List Mgmt. Time to demand Reid and Co. to be sacked.

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Moderator
Jun 21, 2004
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They’re referencing the trade we made with Essendon to bring Jenkins to the Crows; which was great value.
That makes more sense.

The issue for me is that we're apparently a F from 2010-2019, yet every other club aside from Freo in the AFL is a C at the lowest.

Another interesting point is there's only 1 Victorian club that gets a C+ (Melbourne) while every other Vic team is a B or above.

I don't think it's particularly objective, to me it screams "the Crows are currently 0-12 so I have to give them a F".

There's been a couple of bad trades, but across the board I don't think we'd be lower than a C at the worst.

Tom Lynch, Sam Jacobs and Jenkins were all steals
The Stocker pick trade was a massive win
Lever was a win

Also part of the reason why Carlton are apparently a B- was getting Jack Martin via the PSD, that not even trade related.

The whole article is sheer nonsene in my opinion
 

Thetrader15

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 16, 2015
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The irony that they forgot to mention securing Eddie Betts via FA...maybe they missed him in the promo.

Funny that Brisbane got an A as well...again, no mention of losing Polec for nothing, pick 2 Schache for nothing, and Charlie Cameron for pick 12 is a major win for Brisbane? I stopped reading this garbage which clearly was just what they remembered off the top of their head without doing any research.
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Vhaluus

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2016
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i'd actually agree with that. Dogs got a premiership out of it while GWS extracted value far in excess of what Boyd was worth other than one stand out grand final.

Now are the dogs lucky that Boyd played the game of his life in the grand final because otherwise they would have made a horrible trade? yep.. but that's a results driven industry for you.
 

dylan123

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 3, 2008
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There are 20 bigger issues at the club than how Reid and Ogilvey are performing. It's not their fault we are where we are.

It's the last 2 years (in particular 2019) where we wasted time thinking if we made the finals anything would happen.

It's the pathetic investment in coaching. Matt Rowell would hardly be able to get a kick in our midfield.

It's that Nicks and Kelly have to spend half their time answering questions about BS from our board members.

It's Nicks not having more than about 2 hours a week to coach the whole squad.

It's fitness levels.

The fact one of our forward coach can't count to 10.
While I agree with all of that, it still doesn't sit well with me that we were unable to identify a way to improve our list via trade in the most recent off-season. Frampton was a nothing trade (no issues with it, I mean no cost) and Keays was in the rookie draft so I wouldn't count him. Basically suggested that they were either happy with the shape of our list or unable to get anything done. Whatever the reason, that's a pretty big failure on Reid's behalf and this season shows how far away our list is.
 

Thetrader15

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While I agree with all of that, it still doesn't sit well with me that we were unable to identify a way to improve our list via trade in the most recent off-season. Frampton was a nothing trade (no issues with it, I mean no cost) and Keays was in the rookie draft so I wouldn't count him. Basically suggested that they were either happy with the shape of our list or unable to get anything done. Whatever the reason, that's a pretty big failure on Reid's behalf and this season shows how far away our list is.
Agree we needed to get some decent players to the club, but let's be honest, who in their right mind would have come here? We didn't even know who the coach was until a couple of days before the daft
 

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dylan123

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Agree we needed to get some decent players to the club, but let's be honest, who in their right mind would have come here? We didn't even know who the coach was until a couple of days before the daft
Yeah that's where it certainly becomes tougher when you can't even chat to the coach to make sure you're someone they want. I think at the end of the day we're going to have to pay overs for a few younger guys, whether they're in their respective side's best 22 or not. Put the right figure in front of someone and they'll seriously consider the offer regardless of how unattractive we might be as a destination. I can only guess that this has been one of our downfalls in recent years.
 

Vhaluus

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May 13, 2016
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Yeah that's where it certainly becomes tougher when you can't even chat to the coach to make sure you're someone they want. I think at the end of the day we're going to have to pay overs for a few younger guys, whether they're in their respective side's best 22 or not. Put the right figure in front of someone and they'll seriously consider the offer regardless of how unattractive we might be as a destination. I can only guess that this has been one of our downfalls in recent years.
So overpay for non best 22 players?

Worked so well in recent years with Hampton and Menzel didn't it.

This is the opposite of what we should be doing. It's just BS marketing to go 'look we can attract players' at the cost of things that will get us long term success: draft picks and salary cap.
 

douglyzia

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Sep 24, 2006
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How much of our diabolical (sub F-) list management can be excused by the club falsely believing we were still in the premiership window after 2017/2018?

I mean, is that a good excuse? Isn't it your job as list manager (or the list management team) to recognize when players are past (or going to be past) their prime?
 

dylan123

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 3, 2008
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So overpay for non best 22 players?

Worked so well in recent years with Hampton and Menzel didn't it.

This is the opposite of what we should be doing. It's just BS marketing to go 'look we can attract players' at the cost of things that will get us long term success: draft picks and salary cap.
Yeah because draft picks have worked so well for teams like GC, Melbourne and Carlton.
 

Vhaluus

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Yeah because draft picks have worked so well for teams like GC, Melbourne and Carlton.
On the other hand they're working out pretty damn well for Brisbane aren't they?

Now do we want to compare ourselves to the good clubs who can make the most of their advantages? or to the poor clubs that screw up everything they touch?

I understand currently we're in the latter group but I think we should be aspiring to be and making decisions to put ourselves in the first group.
 

dylan123

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 3, 2008
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Was he a non best 22 player?
It's half my argument you've decided to take. Cameron and Neale are two young guys they've had to fully pay for and no one would be questioning

Looking at a team like Brisbane, guys like Lyons, Martin and Robinson all fit into that boat in my eyes. Lyons played a lot of games for GC but they didn't treat him like a best 22 player. The later two are past their best but have played some very good football for Brisbane.

Jenkins and Lynch are examples of non best 22 players that we've managed to get who have played some very good football for us. Kennedy who Sydney got from Hawthorn who was stuck behind a strong midfield, Mitchell similar the other way where he would have played a lot more football in his first couple of seasons if he wasn't at Sydney. Eventually broke through but went from being the 2/3/4 rated midfielder at Sydney to the main guy at at Hawthorn.
 

conVINCEd

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Oct 15, 2003
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for pick 6 + 10 at present.

What a steal. Well played Reidy

Oh wait, was it a bad deal?
I’m stressing until season’s end about where that Giants pick ends up. Depends how good that player + McAsey end up compared to Ash and Stephens, given we could’ve drafted either (I assume it would’ve been Stephens given his SA connections and being a midfielder).
 

Sack Chapman

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There are 20 bigger issues at the club than how Reid and Ogilvey are performing. It's not their fault we are where we are.

It's the last 2 years (in particular 2019) where we wasted time thinking if we made the finals anything would happen.

It's the pathetic investment in coaching. Matt Rowell would hardly be able to get a kick in our midfield.

It's that Nicks and Kelly have to spend half their time answering questions about BS from our board members.

It's Nicks not having more than about 2 hours a week to coach the whole squad.

It's fitness levels.

The fact one of our forward coach can't count to 10.
Really?? What are those 20 bigger issues than lack of genuine talent. As much as anyone, Reid and Hamish should be held accountable for the current state of our list, one of the worst this competition has ever seen. If a rival group staged a coup they would be in my list of MUST get rids of along with Chapman, Roo, Fagan, Smart and all of our assistant coaches.
 

Thetrader15

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 16, 2015
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Really?? What are those 20 bigger issues than lack of genuine talent. As much as anyone, Reid and Hamish should be held accountable for the current state of our list, one of the worst this competition has ever seen. If a rival group staged a coup they would be in my list of MUST get rids of along with Chapman, Roo, Fagan, Smart and all of our assistant coaches.
Hey, I agree with your last statement.
 

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