Club Focus Richmond 2021 - Tarrant, Gibcus, Brown, Sonsie, Banks, Clarke

[Simche]

Keen for Richmond to take some top talent that other clubs can poach for minimal value in 3-4 years when they're not getting gametime.

Not sure we'll be taking any Tasmanian kids with our picks inside 30 who might want to come home in three or four years.......

Besides if they want to leave for lack of game time, it is likely indicative of us continuing to win premierships.

 

[mrposhman]

Short answer: no.

Long answer is that we wouldn't give up a top 10 (11 after Daicos/Darcy bids) to gain points for players we are likely to get anyway. Worst case scenario we go into deficit for next year (well the actual worst case is they both are selected top 20 and we don't get to match bids).

Realistically, we'll probably trade future picks if we need more points, but there's no way we're trading Pick 9 for selections outside the top 20 which would just result in us matching bids on players we could match bids without sacrificing P9/P11.

I hope that doesn't come across as rude, I really like how you've positioned your draft hand this year - just that we're unlikely to be the trade partner you're looking for. Even if you don't find a suitor to trade up with, you end up with five shots at quality players. I don't see how you guys don't come out of this draft with a winning hand, now it's just a matter of whether that hand is a pair of aces or a royal flush.

I agree that you wouldn't trade out of the top 20.

I do wonder, if you may be tempted to trade down a bit and knock off 2 birds with 1 stone. You guys look a million dollars when you move the ball quickly, and IMO you need more run coming our of your backhalf. Sinn seems perfect for Saints, so wondering if they might be tempted into Pick 15 and 28 for Pick 9 and Pick 62.

28 might be enough to get both Owens and Windhager and you take Sinn (who has massive upside and would play early for the Saints). This would be enough to match a bid at 24 for Owens and 32 for Windhager for example (or a mixture of those as Ownes could be picked higher and Windhager lower).

 

[juss]

Interesting that some believe that this is a weak draft. I think its actually a very strong draft but with potential draftees having considerably less exposure to other years, its a draft where you can find far more hidden gems than normal.

There is no weak/strong drafts until 3-5 years later when you can start to make some assessments with some form and data.
This draft could produce HOFers or a disappointing first round, getting into a good development system is far more important than subjective junior talent.

 

[sydney_gws]

I agree that you wouldn't trade out of the top 20.

I do wonder, if you may be tempted to trade down a bit and knock off 2 birds with 1 stone. You guys look a million dollars when you move the ball quickly, and IMO you need more run coming our of your backhalf. Sinn seems perfect for Saints, so wondering if they might be tempted into Pick 15 and 28 for Pick 9 and Pick 62.

28 might be enough to get both Owens and Windhager and you take Sinn (who has massive upside and would play early for the Saints). This would be enough to match a bid at 24 for Owens and 32 for Windhager for example (or a mixture of those as Ownes could be picked higher and Windhager lower).

If they do that trade, saints can always trade 28 into two lower picks to get more points. They could get 40,41 from North, or probably an even better deal than that.

 

[BrutThough]

If they do that trade, saints can always trade 28 into two lower picks to get more points. They could get 40,41 from North, or probably an even better deal than that.

We will be able to get enough points without downgrading our first round pick.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Is there a chance Richmond dont put all eggs in one basket for example move one of those 2nd rounders to a better 2nd rounder next year?

There is only two scenarios I see where the Tigers would be likely to live trade any of our picks, the first one more likely than the second.

1) That we fill our boots with a slider or two and satisfy list needs with our first four picks, thus freeing up #28 for an oppo team with minimal picks between #20 and #50 to pounce on a player they weren't expecting to slide to #28, possibly a local boy. It would require a 2022 2nd + 3rd rounder coming back Richmond's way if this particular oppo looks like being a contender next year, or maybe a 2nd + 4th from an oppo we perceive as less ambitious in 2022.

2) GWS take Callaghan at #2, Ward and Hobbs are gone by #7, but Andrew is still there. This might tempt GWS to cough up #13 and a 2022 1st rounder to grab Andrew at #7, maybe with some steak knives also changing hands.

But I'd be more than content to just take our five existing picks into the draft.

 

[juss]

Is there any play that let's us package up 2 of the late 20s picks for another first?

Using points equivalent 26 + 27 is roughly pick 10, but if there's no one needing points it's hard to do. Would 26 + 27 give us a mid teens pick?

Something like 7, 14, 15, 28 as an example would then be our first 4 picks

 

[Keystone agony]

Is there any play that let's us package up 2 of the late 20s picks for another first?

Using points equivalent 26 + 27 is roughly pick 10, but if there's no one needing points it's hard to do. Would 26 + 27 give us a mid teens pick?

Something like 7, 14, 15, 28 as an example would then be our first 4 picks

Cant really see anyone wanting to do that

Maybe Port if they want to keep to the locals and feel they could still be around later but even then i think theyre confident in non locals with the way Duursma and Butters turned out

With the lack of viewing i suspect most sides will see a mid teen pick as extremely more significant than 2 late 20s

 

[mrposhman]

We will be able to get enough points without downgrading our first round pick.

Of course you can with future picks.

I was initially indicating an option that wouldn't need the Saints to dip into next years draft currency whilst also getting a top tier player who suits their style. I'd think Sinn was perfect for the Saints and wouldn't need to be picked at Pick 9 (11).

 

[BrutThough]

Of course you can with future picks.

I was initially indicating an option that wouldn't need the Saints to dip into next years draft currency whilst also getting a top tier player who suits their style. I'd think Sinn was perfect for the Saints and wouldn't need to be picked at Pick 9 (11).

Sinn is who I am hoping we get, but trading down to pick 15 (17) would be risky because he'd also suit some clubs who would then pick before us. I could see us just taking him with pick 9.

We've indicated that we'd like to trade back into the 2nd or 3rd round this year but wouldnt be able to do it until the night. So if we were to do the trade you suggested, it would likely need to be done as 2 seperate trades at the time of the picks so the 20s pick doesn't get used in a bid.

 

[danielG]

Sinn is who I am hoping we get, but trading down to pick 15 (17) would be risky because he'd also suit some clubs who would then pick before us. I could see us just taking him with pick 9.

We've indicated that we'd like to trade back into the 2nd or 3rd round this year but wouldnt be able to do it until the night. So if we were to do the trade you suggested, it would likely need to be done as 2 seperate trades at the time of the picks so the 20s pick doesn't get used in a bid.

I would think Sinn goes early teens. I could see Sinn being a target for the Hawks but our pick 5 is too early, not that he's not good enough to warrant that pick but there are a few guys above him with runs on the board. Wonder if Tigers and Hawks swap picks 7 & 15 for 5 & 21. Tigers get better shot at Hobbs assuming he's your guy, Hawks go back to 7, get Sinn (still a little early but will definitely be there at that pick and move up a few places form 21 to 15.

 

[BrutThough]

I would think Sinn goes early teens. I could see Sinn being a target for the Hawks but our pick 5 is too early, not that he's not good enough to warrant that pick but there are a few guys above him with runs on the board. Wonder if Tigers and Hawks swap picks 7 & 15 for 5 & 21. Tigers get better shot at Hobbs assuming he's your guy, Hawks go back to 7, get Sinn (still a little early but will definitely be there at that pick and move up a few places form 21 to 15.

Not keen on Ward for the Hawks?

Presumably, Richmond could stay at their pick and still get Hobbs given Ward appears to be a better fit to Hawthorns needs and Freo have 2 WA guys who fill needs sitting there for them on a silver platter.

 

[danielG]

Not keen on Ward for the Hawks?

Presumably, Richmond could stay at their pick and still get Hobbs given Ward appears to be a better fit to Hawthorns needs and Freo have 2 WA guys who fill needs sitting there for them on a silver platter.

I'm open minded. Ward will be a very good selection & won't be complainign if we keep 5 and get him at that selection but I don't mind the idea of gambling a bit to get a better draft hand & I think Sinn could be just as good as Callaghan if he develops his midfield craft and inside game. It's a big If but the potential is there.

 

[Orange crush]

2) GWS take Callaghan at #2, Ward and Hobbs are gone by #7, but Andrew is still there. This might tempt GWS to cough up #13 and a 2022 1st rounder to grab Andrew at #7, maybe with some steak knives also changing hands.

But I'd be more than content to just take our five existing picks into the draft.

18 and 13 for 7? With something thrown in .... sounds ok

 

[GhostofJimJess]

18 and 13 for 7? With something thrown in .... sounds ok

Dunno about #18, but there's nothing to suggest your first pick next year won't have "teen" at the end of it. If we missed are prime target at #7 whoever that might - after all, we're all really just guessing here - then I'd definitely entertain the idea of a live trade for GWS's #13 and 2022 1st rounder.

 

[Hazardinho]

It'd be interesting who Fremantle select with 6, if i'm Richmond, I'd probably take Erasmus if Freo think a key forward is the absolute priority position with their first pick. I don't know if i'd want Hobbs more than a Erasmus type, from a Richmond perspective, unless RCD fulfils that spot.

 

[Keystone agony]

It'd be interesting who Fremantle select with 6, if i'm Richmond, I'd probably take Erasmus if Freo think a key forward is the absolute priority position with their first pick. I don't know if i'd want Hobbs more than a Erasmus type, from a Richmond perspective, unless RCD fulfils that spot.

Id be taking Amiss if i was freo first up

Richmond seem more keen on Hobbs or have atleast been linked whereas Erazmus seems to be only linked to WA sides for now and im not sure if thats just people putting 1+1 together

Some clubs probably havnt/have barely seen him play live. I think Richmond like Hobbs leadership ability to take over from Cotch, Riewoldt, Grimes ect

I dont think freo are purely keeping to the WA state they will take whoever they feels best. Been linked to Goater aswell. However if they want to keep local and Richmond take Erazmus then they have Matt Johnson as an option who has proven much more at the higher level and some see as the best WA mid here anyway

 

[Hazardinho]

Id be taking Amiss if i was freo first up

Richmond seem more keen on Hobbs or have atleast been linked whereas Erazmus seems to be only linked to WA sides for now and im not sure if thats just people putting 1+1 together

Some clubs probably havnt/have barely seen him play live. I think Richmond like Hobbs leadership ability to take over from Cotch, Riewoldt, Grimes ect

I dont think freo are purely keeping to the WA state they will take whoever they feels best. Been linked to Goater aswell. However if they want to keep local and Richmond take Erazmus then they have Matt Johnson as an option who has proven much more at the higher level and some see as the best WA mid here anyway

I hear that, but the way the games going, is Erasmus ability and scope to play inside/outside mid and have stints playing in the forward line, might be too good to pass up on for a player like Hobbs, who is good, but isn't the best athlete and ceiling i wouldn't think is the same as Erasmus. Richmond will regardless get a good player, but i feel players like Hobbs you can find them in each draft but its harder to have access to a player in the profile of Erasmus, who has the skillset, height, versatility and ceiling to be a special player, especially with these attributes they normally are top 5 picks. I can see the appeal for Hobbs, as he has immense work-rate, wins his own ball, clean hands, leadership qualities and would be a great Cotchin replacement, would be able to contribute immediately but Richmond has so many picks, so maybe its better to take a chance on a non-local kid who could be anything, or at the very least a top 15 best player at your club, and look for a profile similar to a hobbs at pick 15.

 

[Keystone agony]

I hear that, but the way the games going, is Erasmus ability and scope to play inside/outside mid and have stints playing in the forward line, might be too good to pass up on for a player like Hobbs, who is good, but isn't the best athlete and ceiling i wouldn't think is the same as Erasmus. Richmond will regardless get a good player, but i feel players like Hobbs you can find them in each draft but its harder to have access to a player in the profile of Erasmus, who has the skillset, height, versatility and ceiling to be a special player, especially with these attributes they normally are top 5 picks. I can see the appeal for Hobbs, as he has immense work-rate, wins his own ball, clean hands, leadership qualities and would be a great Cotchin replacement, would be able to contribute immediately but Richmond has so many picks, so maybe its better to take a chance on a non-local kid who could be anything, or at the very least a top 15 best player at your club, and look for a profile similar to a hobbs at pick 15.

Well if Richmond see him as the better player they no doubt take him. Richmond have shown theyre not against drafting kids from outside the state either and have always backed themselves to keep them.

I was told by good friends of Shai Bolton that hed be home after 2 years and even when big coin got thrown at him, he still didnt want to leave.

The high ceiling guys dont always get to that ceiling and often dont. Not saying thats necessarily the case with Erazmus, ive only watched twice

 

[Hazardinho]

Well if Richmond see him as the better player they no doubt take him. Richmond have shown theyre not against drafting kids from outside the state either and have always backed themselves to keep them.

I was told by good friends of Shai Bolton that hed be home after 2 years and even when big coin got thrown at him, he still didnt want to leave.

The high ceiling guys dont always get to that ceiling and often dont. Not saying thats necessarily the case with Erazmus, ive only watched twice

But is Hobbs even the guy they want, i feel they'd probably want Andrew, Callaghan, Gibcus with their pick. I still feel clubs aren't fully decided on who they want, as they've been pushing for at least a training session after the draftees exams to see first hand.

 

[northeasttiger]

Hobbs is an interesting pick,

He is not fast
He is not agile
His tank isn't the biggest
His kicking is average
He has no x factor

So why do many rate him in the top 10 and why are Richmond continually linked to him?

 

[Keystone agony]

But is Hobbs even the guy they want, i feel they'd probably want Andrew, Callaghan, Gibcus with their pick. I still feel clubs aren't fully decided on who they want, as they've been pushing for at least a training session after the draftees exams to see first hand.

Hobbs is an interesting pick,

He is not fast
He is not agile
His tank isn't the biggest
His kicking is average
He has no x factor

So why do many rate him in the top 10 and why are Richmond continually linked to him?

He might not be, it might be as simple as some putting 1 and 1 together being that they need a midfielder and they need future leadership/captaincy

Are his traits similar enough to Selwood or Cotchin?

I suppose Cotchin was an elite kick and also very agile. Whilst Selwood ive always thought his speed was under rated but still not many would say hes quick.

Is Selwood any of fast, agile, great kick, x factor or stamina beast?

 

[juss]

Hobbs is an interesting pick,

He is not fast
He is not agile
His tank isn't the biggest
His kicking is average
He has no x factor

So why do many rate him in the top 10 and why are Richmond continually linked to him?

Because he pretty much fits exactly what we need, a good sized potentially impact next year inside midfielder. Leadership, works hard both ways, clearances and consistent output. Cotchin is pretty much done and Prestia's body/injury history doesn't fill anyone with confidence.

I think he's seen as a safe pick to be a good player, maybe a lower ceiling than others, but a higher floor than others too.

Not sure if we go this way, but I can see the appeal.

 

[northeasttiger]

You have just described Jack Ross

5

Jack Ross

Age

23

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

2.7

4star

CL

3.0

4star

D

13.7

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.7

3star

CL

2.0

4star

D

17.8

5star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.8

5star

CL

3.0

5star

but Jack Ross

5

Jack Ross

Age

23

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

2.7

4star

CL

3.0

4star

D

13.7

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.7

3star

CL

2.0

4star

D

17.8

5star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.8

5star

CL

3.0

5star

is a better kick and faster.

 

[juss]

You have just described Jack Ross but Jack Ross is a better kick and faster.

Jack Ross is a similar type of player. I think Hobbs is definitely better at the same age and with more upside. Hobbs will be a top 10 pick, Ross was never in that conversation as a junior.