MRP / Trib. Rhyan Mansell hit on James Aish

[Zevon]

Folks, bear in mind that this thread is about Rhyan Mansell on James Aish

Multiple players found. Use birthday to differentiate. eg [PLAYERCARD="23/11/1962"]Joe Smith[/PLAYERCARD]

. It isn’t an open invitation to drop by and ask why Gary Rohan

23

Gary Rohan

Age

32

Ht

189cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.6

2star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.5

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.8

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.3

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

4.2

5star

G

1.2

4star

wasn’t suspended for friendly fire on his own team mate.

I understand the arguments you’re making, I really do, but at the end of the day the MRO & tribunal only look at contact when it’s on an opponent.

Arguing that contact on a team mate should be part of their purview is opening up a whole new can of worms, and I’m just not sure we want to go there. In any case it definitely doesn’t belong in this thread.

Thanks, Zev.

 

[Purple Suit]

If you just change one word "opponent" then Rohan gets 4 weeks. Amazing.

Rules / Laws are funny like that.

 

[Purple Suit]

I'm with most people in here in thinking that Rohan should not suffer any repercussions for the hit, but it is a great example of how accidents in footy occur.

With regard to "guidelines" and "opponent" - has either been specifically defined. To me "guidelines" suggest that they are only a framework to move around within and not hard and fast rules. And an opponent could be a few things - someone on the opposite side is the obvious definition, but it could also loosely be just someone else contesting the ball or in a contest at a specific time.

From the Mansell ruling:
"It's important to note that under this provision, it does not matter whether the bump was reasonable or unreasonable. The only question is whether Mansell bumped Aish. We find that he did.
"This bump caused forceful contact to Aish's head. The question then arises as to whether Mansell was contesting the ball. We find that he was not.
"From a meter or two prior to the collision, he turned and bumped. His hands were not reaching for the ball."

Change the names and their is no difference.

From Lisa Hannon, who represented the AFL at Mansell's appeal:
“The meaning of ‘bump’ or the act of bumping shouldn’t be constrained narrowly, but given a wide interpretation, consistent with the remedial purpose of affording players protection in their on-field workplace.”

Surely Cameron needs protect in his workplace from opponents and teammates alike.

In short, the rules are a mess. The AFL needs to tear them up and start again and needs to happen immediately.

I'm not sure why you think Mansell was so hard done by. Are far as the line goes, he was right on it and only just fell into the suspend category.

Mansell - just over
Cripps - over (got off due to loophole / AFL )
De Goey - way over
Stewart - way over

If you choose to bump & hit the head you are in trouble, it has been the rules for nearly a decade or more. If they let it slide, then the 2nd person to the ball can bump without a worry.

The only thing that concerns me is that De Goey & Mansell get the same punishment. Mansell should have been 2 weeks max and I thought De Goey should have been on a 4 week holiday. Maybe they need another grading system - Contest, Late or off ball so there is a difference in punishment depending on how much time the offender had to change their mind.

 

[Roby]

I'm not sure why you think Mansell was so hard done by. Are far as the line goes, he was right on it and only just fell into the suspend category.

Mansell - just over
Cripps - over (got off due to loophole / AFL )
De Goey - way over
Stewart - way over

If you choose to bump & hit the head you are in trouble, it has been the rules for nearly a decade or more. If they let it slide, then the 2nd person to the ball can bump without a worry.

The only thing that concerns me is that De Goey & Mansell get the same punishment. Mansell should have been 2 weeks max and I thought De Goey should have been on a 4 week holiday. Maybe they need another grading system - Contest, Late or off ball so there is a difference in punishment depending on how much time the offender had to change their mind.

Mansell did not choose to bump, he chose to contest the ball.

 

[Roby]

Folks, bear in mind that this thread is about Rhyan Mansell on James Aish. It isn’t an open invitation to drop by and ask why Gary Rohan wasn’t suspended for friendly fire on his own team mate.

I understand the arguments you’re making, I really do, but at the end of the day the MRO & tribunal only look at contact when it’s on an opponent.

Arguing that contact on a team mate should be part of their purview is opening up a whole new can of worms, and I’m just not sure we want to go there. In any case it definitely doesn’t belong in this thread.

Thanks, Zev.

This is exactly what the AFL run media like to say.

And no point is anyone happy that players are concussed, and in a perfect world nobody would ever be concussed. But this is a high speed game with hard hitting contest and players, there are collisions and inveriably concussions.

What happened to Jeremy Cameron just highlights that a lot these suspensions are actually just football plays or actions. There is no intent to hurt players.

 

[Zevon]

This is exactly what the AFL run media like to say.

And no point is anyone happy that players are concussed, and in a perfect world nobody would ever be concussed. But this is a high speed game with hard hitting contest and players, there are collisions and inveriably concussions.

What happened to Jeremy Cameron just highlights that a lot these suspensions are actually just football plays or actions. There is no intent to hurt players.

The AFL media likes to say that we should leave discussion of Gary Rohan out of a Mansell-Aish thread? Weird but ok.

 

[Roby]

The AFL media likes to say that we should leave discussion of Gary Rohan out of a Mansell-Aish thread? Weird but ok.

Either your misunderstood or misrepresenting. I'm saying you're parroting what they're saying.

But good to see you cut off the most salient part of my post.

 

[BF Tiger]

Folks, bear in mind that this thread is about Rhyan Mansell on James Aish. It isn’t an open invitation to drop by and ask why Gary Rohan wasn’t suspended for friendly fire on his own team mate.

I understand the arguments you’re making, I really do, but at the end of the day the MRO & tribunal only look at contact when it’s on an opponent.

Arguing that contact on a team mate should be part of their purview is opening up a whole new can of worms, and I’m just not sure we want to go there. In any case it definitely doesn’t belong in this thread.

Thanks, Zev.

It's happening becauses the thread regarding Rohan and Cameron deleted. Why was that?

 

[Zevon]

Either your misunderstood or misrepresenting. I'm saying you're parroting what they're saying.

But good to see you cut off the most salient part of my post.

I quoted your post in full, not sure where I cut any point off.

I don’t really care what you feel I’m parroting. I’m simply stating a fact that the tribunal and MRO only look at contact on an opponent. If you feel that should change then you’re welcome to your opinion, but a thread on Mansell-Aish is not the place to discuss it.

 

[BF Tiger]

I quoted your post in full, not sure where I cut any point off.

I don’t really care what you feel I’m parroting. I’m simply stating a fact that the tribunal and MRO only look at contact on an opponent. If you feel that should change then you’re welcome to your opinion, but a thread on Mansell-Aish is not the place to discuss it.

Then let it be discussed in other threads.

 

[Zevon]

It's happening becauses the thread regarding Rohan and Cameron deleted. Why was that?

Then let it be discussed in other threads.

If you want to discuss a moderation decision then a PM is more appropriate, but I’ll answer here so that others are aware of the reasoning as well.

The other threads were deleted or closed because 99% of the posts were people disingenuously posting “lolololol how many weeks should Rohan get??!” when it’s obvious to anybody with a brain and a knowledge of the rules that he will be getting zero.

Sadly those people ruined it for the very small percentage that wanted to genuinely discuss whether or not we should start penalising players for hits on their own team mates (hint: we don’t).

Again, this thread is for discussion on Mansell-Aish. Nothing more.

 

[Roby]

I quoted your post in full, not sure where I cut any point off.

I don’t really care what you feel I’m parroting. I’m simply stating a fact that the tribunal and MRO only look at contact on an opponent. If you feel that should change then you’re welcome to your opinion, but a thread on Mansell-Aish is not the place to discuss it.

The AFL rules state you can be suspended and reported against an another "person" or opponent. It's in section 22.

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2022/03/28/6d92ed7c-efc2-44dc-86bc-9fa1d9b338ad/2022-Laws-of-the-Game-Booklet.pdf

If a player were to king hit his own team mate in frustration I'm sure that player would be sent straight to the tribunal.

 

[BF Tiger]

If you want to discuss a moderation decision then a PM is more appropriate, but I’ll answer here so that others are aware of the reasoning as well.

The other threads were deleted or closed because 99% of the posts were people disingenuously posting “lolololol how many weeks should Rohan get??!” when it’s obvious to anybody with a brain and a knowledge of the rules that he will be getting zero.

Sadly those people ruined it for the very small percentage that wanted to genuinely discuss whether or not we should start penalising players for hits on their own team mates (hint: we don’t).

Again, this thread is for discussion on Mansell-Aish. Nothing more.

Delete the posts and hand out warnings and penalties for trolling. It's a legitimate football discussion about the rules today and you're not allowing it.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

I'm just glad that fans are pointing out the hypocrisy.
Sen was flooded with people calling in (noone on there with the balls to admit WHY the calls are coming in - don't wanna lose their jobs)

 

[Zevon]

Delete the posts and hand out warnings and penalties for trolling. It's a legitimate football discussion about the rules today and you're not allowing it.

Interesting, since I haven’t handed out a single penalty, so I’m not sure where you’re getting that from. I haven’t needed to, most people get how silly this whole discussion is.

Have you been infracted yourself or are you just assuming that’s what’s been happening?

 

[naysayer]

Folks, bear in mind that this thread is about Rhyan Mansell on James Aish. It isn’t an open invitation to drop by and ask why Gary Rohan wasn’t suspended for friendly fire on his own team mate.

I understand the arguments you’re making, I really do, but at the end of the day the MRO & tribunal only look at contact when it’s on an opponent.

Arguing that contact on a team mate should be part of their purview is opening up a whole new can of worms, and I’m just not sure we want to go there. In any case it definitely doesn’t belong in this thread.

Thanks, Zev.

Fair enough. But maybe then don't delete the "Gary Rohan how many weeks" thread, or unlock the other more sensibly-titled thread that was made subsequently. People obviously want to talk about it.

 

[Blueyboy74]

You know that something is fundamentally wrong with the MRP system when vision on the left results in a two match suspension whilst the one on the right is deemed worthy of a three week ban .

 

[Roby]

View attachment 1750838 View attachment 1750843

You know that something is fundamentally wrong with the MRP system when vision on the left results in a two match suspension whilst the one on the right is deemed worthy of a three week ban .

Mansell shouldn't have got rubbed out he was going for the ball.

 

[Blueyboy74]

Mansell shouldn't have got rubbed out he was going for the ball.

I agree but also accept that other's (and most importantly the Tribunal) saw it as an intention to bump and therefore the duty of care resides with him. Personally, I thought his intent was always the ball right until the moment he realised Aish was going to get there ahead of him but in the same instance, that contact was unavoidable so his intention changed from the ball to 'brace' ... but at no stage was it ever to bump.

Notwithstanding all that, however, even if we do accept that it was a decision to bump, that action is part of the game and permitted in the rules so long as it is executed legally (which it wasn't if we're accepting it was a bump) and within 5 metres of the ball (which it clearly was). So essentially it was a 'football action' gone wrong. On the other hand, what Willie Rioli did was clearly a 'non-football' action that has no place on any football field no matter how well it was or wasn't executed, what degree of force there was or what injuries were suffered by the victim.

Surely those actions have to attract a far harsher penalty than a 'footy' action just to act as a deterrent for anyone else who might be considering a cheap shot ... and on that last point, I maintain that Aish should have anticipated contact too (assuming he wasn't) and could have better protected himself. On the other hand Darcy Cameron, or any player for that matter, would not have been expecting what Willie Rioli did and accordingly, had no opportunity or expectation to protect himself.

 

[HTPunter]

This is exactly what the AFL run media like to say.

And no point is anyone happy that players are concussed, and in a perfect world nobody would ever be concussed. But this is a high speed game with hard hitting contest and players, there are collisions and inveriably concussions.

What happened to Jeremy Cameron just highlights that a lot these suspensions are actually just football plays or actions. There is no intent to hurt players.

Should get an AVO out on yourself if you key your own car

 

[Roby]

Mansell attacking the ball like a maniac today, good to see the BS suspension hasn't dettered him.