Do you think that St Kilda can win a flag within the next five years?
Roast St Kilda in no mans land
- Thread starter The Nostradamus
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Judging by our history it's pretty unlikely so I'm really going to stick my back out like you and so no we can't. That way I should be able to join you in the footy Nostradamus club.
Well if that's the case, why should I cop flak for suggesting North Melbourne could be closer to a flag?
Verdun
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Because you are wrong.
I'm not going to act like some nuffy expert about team lists like you, I'll happily admit I don't have a crystal ball about player development. But I can tell you one thing and that is right now we're a lot closer than North.
Barrels
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Clearly…
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If North are closer to a flag then the Saints then we'll take those priority picks right now, thanks AFL!
I agree with this.
They just f**ked up/had bad luck with their crack at the meaty end of the Draft.
Billings (Bont)
McCartin (Petracca and anyone else)
Hunter Clark
Coffield
Even if you land 2 legit guns from that Draft haul, you're looking decent. But they got zilch. Sweet bugger all.
They now have King, NWM and the other kid who looks really good, but I don't know if they'll overlap and align with guys like Hill, Steele, Marshall and Sinclair etc.
FWIW, and it's just an opinion, they're just not really good. They're well coached in the sense that when they all do their role and dig in they're really competitive - but very, very few (if any) teams win a flag off the back of that.
It always comes down to superstar talent. There's the rare exceptions where bone arse luck was the key (Sydney 05 and Bulldogs 16), but that's very rare.
St Kilda won't win a flag with this current list. I think everyone can generally accept that. There are too many other sides with better young talent, a better-experienced nucleus, or both of those. But in five years, most of the older cartel driving you up the ladder will be finished (or close too), and your currently young talent is insufficient to sutain that rise. King is potentially generational, NWM and Windhager look great. Owens I also like the look of. But their development won't align with the careers of Steele, Jones, Crouch, Hill, Marshall, Sinclair, and Howard, who will each be their 30s in five years.
There is little chance this team seriously contends for a flag. Finals are likely, but never a flag. Right now, they are too high up the ladder to attain high picks for young talent, but aren't seriously contending for a premiership. That, to me, is no man's land.
North are in a world of pain right now, but it's quite likely that in five years they have several very high draft picks running around. JHF, Larkey, Zurhaar, LDU, Phillips, Taylor and (hopefully) TT are all great young players who will be in their primes (or close to). Compound this with another #1 pick this year (could be 1 and 2), and another likely top 3 pick next year, the foundation will be set for a rise up the ladder.
Or there's the chance that North Melbourne bungle these picks a la St Kilda style. That could be the case. But I reckon there's a much better chance that they'll be trending upwards while St Kilda will be trending downwards and finally accepting a rebuild.
You can call me a nuffy all you want, but there's reasonable justification to suggest that North is closer to a premiership than St Kilda. Don't be so short-sighted by looking at the ladder.
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I don't get this thought process. Outside Ryder (who should/could be over taken by Marshall), they don't heavily rely on older players. Bradley Hill is nice but he's not quite 29, B.Crouch and Membrey also 28's so it's not like they are stacked with older wise heads.
Verdun
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1. Gresham
2. Owens
3. Marshall
4. NWM
5. Coffield
6. King
7. Bytel
8. Battle
9. Highmore
10. Sharman
11. Clark
12. Windhager
13. Allison
Thirteen St Kilda players who are young with huge upside. Highmore, Sharman, Owens, and Windhager are players a lot do not know about and will be in and out of the team but have huge talent.
Yep, it is ok to critique how draft picks are used but I have confidence in the talent of the players along with Steele, Sinclair, etc to continue to improve.
My long-term critique of the Saints is the lack of class in the midfield and being reliant on Steele.
I like Windhager, NWM, Bytel but we still need some more in the middle. Owens needs time but has talent. If Clark stops banging his head up and has a decent run he has scope to improve help in the midfield as well.
This group of players has the scope to improve while they are competitive not copping 40-100 thrashings every week. With some experienced players like Membrey, Steele, Crouch, Ross and Jones teaching them as well.
The Saints have beaten some handy teams this year including Geelong, Richmond, Hawthorn and Carlton. Their recent losses will make it hard for them to make the finals as they have a hard run home but I would definitely say they have a brighter future than North and have more chance of winning a flag before them.
I really rate Sharman; natural footballer who can play multiple positions and believe he will be a gun (my prediction and will own it)
We are entitled to opinions and watching Max King rove a ball and kick goals makes me think their future is ok!
You can probably make a similar list for nearly every team in the comp that’s not Geelong and a couple of the other older teams. Given you’ve included Gresham I’ll do the Bombers from that draft or after
Parish
Redman
McGrath
Ridley
Draper
Caldwell
Bryan
Jones
Cox
Perkins
Reid
Hobbs
Martin
D’Ambrosio
That’s 14 without even thinking who are at least on par with that Saints list
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joop , projectv , aussierulesrules , StCicatriz and Plugger35 .
Did you lot hear about the free kick count on the blues vs saints game,?
21 to the blues, 9 to the saints!
Exactly. Here are some Dogs from the 2015 draft or later:
Ugle-Hagan
Dunkley
Smith
Darcy
West
Weightman
Richards
Vandermeer
Khamis
Naughton
Williams
English
Bedendo
Those are 13 players that will have no trouble being the core group of players for the next 5-10 years, with at least 7 of those having certifiably A-grade potential, or are already playing at that level.
The Saints have okay young talent, but it certainly isn't enough if you compare it to other developing sides. I mean, the Bulldogs played in a grand final last year and hold a much more impressive roster in this area.
Like I keep saying, the Saints will be a solid team for the next few years with their current list. But I just don't see how they can develop what they currently have into a flag-winning side, especially in time to utilise the experience of their older players. That's why I have them behind North Melbourne in this timeline.
Although it must be said, the Saints are definitely a better run club currently. Who knows if North even be able to develop the talent they currently have, let alone their future top 5 picks.
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... compared to most clubs I think this list actually stinks. King is going to be a star and a few have shown they'll be full-time professional footballers but yeah it's mostly speculation isn't it.
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Engimal v3
**** m**nl*nd*rs
Agreed, Saints are knackered until they accept a rebuild is needed
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Because North are currently a basket case. They have gotten progressively worse this year.
They trimmed valuable experience in 2016 and they hacked the list apart in 2020. They’ve got a bunch of demoralised kids running around not learning anything. Their star pick (JHF) wants out. Their warchest has produced zero results except for blokes like Polec taking the club for a ride. Experienced people in their football department keep leaving the club.
Not every club is guaranteed a natural oscillation from bottoming out to success. Clubs like Geelong show there are other ways. And the inverse can be just as true.
If North are supposedly closer, give me some measurable results on field.
I could easily say "The Dogs can't win another flag with their list" and there'd be a good chance I'd be right. I could say it about most clubs. I'm not going to though because I don't have a clue about their lists or what will happen just like you have no idea about our list or what will happen.
Right now North are further from a flag than any club, if you're genuinely suggesting we need to bottom out like them to somehow get into contention again then you're beyond help.
Maybe the Dogs should go bottom out you look pretty hopeless at the moment, heading for a finish in "no man's land" this year that's for sure.
Give me a spell.
Elixuh
See you on the 9th green at 9
Saints should go after the Port guy and De Goey and have a crack and if it doesn't work out hit reset.
The Dogs have shown with their list we can make the Grand Final, and were a quarter away from winning a premiership. Young A-grade talent is also much better than most clubs. Certainly better than the Saints.
North appear further away right now because if their performances on the park. Bound to happen with a lack of experienced older players and poor coaching. This will likely be rectified as the team develops over the next few years with several top 5 picks.
Being a cellar dweller, especially as a Victorian club, is not sustainable. As much as you might want them to remain on the bottom, they'll likely become a contender in five years time. The Bulldogs, Lions, Demons, Fremantle, Carlton, West Coast have shown in the last 10 years that a rebuild is effective at shooting them up the ladder for a sustainable period of success.
St Kilda are in 'no mans land' because their list isn't good enough to seriously contend, and doesn't hold enough young talent to sustain itself near the top of the ladder and get them over the hunt. You're welcome to disagree, but in my eyes, this is saliently clear. Unless they are able to draft some A-grade talent after pick 10 or in the second round, they'll need some list turnover.
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Fmd lol, this is the dumbest paragraph on the main board
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This is just a blind assumption. Look how many top picks Gold Coast have had and where are they?
The Kings Ransom
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1 star in King, 2 very good player in Gresham and Marshall who are currently in their prime.
The rest are destined for average AFL players or totally unproven.
Most other developing teams have talent that kills this lot.
Suns
1. Rowell
2. King
3. Anderson
4. Rankine
5. Ainsworth
6. Ballard
7. Lukosius
8. Hollands
9. Powell
10. Andrew
11. Bowes
12. Davies
13. Jeffrey
Flanders, Budarick, Rosas, Moyle, Fiorini the next 5 to complete the on field 18.
Q
Um yeah you'd hope to have a decent crop of young players by now.
The Kings Ransom
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I just did the Suns, other posters have done Essendon and Bulldogs.
They're amongst a number of teams who have a far better young core than St Kilda. (kept at 13 players to match the original post)
Freo (Brayshaw, Serong, Darcy, Young, Brodie, Chapman, Clark, Cox, Erasmus, Frederick, Henry, Amiss, Logue)
Sydney (Mills, Warner, Mcdonald, Gulden, Blakey, Campbell, Mccartin, Florent, Rowbottom, Hayward, Roberts, Sheldrick, Stephens)
Lions (Mccluggage, Berry, Andrews, Hipwood, Bailey, Coleman, Rayner, Starcevich, Payne, Answerth, Lohmann, Wilmott, Ashcroft 2023)
Port (Butters, Rozee, Georgiades, Houston, Marshall, Burton, Bonner, Drew, Duursma, Jones, Sinn, SPP, Bergman)
IMO, that's 7 teams with clearly better young talented cores.
Giants, Richmond, Pies just as good if not better as well.
