Society/Culture The future of our society

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#77
There's money in the perceived increase in mental health issues. Pharmaceuticals is the third biggest industry behind arms and energy.

They outlawed cannibis as a medicine because there is no money in it. All three of those industry's control the capatalist media.

Ptsd post natal depression have always been in huge numbers. My father suffered Ptsd from his national service where his unit comitted war crimes to protect the one percent and their profits while denying a resource rich country, democracy.

Many peoples mental health issues today are a result of shit food culture and over worked coupled with Alcohol consumption (depressant) .

Suicide rates have risen as a result of the use of pych drugs.

Mental health issues in children are higher due to breakdown of the family unit and nutrition. This started in the 80s when cartoons were designed to get kids to nag their mother to buy shit. This is also when fast food full of neuro toxins started taking off.

Pharmaceuticals spend more money on marketing than research. More money in bribes and lawsuits than research.
Nutrition is far higher now than it was fifty years ago. Food Standards are far higher not to mention there are more healthy options and people are better informed. Fast foods had a brief moment in the sun but people have turned off them in the last two decades.
 

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#79
Evidently the carbon footprint of the transport and tourism industry is huge.

Only when the last river is poisoned
The last fish has been caught
Will you then realise you can't eat money.
Fish are bred. Regulations now prevent poisioning of water. You are making arguments from 30 years ago. The world, at least the western world, has largely fixed these problems with only some minor exceptions.
 

Deliverance

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Thread starter #82
Nutrition is far higher now than it was fifty years ago. Food Standards are far higher not to mention there are more healthy options and people are better informed. Fast foods had a brief moment in the sun but people have turned off them in the last two decades.
What alternate universe are you living in? Supermarkets are full of shitty processed food and the harms of toxins in our foods are becoming realised as well. Besides that, Aussies spend billions on junk food collectively.

https://www.everydayhealth.com/crohns-disease/diet/why-western-diet-making-us-sick/

Despite advances in medicine and healthcare an Australian child born today can expect to live less than someone born 60 years ago.

"In Australia, a boy born in 2014–2016 can expect to live to the age of 80.4 years and a girl would be expected to live to 84.6 years"

"Men aged 65 in 2014–2016 could expect to live another 19.6 years (an expected age at death of 84.6 years) and the life expectancy of women aged 65 in 2014–2016 was 22.3 years (an expected age at death of 87.3 years)."

https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/life-expectancy-death/deaths-in-australia/contents/life-expectancy
 

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#83
What alternate universe are you living in? Supermarkets are full of shitty processed food and the harms of toxins in our foods are becoming realised as well. Besides that, Aussies spend billions on junk food collectively.

https://www.everydayhealth.com/crohns-disease/diet/why-western-diet-making-us-sick/

Despite advances in medicine and healthcare an Australian child born today can expect to live less than someone born 60 years ago.

"In Australia, a boy born in 2014–2016 can expect to live to the age of 80.4 years and a girl would be expected to live to 84.6 years"

"Men aged 65 in 2014–2016 could expect to live another 19.6 years (an expected age at death of 84.6 years) and the life expectancy of women aged 65 in 2014–2016 was 22.3 years (an expected age at death of 87.3 years)."

https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/life-expectancy-death/deaths-in-australia/contents/life-expectancy
Go back to a supermarket 30 years ago. Just as much procesed food except the processed food had higher levels of fat and salt and sugar. There were no health sections and no low salt or low fat options either. People had western diets 30 years ago too. Just a worse type and with less variation.

Perhaps the only difference now is everyone is richer so are more able to buy more food. Intakes are higher but the quality of the food is better.
 

Deliverance

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Thread starter #84
Go back to a supermarket 30 years ago. Just as much procesed food except the processed food had higher levels of fat and salt and sugar. There were no health sections and no low salt or low fat options either. People had western diets 30 years ago too. Just a worse type and with less variation.

Perhaps the only difference now is everyone is richer so are more able to buy more food. Intakes are higher but the quality of the food is better.
Lower sugar kevels. You are joking right?
Low fat? Yep, but what is the fat replaced with? Yes, you guessed it. Sugar.
Food is worse overall today. Thats why life expectancy will decline for the first time in a long time.
https://www.everydayhealth.com/crohns-disease/diet/why-western-diet-making-us-sick/
 

jason pm

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#85
Go back to a supermarket 30 years ago. Just as much procesed food except the processed food had higher levels of fat and salt and sugar. There were no health sections and no low salt or low fat options either. People had western diets 30 years ago time. Just a worse type.

Perhaps the only difference now is everyone is richer so are more able to buy more food. Intakes are higher but the quality of the food is better.
I agree there are plenty of healthy options IF you have the motivation to seek them out, the problem is a lot of people are too apathetic and addicted to poor food choices to make the healthy decision. You only have to go out in public to see the poor condition a lot of people are in ie. obesity. Statistically we may be living longer but what sort of quality of life are we having in the later years? I've just turned 59 and I consider myself very healthy and active for my age, personally I'd rather live to 75 and feel like I do now than live to 90 struggling to breathe and get around.

Our worldwide increasingly westernized society is becoming more and more sedentary, slothful and pampered, we are not getting the exercise/movement we used to get just going about our everyday lives, a conscious effort is now needed to get up and do something active.

I still have hope though that there is a utopian type society possible in the future for the human race, not in my lifetime but hopefully my grandchildren's.
 

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#86
Despite advances in medicine and healthcare an Australian child born today can expect to live less than someone born 60 years ago.

"In Australia, a boy born in 2014–2016 can expect to live to the age of 80.4 years and a girl would be expected to live to 84.6 years"

"Men aged 65 in 2014–2016 could expect to live another 19.6 years (an expected age at death of 84.6 years) and the life expectancy of women aged 65 in 2014–2016 was 22.3 years (an expected age at death of 87.3 years)."

https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/life-expectancy-death/deaths-in-australia/contents/life-expectancy
You are getting confused. From your own source males born now can expect to live about 15 years longer than those born 30 years ago. That's massive.

The reason a 65 year old can expect to live longer than a newborn is because it excludes all child mortality.

 

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Deliverance

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Thread starter #87
You are getting confused. From your own source males born now can expect to live about 15 years longer than those born 30 years ago. That's massive.

The reason a 65 year old can expect to live longer than a newborn is because it excludes all child mortality.

Yeah, good pick up. But we're still staring down the barrell of decreasing life expectancy. Which is insane considering medical advances.

https://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/201...e-in-life-expectancy-due-to-obesi_a_21432398/

https://www.smh.com.au/national/lif...first-time-in-1000-years-20050318-gdkycc.html
 

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#88
Lower sugar kevels. You are joking right?
Low fat? Yep, but what is the fat replaced with? Yes, you guessed it. Sugar.
Food is worse overall today. Thats why life expectancy will decline for the first time in a long time.
https://www.everydayhealth.com/crohns-disease/diet/why-western-diet-making-us-sick/
There are a lot of people in my generation who complain they cant get the food they loved as kids because they have been replaced with low fat and low sugar alternatives.

You can buy sugar free chocolate these days. Low fat and low salt butter and margarine now exists. It didnt a couple of decades ago. All the new brands of chips have nearly half the salt ratio of the older brands. You get much greater variety in fruits and vegetables now compared to the past. The high sugar cereals make up a much smaller share of the cereal aisle. There are ingredients now banned from supermarkets that used to be on shelves because they are considered poisionous. Soft drinks were consumed in far far greater quantities in the past. Coca-cola nearly became as popular as water at one point.

Stop fantasizing the past.
 

Deliverance

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Thread starter #89
There are a lot of people in my generation who complain they cant get the food they loved as kids because they have been replaced with low fat and low sugar alternatives.

You can buy sugar free chocolate these days. Low fat and low salt butter and margarine now exists. It didnt a couple of decades ago. All the new brands of chips have nearly half the salt ratio of the older brands. You get much greater variety in fruits and vegetables now compared to the past. The high sugar cereals make up a much smaller share of the cereal aisle. There are ingredients now banned from supermarkets that used to be on shelves because they are considered poisionous. Soft drinks were consumed in far far greater quantities in the past. Coca-cola nearly became as popular as water at one point.

Stop fantasizing the past.
Think you're the only one fantasising here.

Supermarkets are loaded with processed foods.

https://www.georgeinstitute.org/med...f-highly-processed-and-highly-unhealthy-foods

And fruits and vegetables are less nutritious than ever.

https://www.everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/are-fruits-and-vegetables-less-nutritious-today.aspx

And while it's great Coke consumption is on the way down. Juice, sports and energy drinks are through the roof compared to 30/40 years ago.

It's pretty obvious food is worse than it used to be in general. It's delusional to believe otherwise.
 
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#90
Interesting subject.
We're in an age where a nation like Australia can actually make anything that a functioning society requires...we have most resources etc and the expertise or collective knowledge.
Economically, under our capitalist system, not so much...

If AI and automation takes away jobs from 50% of the population, what do we do with those people?

I've been thinking that maybe it will require a shift in the thinking on what it means to be a society? How does a government "for, of and by" the people represent those people who are left out.

It will take a massive re-imagining on how we function as it seems to me that allowing a huge proportion of the society to starve or be unhoused in perpetuity is not the best option
 

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#91
Think you're the only one fantasising here.

Supermarkets are loaded with processed foods.

https://www.georgeinstitute.org/med...f-highly-processed-and-highly-unhealthy-foods

And fruits and vegetables are less nutritious than ever.

https://www.everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/are-fruits-and-vegetables-less-nutritious-today.aspx

And while it's great Coke consumption is on the way down. Juice, sports and energy drinks are through the roof compared to 30/40 years ago.

It's pretty obvious food is worse than it used to be in general. It's delusional to believe otherwise.
Your first link references nothing about how things have changed. There was just as much process food 30 years ago. Maybe not 60 years ago. But not all processed foods are bad anyway. Eating some processed cheese or fruit is a hell of a lot better than eating fried bacon for breakfast as we often did in the fifties. Processed margarine is a hell of a lot healthier then the natural butter everyone used to eat. Processed turkey or chicken is far healthier and nutritious than rabbit or steak.

The second link sounds like awful science (notice how no evidence is quoted in the article, just theories and links to studies with no discussion of what evidence those studies find) with an awful agenda trying to discredit modern practises in agriculture which are greatly increasing food supplies and helping reduce the need to cut down forests. But lets assume its true and fruit amd vegetables have slightly less nutrients. It still doesnt change the fact fruit and vegetables are far more plentiful, have far more variety, and far cheaper (in real terms) then they have ever been. You get more nutrients from eating slightly nutritious fruit and vegetables then not eating them at all.
 

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#92
Interesting subject.
We're in an age where a nation like Australia can actually make anything that a functioning society requires...we have most resources etc and the expertise or collective knowledge.
Economically, under our capitalist system, not so much...

If AI and automation takes away jobs from 50% of the population, what do we do with those people?

I've been thinking that maybe it will require a shift in the thinking on what it means to be a society? How does a government "for, of and by" the people represent those people who are left out.

It will take a massive re-imagining on how we function as it seems to me that allowing a huge proportion of the society to starve or be unhoused in perpetuity is not the best option
That is not going to happen. People make their own work. Work is not something given to you. Its something you do to fulfill your needs.

The only time we have no work to do is when all our needs are met and we dont want to work anymore. It will be a choice we make.

300 years ago 95 percent of us worked in agriculure. Now only about 1-5 percent of us do because of new technology. Do we have 80 percent unemployment?
 
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#93
That is not going to happen. People make their own work. Work is not something given to you. Its something you do to fulfill your needs.

The only time we have no work to do is when all our needs are met and we dont want to work anymore. It will be a choice we make.

300 years ago 95 percent of us worked in agriculure. Now only about 1-5 percent of us do because of new technology. Do we have 80 percent unemployment?
Perhaps...but I see the rate of change exceeding the capacity of the society to replace the jobs...if that happens what then?
 

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#94
Interesting subject.
We're in an age where a nation like Australia can actually make anything that a functioning society requires...we have most resources etc and the expertise or collective knowledge.
Economically, under our capitalist system, not so much...

If AI and automation takes away jobs from 50% of the population, what do we do with those people?

I've been thinking that maybe it will require a shift in the thinking on what it means to be a society? How does a government "for, of and by" the people represent those people who are left out.

It will take a massive re-imagining on how we function as it seems to me that allowing a huge proportion of the society to starve or be unhoused in perpetuity is not the best option
A few manufactured wars will cull much of the now excess population.
 

Deliverance

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Thread starter #95
Your first link references nothing about how things have changed. There was just as much process food 30 years ago. Maybe not 60 years ago. But not all processed foods are bad anyway. Eating some processed cheese or fruit is a hell of a lot better than eating fried bacon for breakfast as we often did in the fifties. Processed margarine is a hell of a lot healthier then the natural butter everyone used to eat. Processed turkey or chicken is far healthier and nutritious than rabbit or steak.

The second link sounds like awful science (notice how no evidence is quoted in the article, just theories and links to studies with no discussion of what evidence those studies find) with an awful agenda trying to discredit modern practises in agriculture which are greatly increasing food supplies and helping reduce the need to cut down forests. But lets assume its true and fruit amd vegetables have slightly less nutrients. It still doesnt change the fact fruit and vegetables are far more plentiful, have far more variety, and far cheaper (in real terms) then they have ever been. You get more nutrients from eating slightly nutritious fruit and vegetables then not eating them at all.
Well I like your opinions. I really do. But I think I'll stick with the research. You know from people with PHDs in the articles and links. Read the Hort Science article referenced there also. Did you read the article? It's not flimsy science, it just doesn't sit with your opinions. I'd love to see some evidence to the contrary if it exists.
 
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Deliverance

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Thread starter #96
If AI and automation takes away jobs from 50% of the population, what do we do with those people?

I've been thinking that maybe it will require a shift in the thinking on what it means to be a society? How does a government "for, of and by" the people represent those people who are left out.
Yes, you're right here. This could take a massive shift in thinking and functioning as society. There's easily enough wealth in the world, but just will probably need a redistribution. It's not just the poor that will get left behind in my opinion. The next 50 years could be a game changer for everyone. Probably the biggest change in our circumstances since the industrial revolution
 

Gethelred

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#97
Think you're the only one fantasising here.

Supermarkets are loaded with processed foods.

https://www.georgeinstitute.org/med...f-highly-processed-and-highly-unhealthy-foods

And fruits and vegetables are less nutritious than ever.

https://www.everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/are-fruits-and-vegetables-less-nutritious-today.aspx

And while it's great Coke consumption is on the way down. Juice, sports and energy drinks are through the roof compared to 30/40 years ago.

It's pretty obvious food is worse than it used to be in general. It's delusional to believe otherwise.
You're arguing different things.

He's arguing A: that the supermarket 30 years ago was worse dietarily than it is today, which is quantifiably true. You're arguing B: that the supermarket today is still in need of improvement.
 

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#98
Interesting subject.
We're in an age where a nation like Australia can actually make anything that a functioning society requires...we have most resources etc and the expertise or collective knowledge.
Economically, under our capitalist system, not so much...

If AI and automation takes away jobs from 50% of the population, what do we do with those people?

I've been thinking that maybe it will require a shift in the thinking on what it means to be a society? How does a government "for, of and by" the people represent those people who are left out.

It will take a massive re-imagining on how we function as it seems to me that allowing a huge proportion of the society to starve or be unhoused in perpetuity is not the best option
If we go the way of the technology assisted utopian society and not the Skynet T2 Judgement Day scenario I can envision a leisure/pleasure based societal system.
 

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#99
Perhaps...but I see the rate of change exceeding the capacity of the society to replace the jobs...if that happens what then?
That is a temporary issue only. Some fifty year old may refuse to retrain and effectively retire earlier. Everyone else will retrain or move immediately into less skilled jobs. However, the robots will also greatly reduce costs of goods and services which means we wont need to do as much work or earn as high a wage to have the same standard of livings pre robots. Most of us will be better off and a lot better off too. For the small percentage that could be left behind the government could easily boost wealth distribution by increasing taxes on the profits that accrue from the robots.

Those who think robots are economically bad for society are no different to the luddites from the industrial revolution. The only difference this time is that the robots dont have any major negative externalities as they dont pollute the skies.
 

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If we go the way of the technology assisted utopian society and not the Skynet T2 Judgement Day scenario I can envision a leisure/pleasure based societal system.
Nope.

People don't trust other people enough for that, and it's almost invariably the same people that don't trust others to not take advantage of their laxity that will try to take advantage of other people. No leisure/pleasure based society would last, because there's no friction or compliance mechanism trapping these people into lives of service. Some people need their gilded cage.

While society continues to evolve and to change and our technology continues to improve, we're still gossiping peasants talking in a town square.
 
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