Banter Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood?

[Wosh]

Mainly here so we can enjoy the LOLs afterwards at the end of 2023, but also an interesting discussion point.

I’m in genuine two minds and can’t call it, but who do you see finishing higher in 2023?

Who is positioned better from a list/team perspective?

Let the games begin…

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[beerbandit]

Collingwood in the race for McCluggage. Wonder what they will offer him?

Just saw on Twitter (so it must be true) that it's $950k over 8 years!!

Good to see the Pies completely abandon the draft. Seen this movie before from my own club and it doesn't work out well. What Father Sons do they have coming through to save them this time around?

Haven't drafted anyone of note since Quaynor really, and the VFL is losing most weeks - I think it’s a bad move to buy their way out of trouble tbh.

Are we in trouble ?

What makes you think Collingwood are in trouble?

 

[South of the Yarra]

How many premiership Players are Carlton missing this week?

 

[Worm4]

How many premiership Players are Carlton missing this week?

Same as Essendon, yet you couldn't beat that mob so go figure

 

[beerbandit]

How many premiership Players are Carlton missing this week?

You could just rephrase SOTY to ‘How many premiership players do Carlton have?’

 

[beerbandit]

Same as Essendon, yet you couldn't beat that mob so go figure

 

[Worm4]

Are we in trouble ?

What makes you think Collingwood are in trouble?

Pies are going to lose up to 8 quality premiership players ( apparently premiership players are hard to replace ) , so getting 8 top notch replacements will be extremely difficult to do. Go through the draft for some short term pain and start peaking for when Tassie come in, or try and top up but at some point that bubble will burst as well. Look at Richmond - thought they could bring in young talent with taranto and hopper and it has bitten them on the arse. Doesn't take much

 

[Worm4]

You could just rephrase SOTY to ‘How many premiership players do Carlton have?’

We have plenty of premiership players. 16 flags would mean that list is quite substantial. None are available for selection this week however

 

[CCurnow3votes]

How many premiership Players are Carlton missing this week?

6 from the 2024 premiership team

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Collingwood in the race for McCluggage. Wonder what they will offer him?

Just saw on Twitter (so it must be true) that it's $950k over 8 years!!

Good to see the Pies completely abandon the draft. Seen this movie before from my own club and it doesn't work out well. What Father Sons do they have coming through to save them this time around?

Haven't drafted anyone of note since Quaynor really, and the VFL is losing most weeks - I think its a bad move to buy their way out of trouble tbh.

Seeing as it's taken you 25 years to get back up I'd say the Collingwood/Geelong/Sydney model has some merit, they've only won 8 flags combined in that timeframe.

Full credit to the Blues for getting it right this time....but it's getting harder and harder to do that, particularly in the compromised drafting era we live in.

Clubs have figured out that you can't rebuild 'traditionally' anymore, and that bringing in a mixture of FA, moneyball pickups, and young talent while making your club an attractive proposition for the future is the way to go.

I'd say Carlton with Cook at the helm will adopt a similar philosophy over the next few years.

They won't go straight back down the bottom voluntarily, only minnows do these days.

 

[beerbandit]

We have plenty of premiership players. 16 flags would mean that list is quite substantial. None are available for selection this week however

Spewing, I was hoping you guys would name Adrian Whitehead and Matt Clape

 

[beerbandit]

Pies are going to lose up to 8 quality premiership players ( apparently premiership players are hard to replace ) , so getting 8 top notch replacements will be extremely difficult to do. Go through the draft for some short term pain and start peaking for when Tassie come in, or try and top up but at some point that bubble will burst as well. Look at Richmond - thought they could bring in young talent with taranto and hopper and it has bitten them on the arse. Doesn't take much

Are we losing 8 players in one go ?

You must listen to Sam McClure and Sam
Edmund

 

[South of the Yarra]

6 from the 2024 premiership team

Is there a mid-season draft?

 

[South of the Yarra]

Carlton's youngest surviving premiership player turns 50 next year.

 

[Thrawn]

Carlton's youngest surviving premiership player turns 50 next year.

Surviving?

Did someone die?

 

[South of the Yarra]

Surviving?

Did someone die?

I would sadly suggest that many Carlton Premiership players have died over the years.

 

[Thrawn]

I would sadly suggest that many Carlton Premiership players have died over the years.

Will we be expecting you to be South of the Macquarie Island after Friday night?

 

[Arr0w]

Of course.

In the same way Carlton 'overtook' Collingwood in 2012.

And again in 2022, when Collingwood's list was pathetic and culture a disgrace, and they were set for 5 to 10 years of Carlton like mediocrity.

Oh wait...

Same as 2021 too yeah

 

[South of the Yarra]

Will we be expecting you to be South of the Macquarie Island after Friday night?

No, you can expect me to be at the MCG singing Good Old Collingwood as we humiliate Carlton.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

You have probably the best 6 or so stars in the AFL. Its your bottom half that is the difference between a flag and a prelim loss.

Only just saw this and I am laughing.

Are we referring to a few of these 6 stars who people continue hanging crap on for either not performing well enough or going missing in the finals like I don't know... Charlie Curnow and maybe Patrick Cripps? How about Harry McKay who was getting absolutely mocked by media and opposition supporters everywhere?

How exactly did the blues get as far as a preliminary final last year if they were all supposedly below average throughout the 3 finals games?

If they were being criticised for bring below average, then they sure weren't lifting the team. And if our stars aside from Sam Walsh weren't lifting the team... who was exactly?

 

[Worm4]

Are we losing 8 players in one go ?

You must listen to Sam McClure and Sam
Edmund

Pendlebury 36
Howe 33
Sidebottom 33
Cox 33
Elliott 31
Mihocek 31
Mitchell 30
Hoskin-Elliott 30
Crisp 30
Cameron 28
Moore 28
De Goey 28

No, you won't lose them all at once, but you might lose 3 or 4 at a time and replacing them with ready made players is difficult especially if they are kids from the national draft. The ones that are 28-31 are of note because of the compromised draft in 2027. Pies could lose all 8 and have no draft capital .
Will be interesting to see which direction Fly takes

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Are we in trouble ?

What makes you think Collingwood are in trouble?

Ageing list - you can't deny that. You'll need some very savvy list management to replace the elder statesman. Losing Pendles influence around the club will be nigh on impossible to replace as well. Especially as your drafting has been poor for a few years now.

Seeing as it's taken you 25 years to get back up I'd say the Collingwood/Geelong/Sydney model has some merit, they've only won 8 flags combined in that timeframe.

Full credit to the Blues for getting it right this time....but it's getting harder and harder to do that, particularly in the compromised drafting era we live in.

Clubs have figured out that you can't rebuild 'traditionally' anymore, and that bringing in a mixture of FA, moneyball pickups, and young talent while making your club an attractive proposition for the future is the way to go.

I'd say Carlton with Cook at the helm will adopt a similar philosophy over the next few years.

They won't go straight back down the bottom voluntarily, only minnows do these days.

I agree. However, I think Collingwood are different from Sydney & Geelong. Both of these clubs almost have a geographical monopoly in their location.

Sydney have access to the academy and their only competition in NSW is GWS - which isn't necessarily a destination club (yet). If a player wants out of the limelight to Sydney, it's an easy win - so they can avoid bottoming out pretty easily and get access to top end talent from the academies.

Whilst Geelong have their very own "go home" factor. As a town it produces a ridiculous amount of footballers and when they want to "go home" they have nobody to compete with. They've manipulated it perfectly and it's a full credit to them. Aside from this, the lifestyle they can offer to players hitting the tail-end of their careers is something that can't be offered anywhere else, which again, allows them to land recruits easier than everyone else and are not required to top up.

Collingwood don't have either of these. They still have to compete with 8 other Melbourne clubs, and when they come back to the pack it won't be that easy - especially if Essendon, Carlton & Richmond have their act together. They also won't have 2 borderline-generation talents F/S landing in their lap again. Don't get me wrong, I actually still think they can win it this year, but I'll be surprised if they're not forced to bottom out for a bit. If they start throwing the kitchen sink at every Free Agent available then it'll be obvious they're hitting the panic button.

 

[PP34]

Pendlebury 36
Howe 33
Sidebottom 33
Cox 33
Elliott 31
Mihocek 31
Mitchell 30
Hoskin-Elliott 30
Crisp 30
Cameron 28
Moore 28
De Goey 28

No, you won't lose them all at once, but you might lose 3 or 4 at a time and replacing them with ready made players is difficult especially if they are kids from the national draft. The ones that are 28-31 are of note because of the compromised draft in 2027. Pies could lose all 8 and have no draft capital .
Will be interesting to see which direction Fly takes

Certainly going to be interesting.

The Pies since Pendles have been around have pretty much always managed to avoid bottoming out.

Basically have achieved what the Hawks and Tigers tried to do but have failed at.

 

[adammania9]

You could just rephrase SOTY to ‘How many premiership players do Carlton have?’

The last premiership player at Carlton was Dale Thomas

 

[Worm4]

The last premiership player at Carlton was Dale Thomas

what exactly is your point and what does it have to do with who will be better in 2024 ?

 

[adammania9]

what exactly is your point and what does it have to do with who will be better in 2024 ?

It is simply an amusing anecdote