Rolling Ashes Squad Thread, now featuring Haddin XII v Hick XII beginning p. 147

[Seedsfan]

Well incumbancy over Bancroft, and averaging more in test cricket, whilst also having 160 more runs than Burns and averaging 35.5 more in Shield cricket. Are you seriously saying that a 26 year old that is looking likely to have a 1000+ run season (which hasn't happened since the 14/15 season) is unlikely to go on an overseas tour where we haven't won since 2001?

Somewhere we haven’t won since 01 and what is the best way to win there to pick players with form and runs over there or someone who has never batted over there? If someone is able to prove themselves in those conditions it is who the selectors are going to pick.

For arguments sake because he played bloody well for WA let’s say Bangers make 4 100s in 7 games over there and is averaging 50 do you over look him because someone has form on Australian wickets or do you pick the bloke who has shown they have the technique and game to perform in England?

It was not a wise decision from any batsmen who desire to get an ashes gig to knock back playing county cricket. If I was in Harris’s position I would have been desperate to play country cricket so that my destiny was in my own hands

 

[Damon_3388]

Surely Jackson Bird is firmly in the frame? Leading wicket-taker in the Shield this season, and has given a decent account of himself in previous Tests.

Current Shield season - 7 matches, 38 wickets @ 19.10 average, 41.74 strike rate, 2.74 economy rate (3 5-fers)

Career Shield record - 49 matches, 237 wickets @ 20.57 average, 42.61 strike rate, 2.89 economy rate (14 5-fers)

Career Test record - 9 matches, 34 wickets @ 30.64 average, 56.88 strike rate, 3.23 economy rate (1 5-fer)

 

[eth-dog]

Somewhere we haven’t won since 01 and what is the best way to win there to pick players with form and runs over there or someone who has never batted over there? If someone is able to prove themselves in those conditions it is who the selectors are going to pick.

For arguments sake because he played bloody well for WA let’s say Bangers make 4 100s in 7 games over there and is averaging 50 do you over look him because someone has form on Australian wickets or do you pick the bloke who has shown they have the technique and game to perform in England?

It was not a wise decision from any batsmen who desire to get an ashes gig to knock back playing county cricket. If I was in Harris’s position I would have been desperate to play country cricket so that my destiny was in my own hands

I'm saying it would be daft to not pick a bloke who was far from disgraceful in test cricket this summer after a (likely at this stage) 1000 run season.

 

[Pykie]

So? Renshaw was the third highest run scorer in the 2018 calendar year and due to lack of form at the start of the year missed selection. So hypothetically lets say Renshaw continues his run of poor form in England that rules him out but what if Banger and Burns are both making big runs in English conditions would you expect someone to get picked of the back of what they did for Victoria 5-9 months earlier over them?

The counter point is if all three of them fail in England no matter how well any of them finish the year they will rule themselves out

Somewhere we haven’t won since 01 and what is the best way to win there to pick players with form and runs over there or someone who has never batted over there? If someone is able to prove themselves in those conditions it is who the selectors are going to pick.

For arguments sake because he played bloody well for WA let’s say Bangers make 4 100s in 7 games over there and is averaging 50 do you over look him because someone has form on Australian wickets or do you pick the bloke who has shown they have the technique and game to perform in England?

It was not a wise decision from any batsmen who desire to get an ashes gig to knock back playing county cricket. If I was in Harris’s position I would have been desperate to play country cricket so that my destiny was in my own hands

You are missing the point.

Harris will be playing FC cricket in England.

For Australia A.

 

[Seedsfan]

I'm saying it would be daft to not pick a bloke who was far from disgraceful in test cricket this summer after a (likely at this stage) 1000 run season.

Yet no exposed form in the UK. That’s the big sticking point and they have shown they will pick on current form and not on a players record. Thats why Harris got the nod over Renshaw at the start of the summer. He looks set to end the summer in front of the cue but after that he is no longer master of his own destiny. Also I don’t think in Bandcroft’s case his lack of runs at the start of the summer will hurt due to the fact of the suspension.

 

[Seedsfan]

You are missing the point.

Harris will be playing FC cricket in England.

For Australia A.

He won’t be playing as many games and we all know nations normally put out sub standard teams for tour games. You would be much better playing county cricket where there is meaning in the game and something on the line

 

[Pykie]

He won’t be playing as many games and we all know nations normally put out sub standard teams for tour games. You would be much better playing county cricket where there is meaning in the game and something on the line

There are 7 FC games scheduled for the A series.

1 of them is against the full England A setup.

Another is against the Australian test side.

Sorry, but I think you seriously overrate the general standard of bowling in county cricket.

He definitely has enough time there to get used to the conditions. It's essentially an old school pre-tour schedule

 

[Seedsfan]

There are 7 FC games scheduled for the A series.

1 of them is against the full England A setup.

Another is against the Australian test side.

Sorry, but your wrong.

So 5 games there against what will be little more then a development team. Before you say that look at the sides we put out for tour games

 

[a mayes ing]

So? Renshaw was the third highest run scorer in the 2018 calendar year and due to lack of form at the start of the year missed selection. So hypothetically lets say Renshaw continues his run of poor form in England that rules him out but what if Banger and Burns are both making big runs in English conditions would you expect someone to get picked of the back of what they did for Victoria 5-9 months earlier over them?

The counter point is if all three of them fail in England no matter how well any of them finish the year they will rule themselves out

Thats not the point: You said he wont even make the squad. Of course he will. Whether he makes the 11 or not is a different matter. I agree that form over there should take precedence than form over here

 

[a mayes ing]

There are 7 FC games scheduled for the A series.

1 of them is against the full England A setup.

Another is against the Australian test side.

Sorry, but I think you seriously overrate the general standard of bowling in county cricket.

He definitely has enough time there to get used to the conditions. It's essentially an old school pre-tour schedule

I reckon this could be our best chance at winning against England. We have the World Cup and plenty of time in England to get acclimatised. Also, many of our test players aren't in the 1 day team, meaning they will be practiing long form cricket. Pretty sure the only test players in the 1 day team are Khwaaja, Smith, Warner, and the bowling lineup minus Lyon.

 

[Pykie]

So 5 games there against what will be little more then a development team. Before you say that look at the sides we put out for tour games

These aren't tour games..........

This is an A tour.

Countries respect them.

Curran, Woakes, Foakes, Porter, Burns, Malan and Alistair Cook all played in the England A vs India A side that toured around India's tour last year.

Queensland put out a full strength XI for England A's last tour match on our soil.

 

[a mayes ing]

These aren't tour games..........

This is an A tour.

Countries respect them.

Curran, Woakes, Foakes, Porter, Burns, Malan and Alistair Cook all played in the England A vs India A side that toured around India's tour last year.

Queensland put out a full strength XI for England A's last tour match on our soil.

Not really. These were the players in that team:

Bryce Street
Max Bryan
Peter Forrest
Sam Heazlett
Nathan McSweeney
Harrison Wood
Lachlan Pfeffer
Jason Floros
Ben Cutting
Nathan Rimmington
Mark Steketee
Matthew Kuhnemann

There are a few first choice players there but Bryant and Heazlett were still very young and l don't think they were constants in the team at that time.

 

[Tigerssaints]

Khwaaja, brother getting arrested did not help ! so he will go .

Warner , has to win "the dressing room back "
i here it will not be as easy as he thinks

 

[Walt Kowalski]

This is what I'd like to see as the Ashes squad:

D.Warner
M.Harris
C.Bancroft
S.Smith
J.Burns
K.Patterson
T.Paine + c
P.Cummins vc
M.Starc
N.Lyon
J.Hazelwood

J.Richardson
JBird
M.Wade +
S.O'Keefe
W.Pukovski

Wade reserve keeper and bat.

Four guys who can open in the first XI so no need for a reserve opener

O'Keefe still the second best spinner imo

Pukovski along for the experience more than anything.

 

[a mayes ing]

This is what I'd like to see as the Ashes squad:

D.Warner
M.Harris
C.Bancroft
S.Smith
J.Burns
K.Patterson
T.Paine + c
P.Cummins vc
M.Starc
N.Lyon
J.Hazelwood

J.Richardson
JBird
M.Wade +
S.O'Keefe
W.Pukovski

Wade reserve keeper and bat.

Four guys who can open in the first XI so no need for a reserve opener

O'Keefe still the second best spinner imo

Pukovski along for the experience more than anything.

Few issues with that squad:
No Head, l can understand not in the 11 but he ould def be in the squad.
You need another bat in theb squad if someone goes out of form. So Pucovski goes (if u dont plan on playing him)

 

[Voice of the G]

Few issues with that squad:
No Head, l can understand not in the 11 but he ould def be in the squad.
You need another bat in theb squad if someone goes out of form. So Pucovski goes (if u dont plan on playing him)

Important not to write the guys off playing T20 and 1 day cricket for Australia at the moment.More will be known when the Australia A team plays in England and lets not forgot the Australians playing county cricket this season.You all have left Maxwell out and most likely because we have not seen him play shield or test cricket for over 6 months.

 

[Westend]

Going through this thread there is some good discussion going on about the squad.....should harris be in should Bancroft etc...

Lets remember there is still a lot of cricket to before the squad is picked...3 shield games shield final ODIs plus tour games

Its great that the players are putting there hands up by scoring hundreds..its a great position to be in. That's what the selectors want and they are getting it

There is heaps of cricket left before the final 11 is picked

Good times are a coming

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Wow, what a difference 4 days of Shield cricket seems to make. Suddenly there is competition for spots.

Cant wait to see how the rest of the season goes.

Personally think only Smith and Head are essentially locked into the top 6. I've been a critic of Head but he has just been our best bat all summer and hasnt really put a foot wrong. Cant be dropped.

Warner would also have to look terrible between now and the Ashes too not be in the 11 but he's not in the same bracket as the other two since all the players putting up there hand to play are openers. Will be hard to dislodge though

Personally think Patterson should be in the same bracket as Warner. Young prodigy who has served his time in the Shield and has apparently put it all together at the perfect age and time. Would be perfect at 5/6 and has the technique to succeed in England. Has to play ahead of Lasagna who would be his only real competition you would think.

So then it comes to the battle for 2 more spots in the top 3, and what a battle it looks like being. As it stands, you can make strong claims for all of Khawaja, Burns, Harris and Bancroft though I would argue Khawaja's is currently the weakest. His century against a second string SL attack in an almost dead 2nd innings should basically not count for diddly squat. I wish he hadnt been selected for ODI team so he could try to find some form.

I'm stoked for Bancroft but it will be hard to push out Burns and Harris at this point. Always harder to get in than it is to fall out and Burns and Harris have done nothing wrong so far (Harris just played the best innings of his career as well). Will need to do something special as well as poor performances from the other two to leapfrog them. Burns in particular deserves a good run at it given how he's been shafted so far.

Renshaw is coming from a LONG LONG way back. Will need a mammoth county and A-tour run to get anywhere near it. He's got it in him and I have no doubt he'll play a lot of games for Australia but as it stands, he is not performing while everyone else is.

TLDR; first 11 as it stands (clearly there is a lot to go under the bridge)
Burns
Warner
Harris
Smith
Head
Patterson
Paine
Cummins
Starc/Hazlewood - I prefer Hazlewood if not injured
Richardson - must play, perfect bowler for English conditions
Lyon

That is a mighty fine first 11 if you ask me

 

[JackOutback]

I don't think CA will punt Khawaja for the first Test; he had a poor summer, but much of that could be put down to distractions and with Smith and Warner coming back, he offers a bit of stability. Thus, I think one of Burns or Harris is going to be very unlucky. I suspect the first Test XI will look like:

Warner
Harris
Khawaja
Smith
Head
Patterson
Paine
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood

But Khawaja will be under the pump for Burns and Bancroft in the squad, with Head and Patterson also vulnerable if they get exposed in English conditions.

 

[Westend]

Wow, what a difference 4 days of Shield cricket seems to make. Suddenly there is

TLDR; first 11 as it stands (clearly there is a lot to go under the bridge)
Burns
Warner
Harris
Smith
Head
Patterson
Paine
Cummins
Starc/Hazlewood - I prefer Hazlewood if not injured
Richardson - must play, perfect bowler for English conditions
Lyon

That is a mighty fine first 11 if you ask me

Yeah understand your reasoning but

Burns worries me up the top of the order In England ....I agree Burns deserves a spot ...but he does struggle a lot against the swinging/seaming ball knicks to the slips a lot. This isn't sri lanka he will be facing arguably the best swinger in the modern age in Anderson and Co. Burns can bat in the middle order and I honestly believe he will be best suited for a 5/6 position in English conditions

If this was the 11 I would go

Warner
Harris
Patterson
Smith
Head
Burns
Paine
Cummins
Starc/Richardson.......if its wet Richo plays if its dry Starc
Lyon
Hazelwood

 

[Walt Kowalski]

Few issues with that squad:
No Head, l can understand not in the 11 but he ould def be in the squad.
You need another bat in theb squad if someone goes out of form. So Pucovski goes (if u dont plan on playing him)

Get the feeling Head will be found out in England. If not, well and good, but I wouldnt take him. I like him as a character, just think there are a few technical flaws that will get exposed by Anderson and Broad.

Pukovski can play if needed, but it's unlikely. Wade is the back up bat (as well as keeper), and any of Warner, Harris, Bancroft and Burns can open if required, so there's plenty of flexibility.

 

[a mayes ing]

Get the feeling Head will be found out in England. If not, well and good, but I wouldnt take him. I like him as a character, just think there are a few technical flaws that will get exposed by Anderson and Broad.

Pukovski can play if needed, but it's unlikely. Wade is the back up bat (as well as keeper), and any of Warner, Harris, Bancroft and Burns can open if required, so there's plenty of flexibility.

Hey l completly agree with what you said in regards to Head and flaws. I also think he will be found out, however he deserves to be playing and definitly in the squad as he has been our best and most consistent run scorer this summer. A fe others that are more likely to be out (Khawaja et.)

Plenty of bats for openers so that isn't the problem but more thinking along the lines of reserves middle order players. L suppose you ould say Bancroft and Burns could play in the middle order if required but if they are the openers and have found form there you don't want to move them. Need someone like a Handscomb who is a specialist middle order player (l am not saying we need him but someone who specialises in the middle order)
Wade is only 1 player and l think there needs to be a bigger sample size than 1 FC match for Wade as this was his 1st match in the middle order. Got a 70 odd but only 15 the next innings.

 

[Cleavy]

Wade is only 1 player and l think there needs to be a bigger sample size than 1 FC match for Wade as this was his 1st match in the middle order. Got a 70 odd but only 15 the next innings.

batting at 6 (which he has done in every Shield game this season, aside from the most recent game) is the middle order...

 

[a mayes ing]

batting at 6 (which he has done in every Shield game this season, aside from the most recent game) is the middle order...

It is very late in the middle order. I agree with the selectors that batting around 4 or so when the ball is still hard would give a good indication of his skill level when the ball is still hard and moving around not dead straight.

 

[eth-dog]

It is very late in the middle order. I agree with the selectors that batting around 4 or so when the ball is still hard would give a good indication of his skill level when the ball is still hard and moving around not dead straight.

Like when he came in after 13 overs and scored 50? Or 16 and scored 63? He's come in when the ball is swinging plenty of times mate.