Universal Love Welcome to Hawthorn - Connor Downie - #35 2020 National Draft

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PenAndPaperJosh

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Oct 17, 2011
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I'm going to go against popular opinion and say I like the benefits of the sub rule and think they outweigh the fact coaches will use it as tactical decision. I liked that when Freo had an injury early today and then they could bring a player on. I always felt an unfair handicap when players lose players early, has happened to us a lot these last few seasons. I think being able to bring in a player when that happens is something the game is missing compared to other sports. Why should the other team benefit due to luck with injury so much? For the hardest game in the world where the fittest often win, I don't think it's a bad thing.

Yeah coaches will take advantage of it, like Tigers Friday night, but all sides can take advantage of it.

I also think it really suits us as we have players like Hanrahan, Downie, and possibly in the future young Seamus Mitchell who might really benefit from it as well. I like they young players can get a taste, like we did with Bradley Hill early in his career, without throwing them in for 4 quarters as well.

I understand the is downside, but I do think there is a bit of upside people are missing due to the fact the AFL are usually ridiculous with their rule changes, and that this one was brought in weirdly late.

I am still confused about the rule though. Like Eldorado I thought it was automatic week or so without playing, but I've heard that this might not be the case, so the confusion and lateness is the big part I have a problem with.
Where does it end though? A team could have two serious injuries in a game and even with the sub rule they are still handicapped.

I think its something that the AFL has brought in to cover their own rule of the 12 days mandatory out for a concussion.
 

Brishawk

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Where does it end though? A team could have two serious injuries in a game and even with the sub rule they are still handicapped.

I think its something that the AFL has brought in to cover their own rule of the 12 days mandatory out for a concussion.
It is tactical. I doubt it will be the same in 2022. As frustrating as it is, we probably just need to accept it for now and hope they resolve the issues in the off season.
 

OnTheRocks

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Where does it end though? A team could have two serious injuries in a game and even with the sub rule they are still handicapped.

I think its something that the AFL has brought in to cover their own rule of the 12 days mandatory out for a concussion.
Perhaps it should only be used for concussion?
 

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PenAndPaperJosh

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Perhaps it should only be used for concussion?
I would be fine with that or even just having that no matter what the injury is, if the player gets subbed they have to be out for 12 days. This would restrict the teams from blatantly abusing the rule with the consequence of having a player miss a match or two.

Only thing I could see happening with that is teams planning to rest a player, so they just sub them off with a quarter to go because they weren't going to play the next week.
 

Judd2Sewell

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Would have been better served playing for Box Hill. If they pick him to "debut" all over again next week will they bring out a new video?
 

Strapping Young Lad

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Would have been better served playing for Box Hill. If they pick him to "debut" all over again next week will they bring out a new video?
Its not about Connor though, it's about the team, and if he'd have played for Box Hill and there was an injury last night people would've been declaring that Downie should have been the sub so that he got a taste. He was clearly the prefered runner to have in reserve.

His first game is is his first game. People need to get their head around the new system, because he won't be the last to debut and not actually take the field.
The match committee now need to work out if he starts on the ground next week, or rolls back to Box Hill for a week.
 

HairyO

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Even though he didnt play it was nice of the players to have him in the middle during the song.

I like that neither us or the Dons faked injuries to sub out tired players. The new rule is just open to abuse.
 

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PenAndPaperJosh

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Its not about Connor though, it's about the team, and if he'd have played for Box Hill and there was an injury last night people would've been declaring that Downie should have been the sub so that he got a taste. He was clearly the prefered runner to have in reserve.

His first game is is his first game. People need to get their head around the new system, because he won't be the last to debut and not actually take the field.
The match committee now need to work out if he starts on the ground next week, or rolls back to Box Hill for a week.
Come on now, it's a horrible system.
You can't class someone as debuting if they don't see one second of game time. Sure, if he comes on for 1 minute class it as such but to not get out there at all, that should not class as a game played.
 

RedmanWasHere

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His first game is is his first game. People need to get their head around the new system, because he won't be the last to debut and not actually take the field.
The match committee now need to work out if he starts on the ground next week, or rolls back to Box Hill for a week.

You sound like an AFL apologist.

Tom Cutler didn't even get subbed in in last nights game either and I thought it was a waste of both Cutler and Downie being there.

Even the Brisbane-Sydney and Footscray-Collingwood games didn't have activated subs.

It's a sh*t rule.

In an ideal world, Cutler and Downie aren't subs and are just part of a bench which needs to increase to 6 players.
 

Strapping Young Lad

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Come on now, it's a horrible system.
You can't class someone as debuting if they don't see one second of game time. Sure, if he comes on for 1 minute class it as such but to not get out there at all, that should not class as a game played.
You sound like an AFL apologist.

Tom Cutler didn't even get subbed in in last nights game either and I thought it was a waste of both Cutler and Downie being there.

Even the Brisbane-Sydney and Footscray-Collingwood games didn't have activated subs.

It's a sh*t rule.

In an ideal world, Cutler and Downie aren't subs and are just part of a bench which needs to increase to 6 players.
People need to get their head around the new system. It aint changing.
 

PenAndPaperJosh

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People need to get their head around the new system. It aint changing.
Just because something is going to stick around, It doesn't make it free of receiving criticism for its stupidity.

It has also made the Hawthorn decision to have Downie call his mum to say he's playing look ridiculous.
 

Strapping Young Lad

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Just because something is going to stick around, It doesn't make it free of receiving criticism for its stupidity.

It has also made the Hawthorn decision to have Downie call his mum to say he's playing look ridiculous.
No, its just a brave new world where this is what could happen when a player debuts as a medical sub. So we either come to terms with it or melt about it for the next 5 years.

If Hanrahan stays down early in the game and Downie comes on theres no melting.

edit: Also, they don't make him the sub without talking to him and telling him there's a bigger plan at play, and also understanding that he's strong enough mentally to watch on, if that eventuates - and it did.
 

PenAndPaperJosh

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No, its just a brave new world where this is what could happen when a player debuts as a medical sub. So we either come to terms with it or melt about it for the next 5 years.

If Hanrahan stays down early in the game and Downie comes on theres no melting.
Or simply solve the whole issue and only count it as a game played if they come on.
 

LMGjr

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Come on now, it's a horrible system.
You can't class someone as debuting if they don't see one second of game time. Sure, if he comes on for 1 minute class it as such but to not get out there at all, that should not class as a game played.
Of course it's a horrible system, after all it is the afl commission, they just don't do good systems.

But as Strapping Young Lad said it is what it is - Clarko being Clarko will wait till there is a injury and if no injury he'll continue to study the best way to use it by observing what other teams do and why. Always better to be on the edge of the coin so you can jump heads or tails when needed.

Either that or I'm still half tanked after letting the whole neighborhood know that the Hawks won last night.
 

Judd2Sewell

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Its not about Connor though, it's about the team, and if he'd have played for Box Hill and there was an injury last night people would've been declaring that Downie should have been the sub so that he got a taste. He was clearly the prefered runner to have in reserve.

His first game is is his first game. People need to get their head around the new system, because he won't be the last to debut and not actually take the field.
The match committee now need to work out if he starts on the ground next week, or rolls back to Box Hill for a week.
I understand it's about the team. Doesn't mean that Downie wouldn't have been better served actually playing than have that whole faux debut celebration.

They surely won't pick him again next week to be the sub.
 

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