[Mr_Moogle]

It was all discussed here after the George Floyd and subsequent BLM rallies here and in the U.S. It was pretty much ignored because it doesn’t suit the current zeitgeist.

“The report reveals white inmates are more likely to die in jail than black or Hispanic inmates. “The mortality rate for white jail inmates in 2016 (240 deaths per 100,000 white inmates) was more than double the rate for black inmates (118 deaths per 100,000 black inmates) and almost triple the rate for Hispanic inmates (87 deaths per 100,000 Hispanic inmates),” it concludes.”

The figures are similar in Australia.

Deaths in police custody in the United States: Research review

We summarized studies that look at deaths in police custody from multiple angles, including restraint methods and police force demographics.

journalistsresource.org

Did you actually read the article mate? You cherry picked a quote about deaths of jail inmates which wasn't really what we were talking about. Also the article you posted says all of the following:

"A study published in The New England Journal of Medicine in 2016 finds there were 222 “legal intervention” deaths in 2013, or cases in which someone was killed by an on-duty law enforcement or other peace officer"

"According to the paper, nearly everyone killed by on-duty officers in those states that year were male and between the ages of 20 and 54 years old. It finds that black people were most likely to die in police custody"

“The rates [of death] were higher among non-Hispanic blacks (0.6 per 100,000 population) and Hispanics (0.3 per 100,000) than among non-Hispanic whites (0.1 per 100,000),” the authors write.

"A newer study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences in 2019, estimates that black men have a 1 in 1,000 chance of being killed by police during their lifetimes. That’s 2.5 times the odds for a non-Hispanic white man, the authors find."

 

[Southerntakeover]

In this thread I'm not seeing anything of the sort. Wasn't that what your post was about? Let me check. Yep.

That's nonsensical.

My post was about them being completely absent when they couldnt wait to post thousands of times about how their sensibilities were so offended during last year's protests- the point is that their outrage was entirely confected trash, posted by trash.

Your response isnt viable. You attempted to draw a distinction by saying that no one would be justifying it, which was also demonstrably false.

 

[mistylake]

Did you actually read the article mate? You cherry picked a quote about deaths of jail inmates which wasn't really what we were talking about. Also the article you posted says all of the following:

"A study published in The New England Journal of Medicine in 2016 finds there were 222 “legal intervention” deaths in 2013, or cases in which someone was killed by an on-duty law enforcement or other peace officer"

"According to the paper, nearly everyone killed by on-duty officers in those states that year were male and between the ages of 20 and 54 years old. It finds that black people were most likely to die in police custody"

“The rates [of death] were higher among non-Hispanic blacks (0.6 per 100,000 population) and Hispanics (0.3 per 100,000) than among non-Hispanic whites (0.1 per 100,000),” the authors write.

"A newer study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences in 2019, estimates that black men have a 1 in 1,000 chance of being killed by police during their lifetimes. That’s 2.5 times the odds for a non-Hispanic white man, the authors find."

It is what it is.
If your white and come into contact with law enforcement your about 1.6 times more likely to die than an indigenous Australian. This includes all custodial areas, policing, in prison etc.



Conclusion
Australian Institute of Criminology
Statistical Bulletin 17
In 1991, the RCIADIC concluded Indigenous people were no more likely to die in custody than non- Indigenous people but were significantly more likely to be arrested and imprisoned. The same remains true today.
Indigenous people are now less likely than non-Indigenous people to die in custody, largely due to
a decrease in the death rate of Indigenous prisoners from 1999–2000 to 2005–06. Since 2003–04, non-Indigenous people have been, on average, 1.6 times more likely to die in prison custody than Indigenous people. More recently, there has been a narrowing in this gap, largely due to an increase in the death rate of Indigenous prisoners from 2013–14. Yet the death rate of Indigenous prisoners has been consistently lower than that of non-Indigenous prisoners since 2003–04. Coinciding with the overall decrease in the death rate of Indigenous prisoners is the decrease in the hanging death rate of Indigenous prisoners, falling below the natural death rate from 2002–03. Since 2003–04,
the hanging death rate of Indigenous prisoners has been lower or the same as that of non-Indigenous prisoners. In contrast, the natural death rate of Indigenous prisoners has remained relatively stable across the years. The mean age at death for Indigenous prisoners has been increasing over the years yet remains lower than that of non-Indigenous prisoners. Based on available prison population data from 2004–05 to 2015–16, the death rate of Indigenous unsentenced prisoners decreased overall, while the death rate of Indigenous sentenced prisoners increased slightly.
While less can be said about the trends for Indigenous deaths in police custody (due to the relatively small number of Indigenous deaths in police custody each year) and rates cannot currently be calculated, some clear patterns have emerged. Between 1991–92 and 2015–16, 146 Indigenous deaths in police custody occurred, representing 20 percent of all deaths in police custody.
One in every two (47%) Indigenous deaths in police custody were classified as an accident, followed by deaths from natural causes (21%) and self-inflicted deaths (19%). One in two accidental deaths were due to MVPs and one in five were due to some other type of pursuit. The number of Indigenous hanging deaths in police custody was relatively small, with no Indigenous hanging deaths occurring since 2008–09. The number of Indigenous deaths resulting from gunshot wounds was also relatively small, and notably smaller proportionately than non-Indigenous deaths in police custody. As with prison deaths, the age profile of Indigenous deaths in police custody was younger than that of non- Indigenous deaths in police custody.”

https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-05/sb17_indigenous_deaths_in_custody_-_25_years_since_the_rciadic_210219.pdf

 

[brucetiki]

Trump tries to use the official POTUS Twitter account to get around his ban.

Twitter promptly bins the posts.

Twitter confirms that it deleted Trump's tweets from @POTUS account

The political fallout over President Trump's reaction to the deadly Capitol attack continues to escalate as President-elect Joe Biden prepares to take office. Follow here for the latest news.

edition.cnn.com

 

[feenix67]

It's only terrorism if it's the RWNJs crossing the line. If it's the left, like the BLM riots, it's just peaceful protest that got out of hand because of RWNJ pigs.

Just a little note regarding context.

BLM rallies started following a string of unnecessary deaths at the hands of police of a.particular ethnic group. One that had been enslaved less than 100 years prior.

MAGA rallies started because the leader of the biggest democracy in the world decided it was impossible that he lost the election to sleepy Joe, and incited his supporters with reckless conspiracy theories and angry rhetoric.

Whilst both devolved into violence, personally I have less of a problem with a movement opposing ongoing discrimination and racial inequality than one whipped up by a narcissist wannabe dictator who, let's be honest, couldn't really give a s**t about the people who support him (aside from the votes they provide).

Not condoning violence in either case, but let's not bullshit about comparing the two. It's not apples with apples.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Good luck trying to get through to him. 1970 Crow thinks police brutality against black people in the US is just a left wing conspiracy.

 

[1970crow]

Good luck trying to get through to him. 1970 Crow thinks police brutality against black people in the US is just a left wing conspiracy.

Ha ha, can't argue against the real stats, so this is your response. Good stuff *******. Try using your brain every now and again.

 

[1970crow]

That's nonsensical.

My post was about them being completely absent when they couldnt wait to post thousands of times about how their sensibilities were so offended during last year's protests- the point is that their outrage was entirely confected trash, posted by trash.

Your response isnt viable. You attempted to draw a distinction by saying that no one would be justifying it, which was also demonstrably false.

Who is justifying it? I've not seen a single justification. There's literally zero regular posters in here who have. Unlike the earlier protests/riots where justification or refusal to condemn was reasonably common. I'm seen by far lefties as far right, so I'll say it was disgusting and I don't care that a couple of these w***ers were killed during the process. Same as the BLM rioters, w***ers all.

 

[1970crow]

Just a little note regarding context.

BLM rallies started following a string of unnecessary deaths at the hands of police of a.particular ethnic group. One that had been enslaved less than 100 years prior.

MAGA rallies started because the leader of the biggest democracy in the world decided it was impossible that he lost the election to sleepy Joe, and incited his supporters with reckless conspiracy theories and angry rhetoric.

Whilst both devolved into violence, personally I have less of a problem with a movement opposing ongoing discrimination and racial inequality than one whipped up by a narcissist wannabe dictator who, let's be honest, couldn't really give a sh*t about the people who support him (aside from the votes they provide).

Not condoning violence in either case, but let's not bullshit about comparing the two. It's not apples with apples.

There is no context. Once a black person comes into contact with police they are no more likely to die at the hands of police than white people. This is an indisputable fact. The issue is not the treatment when contact occurs, the issue is the relative rate of contact. This is what is so infuriating about people like you. You refuse to see the actual issue. Black peoples, here and in the US, aren't treated differently at all, but they are massively over-represented among the numbers who have contact with the criminal system. It's not a problem that needs to be addressed at police level, it's a problem that needs to be addressed by society.

Here it is simply for the cheap seats. White or black, once a police person has cause to engage with you in the course of their duties, you are no more likely to die dependent upon the colour of your skin. But black peoples per capita are far more likely to be engaged by police persons during the course of their business.

This is exceedingly simple stuff, but yet there's a lot of you who refuse to understand this. I really don't get why you ignore this simple reality. It can't be ignorance because I've been very clear and the numbers don't lie. So it's either stupidity or deliberate.

 

[kirky]

Obviously charges need to be laid. So many laws have been broken, it’s a no brainer.
But Pelosi and Joe Biden calling them terrorists is a big chunk of hyperbole. Even they got caught up in the emotions of it.
Can guarantee no one will be charged with terrorism. Trespassing, vandalism etc will be closer to the charges.

I’d wait to see what comes out of all this - there were a number of people that had zip ties (the sort of thing when you have someone hostage).

Follow this Twitter feed - if true then quite disturbing



And this bloke tasered himself in the nuts and suffered a heart attack and died. Needing the big guns to over compensate for another small package.

 

[kirky]

There is no context. Once a black person comes into contact with police they are no more likely to die at the hands of police than white people. This is an indisputable fact. The issue is not the treatment when contact occurs, the issue is the relative rate of contact. This is what is so infuriating about people like you. You refuse to see the actual issue. Black peoples, here and in the US, aren't treated differently at all, but they are massively over-represented among the numbers who have contact with the criminal system. It's not a problem that needs to be addressed at police level, it's a problem that needs to be addressed by society.

Here it is simply for the cheap seats. White or black, once a police person has cause to engage with you in the course of their duties, you are no more likely to die dependent upon the colour of your skin. But black peoples per capita are far more likely to be engaged by police persons during the course of their business.

This is exceedingly simple stuff, but yet there's a lot of you who refuse to understand this. I really don't get why you ignore this simple reality. It can't be ignorance because I've been very clear and the numbers don't lie. So it's either stupidity or deliberate.

I’m just going to be blunt and say it is easy to say when the colour of your skin is white. End of story.

 

[mistylake]

I’m just going to be clueless and say it is easy to say when the colour of your skin is white. End of story.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Ha ha, can't argue against the real stats, so this is your response. Good stuff *******. Try using your brain every now and again.

The guy who doesnt understand what "per capita" means is lecturing me about stats.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Just a protest that turned violent. Nothing to be concerned about here.

 

[mistylake]

Just a protest that turned violent. Nothing to be concerned about here.

I think they might be building a cubby house for the white dummy to play in.

 

[JP Sauce]

Black peoples, here and in the US, aren't treated differently at all, but they are massively over-represented among the numbers who have contact with the criminal system.

So they are treated differently. You just said it.

But black peoples per capita are far more likely to be engaged by police persons during the course of their business.

There you go saying it again.

...the numbers don't lie.

Correct.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Who is justifying it? I've not seen a single justification. There's literally zero regular posters in here who have. Unlike the earlier protests/riots where justification or refusal to condemn was reasonably common. I'm seen by far lefties as far right, so I'll say it was disgusting and I don't care that a couple of these w***ers were killed during the process. Same as the BLM rioters, w***ers all.

This is just ******* odd.

The 'regular posters' are hiding. That's literally the point. And you use that hiding as a defence? If they hide long enough it masks their massive hypocrisy? They said, in the equivalent thread, there was an express duty to condemn. So where the * are they?

You've only used this to speak about your delusions of the left. Time this fake impartiality came off?

 

[Southerntakeover]

Just a little note regarding context.

BLM rallies started following a string of unnecessary deaths at the hands of police of a.particular ethnic group. One that had been enslaved less than 100 years prior.

MAGA rallies started because the leader of the biggest democracy in the world decided it was impossible that he lost the election to sleepy Joe, and incited his supporters with reckless conspiracy theories and angry rhetoric.

Whilst both devolved into violence, personally I have less of a problem with a movement opposing ongoing discrimination and racial inequality than one whipped up by a narcissist wannabe dictator who, let's be honest, couldn't really give a sh*t about the people who support him (aside from the votes they provide).

Not condoning violence in either case, but let's not bullshit about comparing the two. It's not apples with apples.

Of course a protest to not be killed by the police isnt the same as a criticism that your political persuasion couldnt lose an election.

Only the worst scum are drawing equivalency.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Finding any sort of equivalence to largely peaceful protests with legitimate grievances vs storming the capital because your preferred political canididate lost an election. I can smell the white persecution complex wafting out of those posts.

 

[mistylake]

 

[Crow Envy]

Interesting footage, bunch of numb nuts

 

[Crow Envy]

Finding any sort of equivalence to largely peaceful protests with legitimate grievances vs storming the capital because your preferred political canididate lost an election. I can smell the white persecution complex wafting out of those posts.

Not condoning the riots at all, I think Trump is a campaigner and his supporters are *******s, but they did it for more than just losing an election, Trump has them believing it was stolen, in effective their democratic rights have been taken away from them and their leader called for it and they followed.

 

[mistylake]

So they are treated differently. You just said it.

There you go saying it again.

Correct.

Manipulating the truth to try appear clever doesn’t change the facts.

What 1970crow is saying is that it’s not law enforcement going around picking on a certain race of people. What happens when they get called to a job is they are finding a disproportionate (to populations) amount of African Americans are doing crimes. They are then treating everyone pretty much the same.
It happens the same with indigenous peoples in Australia. The police have to arrest them, once they get there, it’s their job.
The true problem is why are some groups over represented in committing these criminal acts.
The police are just dealing with the symptoms not the root of the cause.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Not condoning the riots at all, I think Trump is a campaigner and his supporters are *******s, but they did it for more than just losing an election, Trump has them believing it was stolen, in effective their democratic rights have been taken away from them and their leader called for it and they followed.

I know. They're a bunch of gullible ******* idiots for believing Trump won the election. Not only are they traitorous pieces of s**t, they're also some of the dumbest *ers on the planet.

 

[feenix67]

Manipulating the truth to try appear clever doesn’t change the facts.

What 1970crow is saying is that it’s not law enforcement going around picking on a certain race of people. What happens when they get called to a job is they are finding a disproportionate (to populations) amount of African Americans are doing crimes. They are then treating everyone pretty much the same.
It happens the same with indigenous peoples in Australia. The police have to arrest them, once they get there, it’s their job.
The true problem is why are some groups over represented in committing these criminal acts.
The police are just dealing with the symptoms not the root of the cause.

So you're saying the problem is those damn criminal non whites? Come on.