Opinion VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[GoalSneak38]

SA and WA stuffed up big time and only have ourselves to blame. They should have formed an alliance in the 80's and said to the VFL we are not interested in joining your little state league, we will only participate in a new AFL competition - so get rid of half your clubs and get back to us. VFL was a financial basket case at the time so they needed us more than we needed them. We held the position of power yet somehow got screwed over and now the horse has bolted. Those in charge of the WAFL and SANFL back then should hang their heads shame. If you designed a new AFL competition from scratch it would look nothing like this Victorian dominated dogs breakfast we have at present.

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Don’t watch it then and continue to watch the utter rubbish that you call SANFL


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[GoalSneak38]

An interesting thought. I wonder what the uproar would be like if Optus Stadium and Adelaide Oval (and the WA/SA govt respectively) signed 50 year agreements with the AFL to host prelims?

Now would be a great time to try it by offering some much needed cash to the AFL.

Adelaide Oval. Imagine watching a game with only 40 odd thousand fans. What an atmosphere!


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[Topkent]

There are still plenty of people on this board though that argue that Victorian teams don't get an advantage from playing the Grand Final at the MCG. It is some rather tortured logic, but you are never going to be able to convince them otherwise.

There is no advantage outside of travelling During GF week from playing at the G.
You stupid people don't realize that there isn't a true home ground advantage on the day, the crowds split evenly with a huge number of corporates involved aswell which eliminates the umpiring bias the home team gets with crowd influence.

The only remaining 'advantange' is the ground dimensions. Perth stadium is 4m longer and 8m wider
If you're players are too ******* stupid to work out don't kick it over the boundary line because it's 4m away on either side then they ain't making the GF anyway.

 

[Apsaalooke]

SA and WA stuffed up big time and only have ourselves to blame. They should have formed an alliance in the 80's and said to the VFL we are not interested in joining your little state league, we will only participate in a new AFL competition - so get rid of half your clubs and get back to us. VFL was a financial basket case at the time so they needed us more than we needed them. We held the position of power yet somehow got screwed over and now the horse has bolted. Those in charge of the WAFL and SANFL back then should hang their heads shame. If you designed a new AFL competition from scratch it would look nothing like this Victorian dominated dogs breakfast we have at present.

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That's exactly what the SANFL was trying to do by holding out on joining the AFL/VFL in the early 90's - to start a real Australian comp, not an expanded VFL. They had already registered the name Adelaide Football Club a few years before in preparation.
Ross Oakley forced their hand by offering Port Adelaide entry instead, knowing full well that the SANFL would have to form a club overnight and join on Victorian terms. There was never any intention to let Port in before the Adelaide composite side - nasty move by Oakley but admittedly clever.

 

[Apsaalooke]

There is no advantage outside of travelling During GF week from playing at the G.
You stupid people don't realize that there isn't a true home ground advantage on the day, the crowds split evenly with a huge number of corporates involved aswell which eliminates the umpiring bias the home team gets with crowd influence.

The only remaining 'advantange' is the ground dimensions. Perth stadium is 4m longer and 8m wider
If you're players are too ******* stupid to work out don't kick it over the boundary line because it's 4m away on either side then they ain't making the GF anyway.

Home ground advantage matters for every sports game in the history of the world and for all minor and major round AFL matches ever played but magically disappears on Grand Final day. Thats just plain deluded.

 

[Apsaalooke]

Adelaide Oval. Imagine watching a game with only 40 odd thousand fans. What an atmosphere!


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You've obviously never been to a prelim at Adelaide Oval with over 50,000 fans in a cauldron. The atmosphere and noise is electric.

 

[Genghis Tron]

Looking at this it would appear that the travel loads haven't really affected certain teams that much and true home ground advantage has helped quite a bit. Top 3 teams have what I would consider the best home ground advantage (not complaining about it) so if the argument boils down to certain teams get to play the GF in their home ground why don't we/the AFL invest in a completely neutral ground somewhere that only gets finals/the grand final.

Surely that would go some way to appeasing people.

 

[Dan]

If I'm invited to some form of congregation......ie Birthday, Wedding etc I go knowing I'm not obligated to be here and that it would be rude on my part to complain to the host about my experience at the event.

Just saying thank you will be enough.

 

[1990crow]

If I'm invited to some form of congregation......ie Birthday, Wedding etc I go knowing I'm not obligated to be here and that it would be rude on my part to complain to the host about my experience at the event.

Just saying thank you will be enough.

Obnoxiously irrelevant perspective.
Non vic clubs saved the VFL/AFL from bankruptcy, so if the “invitee” didn’t turn up, there would be no congregation.

Short memories.

 

[Topkent]

Home ground advantage matters for every sports game in the history of the world and for all minor and major round AFL matches ever played but magically disappears on Grand Final day. Thats just plain deluded.

Home ground advantage is crowds, that's it.

GF day the crowds split. I'd love to hear about all the other magical advantages

 

[Corkintheocean]

Adelaide Oval. Imagine watching a game with only 40 odd thousand fans. What an atmosphere!


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The thought was less about the stadia involved and more about the fact that the AFL appears to be for sale at the right price.

 

[Scotland]

Home ground advantage is crowds, that's it.

GF day the crowds split. I'd love to hear about all the other magical advantages

The neutrality of the G is a curious beast. People need to make up their minds. Funny how the narrative was completely different in 2005 and 2006 playing Sydney (both teams travelling, neither team's home ground) compared to 2015 and 2018 playing MCG tenants.

In 2018 Collingwood played 14 H&A games at the MCG (their home ground), then a home semi there, then an away prelim there, then the GF.

We played there twice, Rd 5 and Rd 17. Having finished top 2 and won our home QF and prelim, we flew to Victoria the week of the GF.

So you had 2nd playing 3rd, who they had beaten during the H&A season and during the finals, at 3rd's home ground, on the other side of the country to where 2nd plays, with 3rd having played their previous two games there. In the AFL they call that 'neutral' and keep a straight face.

Pretty reasonable case that Collingwood are slightly more familiar with the MCG given it has been their home ground for two decades.

Pretty reasonable case that flying 3-4 hours two days before a game is preferable to not doing so.

I tell you what. In the name of science, the next time WC or Freo finish top 2 and win the home QF/PF double, we'll play the GF in Perth. The AFL will sell 50k of the seats to corporates anyway so the remaining 10k can be split 50/50 between the competing clubs. So there's no noise of affirmation and all that. Could even do it this year seeing as there probably won't be crowds at all.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I have a genuine question as to why teams complain about a #VICBIAS , but before you answer why you think there is one, please read these facts before you do:

All these facts were before each club CHOSE to enter the competition, not changed after-

- The GF has been locked in at the G for years, that was the case before any club entered from outside Vic, and let's be honest, as the home of footy, was never likely to be changed either
- In fact, at the time of entering the comp, at least 1 Prelim was meant to be guaranteed at the G also, that has actually moved back to teams earning the right to host
- When choosing to enter the comp, there was already 10 teams in Melb... THIS IS NOT NEW. Non-Vic teams where always going to have to travel every second week while Vic teams play away games still in VIC. Where do you expect Vic teams to play away games against other Vic teams... no seriously, where?
- People whinge it's still the old VFL... It is, the AFL is not a newly formed comp, it is a rebranded/renamed version of the existing comp non Vic teams again CHOSE to join

On the flip side, things that are now (or at one time have been) in place that weren't in place before No Vic teams joined the comp:

- National draft, gone are the days every kid in a zone was linked to that club. By weight of numbers alone, Vic produces the most talent at U18 levels, and that is now open and available to ALL teams to select talent in the draft
- Academy Zones, traditionally for non Vic states, even though now each club has its own zone.
- Salary Cap relief/Cola, again for periods of time, Non Vic teams at one time or another have been given advantages not afforded to Vic Teams

Now I'm a West Australian, and if there was a proper SOO match tomorrow, I would be in the Sandgropers corner in a heart beat, so this is not coming from your "typical Victorian"...
And I certainly appreciate and respect the fact that Non-Vic teams have to travel a hell of a lot more than Vic teams...

So the question, honestly is this, if each Non-Vic club knew all of these FACTS before they CHOSE to enter the competition, why is there all a sudden a cry of #VICBIAS

If it was soooo bad, why did your clubs still want to enter the competition?

So in summary, the AFL is heavily biased towards Victoria and Victorian clubs.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

A. Interstate sides have to travel, a big disadvantage.
B. Interstate sides play 12 home games on their own deck, big advantage.

Compare the home game advantage with my club who play 6 at Marvel and 5 at the MCG and also travelled to every state last year. So you got a give some and take some and also it wouldn't hurt to share the Grand Final around.

That's actually the truth.

The bias/disadvantage in the AFL lies with the smaller clubs.

Interstate clubs at least get a home ground advantage.
Big clubs don't leave the MCG.

Interstate clubs have the 'go home factor' in their favour. Big clubs get all the home sick Vic boys.

The small Vic clubs are the ones at the real disadvantage.


The AFL isn't Victorian biased. They're money biased.

 

[Big Crow]

There have been a number of grand finals over the past ten years where a higher ranked interstate team has played a Victorian team at the MCG, and to me this is completely unfair irrespective of whether the interstate team manages to overcome the odds and win. You can discuss the advantage of having a genuine home ground advantage during the season, but the Grand Final isn't played played during the season.

The mentality is 'ah well, if the (interstate) team is good enough they'll win it anyway' but that isn't the point. They shouldn't have to rise up above an unfair playing field.

You can talk about the logistics of playing a Grand Final all you want (and it is logistically possible to hold it elsewhere), the current system is broken, and wont be fixed for another 40 years. I can see why so many interstate supporters feel aggrieved.

A good point perfectly made.

I see people countering this point saying things like “your club signed up for this”, or “if you don’t like it then don’t follow the league”. I love my club, but honestly having the deciding match for the entire season locked into an away venue regardless of win/loss makes a mockery of the league and it does sometimes make me want to stop following.

There is a growing sentiment here in SA that the league is severely slanted, and I can see it becoming a serious problem for the AFL if they don’t address it.

 

[Lolbert]

You've obviously never been to a prelim at Adelaide Oval with over 50,000 fans in a cauldron. The atmosphere and noise is electric.

As good an experience and any other stadium. Fantastic atmosphere

 

[Big Crow]

SA and WA stuffed up big time and only have ourselves to blame. They should have formed an alliance in the 80's and said to the VFL we are not interested in joining your little state league, we will only participate in a new AFL competition - so get rid of half your clubs and get back to us. VFL was a financial basket case at the time so they needed us more than we needed them. We held the position of power yet somehow got screwed over and now the horse has bolted. Those in charge of the WAFL and SANFL back then should hang their heads shame. If you designed a new AFL competition from scratch it would look nothing like this Victorian dominated dogs breakfast we have at present.

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You’re not wrong, but I’m sure you’re aware of what forced South Australia into making an unnecessarily hasty entry...

 

[GoalSneak38]

You've obviously never been to a prelim at Adelaide Oval with over 50,000 fans in a cauldron. The atmosphere and noise is electric.

You’ve obviously never been to a Grand Final with double that amount at the G. If I were a player I’d know what I’d prefer. The Ferrari or the Hyundai Excel?


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[Apsaalooke]

You’ve obviously never been to a Grand Final with double that amount at the G. If I were a player I’d know what I’d prefer. The Ferrari or the Hyundai Excel?


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I have actually. Both good experiences. Players of all sides have said how good the atmosphere a full house at Adelaide Oval is. The noise factor is no different due to the shape of the stadiums with less dissipation in Adelaide.
I've also been in the nosebleed stands at the MCG and could barely see the teams. There are no bad seats at Adelaide Oval.

 

[Rich01]

The neutrality of the G is a curious beast. People need to make up their minds. Funny how the narrative was completely different in 2005 and 2006 playing Sydney (both teams travelling, neither team's home ground) compared to 2015 and 2018 playing MCG tenants.

In 2018 Collingwood played 14 H&A games at the MCG (their home ground), then a home semi there, then an away prelim there, then the GF.

We played there twice, Rd 5 and Rd 17. Having finished top 2 and won our home QF and prelim, we flew to Victoria the week of the GF.

So you had 2nd playing 3rd, who they had beaten during the H&A season and during the finals, at 3rd's home ground, on the other side of the country to where 2nd plays, with 3rd having played their previous two games there. In the AFL they call that 'neutral' and keep a straight face.

Pretty reasonable case that Collingwood are slightly more familiar with the MCG given it has been their home ground for two decades.

Pretty reasonable case that flying 3-4 hours two days before a game is preferable to not doing so.

I tell you what. In the name of science, the next time WC or Freo finish top 2 and win the home QF/PF double, we'll play the GF in Perth. The AFL will sell 50k of the seats to corporates anyway so the remaining 10k can be split 50/50 between the competing clubs. So there's no noise of affirmation and all that. Could even do it this year seeing as there probably won't be crowds at all.

There should be no argument regarding the advantage an MCG tenant has for Grand Finals vs a non tenant.

Nor should there be any argument that clubs like West Coast and Fremantle have the best true home ground advantage during the home and away and finals series (apart from GF) for non WA clubs.

Apart from the contract that’s been signed worth hundreds of millions of dollars to the AFL, there should be no issue in having the GF rotated or played at the highest teams home ground.

McGowan has been quite public in his call for equity in the comp. How would you feel if he forked out taxpayer cash to help pay out the contract?

 

[AstonSouffle]

Saints werent allowed to host the 2009 grand final at Etihad, forced onto the MCG

It's comments like this that have to be a joke lol, you can't be serious can you?

 

[juss]

The neutrality of the G is a curious beast. People need to make up their minds. Funny how the narrative was completely different in 2005 and 2006 playing Sydney (both teams travelling, neither team's home ground) compared to 2015 and 2018 playing MCG tenants.

In 2018 Collingwood played 14 H&A games at the MCG (their home ground), then a home semi there, then an away prelim there, then the GF.

We played there twice, Rd 5 and Rd 17. Having finished top 2 and won our home QF and prelim, we flew to Victoria the week of the GF.

So you had 2nd playing 3rd, who they had beaten during the H&A season and during the finals, at 3rd's home ground, on the other side of the country to where 2nd plays, with 3rd having played their previous two games there. In the AFL they call that 'neutral' and keep a straight face.

Pretty reasonable case that Collingwood are slightly more familiar with the MCG given it has been their home ground for two decades.

Pretty reasonable case that flying 3-4 hours two days before a game is preferable to not doing so.

I tell you what. In the name of science, the next time WC or Freo finish top 2 and win the home QF/PF double, we'll play the GF in Perth. The AFL will sell 50k of the seats to corporates anyway so the remaining 10k can be split 50/50 between the competing clubs. So there's no noise of affirmation and all that. Could even do it this year seeing as there probably won't be crowds at all.

The travel a few days before is a negligible factor for the elite athletes playing footy for 2 hours once the adrenaline kicks in. They are well and truly ready and primed physically for a once off game.

The advantage lies in familiarity with the ground, and probably in the routine and comfort of being at home. This would effect individuals differently though.

 

[Colonial]

Won’t end well but I’m bored so why not.

- The GF has been locked in at the G for years, that was the case before any club entered from outside Vic, and let's be honest, as the home of footy, was never likely to be changed either

but an extension was organised and signed in secret only recently.

- In fact, at the time of entering the comp, at least 1 Prelim was meant to be guaranteed at the G also, that has actually moved back to teams earning the right to host

As it should have been, of course the highest finishing team should get the home ground advantage.

- When choosing to enter the comp, there was already 10 teams in Melb... THIS IS NOT NEW. Non-Vic teams where always going to have to travel every second week while Vic teams play away games still in VIC. Where do you expect Vic teams to play away games against other Vic teams... no seriously, where?

No one said that it isn’t necessary for the moment, but it does make the argument of some that there are too many teams in 1 city for a national comp valid

- People whinge it's still the old VFL... It is, the AFL is not a newly formed comp, it is a rebranded/renamed version of the existing comp non Vic teams again CHOSE to join

Don’t want to be a national competition don’t try to start one is a valid response.

- National draft, gone are the days every kid in a zone was linked to that club. By weight of numbers alone, Vic produces the most talent at U18 levels, and that is now open and available to ALL teams to select talent in the draft

All for the national draft, even though background is a sport of clubs developing players from an early stage themselves, but the pool has to be fairly and evenly spread for it to work. Academies, Father Son etc etc mean it’s not an equal uneffected draft.

- Academy Zones, traditionally for non Vic states, even though now each club has its own zone.

Yep it was a benefit for the Northern clubs, not so much now. But if there was a national under 18s then the we wouldn’t have them.

- Salary Cap relief/Cola, again for periods of time, Non Vic teams at one time or another have been given advantages not afforded to Vic Teams

Can’t say anything about the Swans, but Giants and Suns Cola was only due to extra list spots. As the list numbers came down so did the cap.

So the question, honestly is this, if each Non-Vic club knew all of these FACTS before they CHOSE to enter the competition, why is there all a sudden a cry of #VICBIAS

it’s not a new cry.
If it was soooo bad, why did your clubs still want to enter the competition?[/QUOTE]

I would say the non Victorian clubs were hoping that as the competition grew as a National competition then so would fairness, the national media outlook (I note you didn’t bring up the national media that is focused squarely not Melbourne clubs) etc etc

It’s the same arguments and queries rightly brought up by non Sydney NRL fans(for the most part.

 

[Colonial]

Having to travel more is also a trade off of having more home games. Most vic games are neutral. Easier for a non vic team make the finals during their lean years as they can win more points through their game ground advantage.

But they then also don’t have as many away games, That’s no trade off.

It isn’t changing as we aren’t going to 2 Victorian clubs but let’s not make up advantages.

 

[Corkintheocean]

The small Vic clubs are the ones at the real disadvantage.


The AFL isn't Victorian biased. They're money biased.

#povobias