The Lesser Key of Hinkley (aka the 2018 Statistical Data Thread)

[GremioPower]

While the pressure was great all day I feel I should point out that more than one player can be pressuring the same ball carrier at the same time - hence it doesn’t strictly mean that 80% of their disposals were under pressure

Can the same pressure act count for more than one disposal?

 

[Janus]

While the pressure was great all day I feel I should point out that more than one player can be pressuring the same ball carrier at the same time - hence it doesn’t strictly mean that 80% of their disposals were under pressure

They took 95 marks, so let's say they didn't play on from any of those, or they were in open space and couldn't be pressured.

That means only 263 disposals could be classified as being under pressure.

It was probably more like 75%.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Ok we need some definitions from Champion Data. The Hoff 20 pressure acts according to the AFL app but in the paper Champion Data stats table say he scored 59 Pressure Points. They define this at the bottom of the table as Impact of pressure acts.

How do you score 1, 2 , 3 or more pressure points from an individual pressure act?

DBJ 22 pressure acts for 52 pressure points.

 

[Amarula]

Just remember - a side consisting of Cameron O’Shea, Sam Colquhoun, Andrew Moore, Matthew Lobbe and Aaron Young played finals in 2013.

It’s not about talent. It’s about heart. And Melbourne as a club don’t value that because they foster an environment where players are bullied instead of encouraged.

That’s why I will never, ever rate them.

I don't think Melbourne lack heart - in terms of effort. They just think that itv they're down, they just have to try harder and can't work out why that doesn't work.
They're a stupid team with a stupid coach. Today, for example, they can't figure out why bombing it to the square isn't working for them (because Geelong has great spare defenders in Blicavs & Tuohy ... der!!!), so they just keep trying harder to bomb it to the square.

 

[Janus]

I don't think Melbourne lack heart - in terms of effort. They just think that itv they're down, they just have to try harder and can't work out why that doesn't work.
They're a stupid team with a stupid coach. Today, for example, they can't figure out why bombing it to the square isn't working for them (because Geelong has great spare defenders in Blicavs & Tuohy ... der!!!), so they just keep trying harder to bomb it to the square.

Heart is more belief rather than effort. Belief in yourself and your teammates. That's why they bomb it to the square - they don't believe in themselves to deliver a kick inside 50, or in their teammates to mark it, when the 50 is congested.

And that comes from Goodwin telling them that they are s**t at delivering the ball inside 50 so bomb the ball into the square. The funny part of it is, they traded away the one player who actually was good at delivering the ball inside 50...for pick 31.

 

[Macca19]

Ok we need some definitions from Champion Data. The Hoff 20 pressure acts according to the AFL app but in the paper Champion Data stats table say he scored 59 Pressure Points. They define this at the bottom of the table as Impact of pressure acts.

How do you score 1, 2 , 3 or more pressure points from an individual pressure act?

DBJ 22 pressure acts for 52 pressure points.

"PRESSURE POINTS. Weighted sum of pressure acts. Under the Champion Data pressure point scoring system physical pressure acts are worth 3.75 points, closing pressure acts are worth 2.25 points, chasing pressure acts are worth 1.50 points, and corralling pressure acts which are worth 1.20 points."

 

[Amarula]

Ok we need some definitions from Champion Data. The Hoff 20 pressure acts according to the AFL app but in the paper Champion Data stats table say he scored 59 Pressure Points. They define this at the bottom of the table as Impact of pressure acts.

How do you score 1, 2 , 3 or more pressure points from an individual pressure act?

DBJ 22 pressure acts for 52 pressure points.

If I remember right, it goes something like this. If your pressure act causes a turnover, you get 3 points, if it doesn't stop the player finding a teammate you get one point. Therefore 22 pressure acts for 52 points is excellent. 20 pressure acts for 59 points is even better.
So it's a measure (not a perfect measure, but a measure nonetheless) of how effective your pressure acts were.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

If I remember right, it goes something like this. If your pressure act causes a turnover, you get 3 points, if it doesn't stop the player finding a teammate you get one point. Therefore 22 pressure acts for 52 points is excellent. 20 pressure acts for 59 points is even better.
So it's a measure (not a perfect measure, but a measure nonetheless) of how effective your pressure acts were.

Looks like you didnt remember right. See Macca's post above yours.

 

[Amarula]

Heart is more belief rather than effort. Belief in yourself and your teammates. That's why they bomb it to the square - they don't believe in themselves to deliver a kick inside 50, or in their teammates to mark it, when the 50 is congested.

And that comes from Goodwin telling them that they are s**t at delivering the ball inside 50 so bomb the ball into the square. The funny part of it is, they traded away the one player who actually was good at delivering the ball inside 50...for pick 31.

Yeah, perhaps. I think it's more that Goodwin and Viney want players who play as they played.

I see "strategy" as the plans you make for how to best use your strengths to win, how to cover your weaknesses, and how to counter your opponent's strengths and exploit their weaknesses. And "tactics" are the adjustments you make during the game (or battle) when you find that your strategy isn't working out, or your opponents have succeeded in blunting your strengths and exploiting your weaknesses.

Melbourne's strategy seems be just "win-contested-ball" + "bomb-it-deep-into-f50" + "forward pressure", and they don't seem to make any tactical adjustments when these strategies are nullified or don't work - they seem to think that all they need to do is just try harder ... and harder and harder. And this is why, despite an immensely talented list and the best strategist in the business, they're not getting the most out of them. Today they smashed i50s and tackles, and just won contested ball against the best in the business, so it could be argued that their strategy worked well, but they still lost.

The players' belief falters because they never get maximum return for their huge effort, because their strategy and tactics are so poor.

From what I've seen so far this season, our strategy is far more complex and difficult to counter, and we're capable of making tactical adjustments during games. Our uncontested chains were much more damaging, and we didn't have players getting sucked into the contest, and when Freo were getting the ball out the back of stoppages, we countered it. If we can continue to execute under the best pressure teams, we'll be difficult to stop. I guess we'll find out soon enough next week.

I'm probably just trying to convince myself why the likes of Jack Watts & Dom Barry will be far more effective with us than with their former team. And that we're more likely to get the best out of our immensely talented list than the Dees are out of theirs.

 

[Amarula]

Looks like you didnt remember right. See Macca's post above yours.

Must be thinking about something else. I'm sure there's some sort of a measure of pressure acts that lead to turnovers.

 

[Janus]

I'm probably just trying to convince myself why the likes of Jack Watts & Dom Barry will be far more effective with us than with their former team. And that we're more likely to get the best out of our immensely talented list than the Dees are out of theirs.

They'll be better because they are used to their strengths. Our system doesn't rely on one attacking system. It's a combination of various styles - as Ken said once, we are in pursuit of football mastery. Once you understand what style counters other styles, you don't really have to be exceptionally skilled, just a standard AFL player, because fluid tactics expose rigid strategy if you know what you are doing.

 

[Janus]

Richardson on AFL 360

“A possession game requires more running - we had 135 marks in our game.”

Chris Scott agreed with him, so I thought I’d take a look at the numbers.

St Kilda - 422 disposals, 135 marks, 279.9 kms run

Port Adelaide - 439 disposals, 112 marks, 274 kms run

But where it gets interesting is this:

St Kilda - 40.7 km high speed running (301m per mark, 96m per disposal), 7.6 km/h average speed in attack

Port Adelaide - 37.6 km high speed running (335m per mark, 85m per disposal), 7.4 km/h average speed in attack

Both sides averaged the same speed on defence (8.1 km/h) so it’s got nothing to do with that side of it.

In comparison, Sydney had 393 disposals, 82 marks, 292.9 km run...with 36.6 km
at high speed. They also averaged 8.1 km/h in defence. 446m per mark, 93m per disposal.

In other words, our gameplan - the one that has been built upon for five years - requires less high speed running than two AFL coaches expect. And that’s because it’s a hybrid style, combining possession football and explosive targeted running. Not “weaving for weaving’s sake.”

The legs feed the wolf.

 

[OneGreatClub]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...r/news-story/9f98ce856e37d916fc83c541c8917726
Port Adelaide keen to end the ‘ping pong’ that has turned the speed advantage against the Power


FREMANTLE coach Ross Lyon reckons Port Adelaide has found new, damaging speed this AFL season.

The funny thing is Power coach Ken Hinkley knows from brutal experience how that line-cutting speed can be a double-edged sword.

In the summer, as Hinkley consulted masters of other sports, he was told there is one danger with playing a fast game to load up his new-look attack: “It can come out as quick as it goes in.”And Port Adelaide’s young defence cannot afford to face such afterburn on such a fast track as Adelaide Oval ... or anywhere else on the AFL circuit.Hinkley’s players have learned when to go slow rather than fast. They know there is an strength to be created in not using their pace.

Power defender Hamish Hartlett, who plays his 150th AFL game this weekend, calls it “controlled ball movement”. He admits the “ping pong” football that came with quick attack and fast opposition rebound could not continue if Port Adelaide was to succeed in its chase of a top-four ranking.“Knowing when and when not comes with the maturity of the group. We’ve been working on that for the last year and a half.”

 

[Janus]

GWS - played Western Bulldogs (18th - For 121, Against 254) and Collingwood (16th - For 146, Against 196)

Port - played Fremantle (14th - For 166, Against 200) and Sydney (9th - For 186, Against 180)

GWS - For 228, Against 130

Port - For 204, Against 131

That actually makes me laugh.

Keep the seat warm *ers, we're coming for top spot next week.

 

[Doctor Feel]

Ken completely busted his own myth last night. He once claimed after a defeat that making positional and player role changes during games makes little difference. He was obviously disheartened at the time and may have been talking in the context of that game - didn't sound like it though.

Eat your heart out big fella. You need to believe in yourself more. Moving Dixon to ruck turned the game on its head.

 

[Janus]

Ken completely busted his own myth last night. He once claimed after a defeat that making positional and player role changes during games makes little difference. He was obviously disheartened at the time and may have been talking in the context of that game - didn't sound like it though.

Eat your heart out big fella. You need to believe in yourself more. Moving Dixon to ruck turned the game on its head.

Hinkley NEVER said that positional changes don't work during a game. He said that in that if you're not going to bring effort and method to the contest, no changes the coaches make will work.

 

[Janus]

You know what time it is? For my favourite stat - Pressure Acts!

Wines - 33
Barry - 31
Ebert - 28
R. Gray - 27
Rockliff - 24
Powell-Pepper - 23
Westhoff - 22
Boak - 21
Dixon - 19
Wingard - 19
Polec - 18
Houston - 16
Watts- 15
Motlop - 15
S. Gray - 15
Byrne-Jones - 14
Hartlett - 12
Clurey - 11
Marshall - 9
Jonas - 8
Bonner - 6
Howard - 6

377 pressure acts, +90 from last week. 298 Sydney disposals were able to have pressure applied (i.e they weren't from a free kick or a mark).

 

[Coobk001]

Squiggle has taken a major adjustment after this weekend's win.

https://live.squiggle.com.au/#tower

 

[ClintEastwood]

Ken completely busted his own myth last night. He once claimed after a defeat that making positional and player role changes during games makes little difference. He was obviously disheartened at the time and may have been talking in the context of that game - didn't sound like it though.

Eat your heart out big fella. You need to believe in yourself more. Moving Dixon to ruck turned the game on its head.

Yeah, been thinking about what goes on in the box myself also. It's been a great pleasure to see Kenny and others talking in an animated way when they cross to the box, instead of a silent Ken slamming down diet cokes. Telling that Brendan Lade is sitting right next to him? Perhaps Ladey is having a real impact in the box.

 

[ClintEastwood]

Hinkley NEVER said that positional changes don't work during a game. He said that in that if you're not going to bring effort and method to the contest, no changes the coaches make will work.

Unless you can go and find EVERY word he has said, that's pretty hard to prove or disprove either way, isn't it. But I've a feeling he DID say it at one stage. Which would be borne out by the amount of sitting silently, motionless except for the sipping of diet cokes, last season.

 

[Janus]

Unless you can go and find EVERY word he has said, that's pretty hard to prove or disprove either way, isn't it. But I've a feeling he DID say it at one stage. Which would be borne out by the amount of sitting silently, motionless except for the sipping of diet cokes, last season.

He never did publicly, how’s that? I know because I remember the stupid carry on about it, and I quoted his exact words verbatim from the press conference it was from. He spoke about how you can start chasing your tail a little bit trying to plug gaps over the field if the midfield isn’t putting in a defensive effort and you end up destroying your system, so it’s almost better to keep the system in place and use it as a learning experience.

The only reason anyone wants to believe it is because they want to justify their position of sacking Ken last year by saying that he’s obviously changed his tune. Well he hasn’t, because his tune has always been about defensive method and effort and at the contest.

 

[Tibbs]

You know what time it is? For my favourite stat - Pressure Acts!

Wines - 33
Barry - 31
Ebert - 28
R. Gray - 27
Rockliff - 24
Powell-Pepper - 23
Westhoff - 22
Boak - 21
Dixon - 19
Wingard - 19
Polec - 18
Houston - 16
Watts- 15
Motlop - 15
S. Gray - 15
Byrne-Jones - 14
Hartlett - 12
Clurey - 11
Marshall - 9
Jonas - 8
Bonner - 6
Howard - 6

377 pressure acts, +90 from last week. 298 Sydney disposals were able to have pressure applied (i.e they weren't from a free kick or a mark).

Wines - 33
Barry - 31
Ebert - 28
R. Gray - 27
Rockliff - 24

Both these two being considered as disappointing & SANFL bound by some, yet in the top-5 in your chart.

They aint going anywhere!

 

[Jonts]

Wines - 33
Barry - 31
Ebert - 28
R. Gray - 27
Rockliff - 24

Both these two being considered as disappointing & SANFL bound by some, yet in the top-5 in your chart.

They aint going anywhere!

what's Rockliff's pressure acts from week 1

 

[Peck]

Hinkley NEVER said that positional changes don't work during a game. He said that in that if you're not going to bring effort and method to the contest, no changes the coaches make will work.

He also said sometimes you end up going in circles.

SOMETIMES

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Wines - 33
Barry - 31
Ebert - 28
R. Gray - 27
Rockliff - 24

Both these two being considered as disappointing & SANFL bound by some, yet in the top-5 in your chart.

They aint going anywhere!

I thought Barry made some poor decisions in the 2nd and 3rd quarter and was frustrated by what the end result of his disposals were and he only went at 60% efficiency. He had 15 disposals and given 6 were kicks and 9 were handballs, it probably meant only 1 kick hit his target. I was pleasantly surprised by his pressure acts which produced 71 Pressure Points only behind Westhoff's 77 and Luke Parkers 78. Obviously he used his speed to harass and tackle his opponents. Dont think he will be dropped.