List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II

[Sully111]

I think DeGoey very very seriously considered our offer, i

Why?

 

[phantom13]

I wanna know how the * are we not in the box seat for this Bowes and 7 deal.

We’re the only club with something that GC want and we know we have the cap room.

 

[phantom13]

Why?

Just a hunch and the media reporting.

There’s no real facts either way on whether he did or didn’t, it’s entirely opinion based.

 

[bergholt]

And in that case it would be Hunter Clark who is being cruel to Hunter Clark.

Yeah sometimes you have to let 20-somethings make their own bad decisions

 

[gringo2011]

The risk is he isn't good and takes a developing players spot. Actually that would be the reality.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

I think he's a pretty good player myself. Not that far off Tom Mitchell and is a better player than Brad IMO. Was averaging 33 possessions a game in 2017 his fourth season, also made AA. His contested possessions would have been as many as our whole side would have averaged in that era. Broke the AFL disposal record that year, won Age player of the year award etc. To me he'd probably push a guy like Ross out of the side and let you sit Gresham forward or on the outside where he doesn't have to do the inside heavy lifting.

As much as the Lions got good from Lauchie Neale choosing to go to them, Jarrod Lyon probably had nearly as big an impact. I find it funny how we all know we aren't quite up to it but if anyone suggests a decent player on the cheap he wouldn't even make our reserves grade all of a sudden.

 

[bergholt]

AFL 2022: Gary Buckenara analyses the St Kilda list at the end of the 2022 season​

Contender or pretender? It shapes as a defining summer for St Kilda and several key calls must be made. But the Saints have been given a big warning about offloading young talent.

Gary Buckenara

6 min read
September 29, 2022 - 6:00AM

St Kilda​

St Kilda fans must be getting impatient – and I don’t blame them.
In Brett Ratten’s fourth season at the club, the Saints missed the September party again.
The Saints showed good form – at times – in 2022, but they remain too inconsistent with their performances.
They are a bit like the proverbial box of chocolates; you’re never too sure what team you’re going to get from week to week.
The Saints probably haven’t had the best run with injuries, but all clubs can point to players that have missed as an excuse.
The biggest issue is the quality of top-end talent compared to the top-four sides and their skill execution going forward is also a concern.

Where will St Kilda finish in 2023?​

Top four
5th-8th
9th-12th
13th-18th
Cast your vote


They have an A-grade ruckman in Rowan Marshall – now with the stage to himself after the retirement of Paddy Ryder – who can win stoppages, but the Saints are unable to capitalise by hand or foot going forward.
Overall, the Saints have been a let-down again in 2022. This group, as it stands, is not capable of being a serious challenger or winning a flag.
If they are to have any chance of becoming a contender in the next couple of years, they will need to improve their skill level and decision making, which can be hard to do.
Adding elite, skilled players via the draft and through trade is one way but it takes time to integrate them into the team.
The Saints have already farewelled four players from their list with the retirements of Jarryn Geary, Dan Hannebery, Dean Kent and Ryder.

It’s time for the Saints to invest in more players through the draft as their stocks of 21-and- under players is too low.
They have invested in recycled players and traded players for them, which hasn’t always paid off.
Investing in players via the draft and developing them, rather than going for depth players needs to be the list management plan.
Brad Hill, Ryder, Zak Jones and Dougal Howard all added to the list, but it is time to have a look at highly skilled and footy-smart young players.
Captain Jack Steele leads the Saints’ A-grade players, while young forward Max King has developed quickly into top-line talent.
King is the kind of young star a club can build a flag-winning team around and the Saints would want to make sure they don’t waste too many of his burgeoning years.
Jack Sinclair’s All-Australian season elevates him to A-grade status, while Jack Billings’ talent defied an injury-hit year when he was restricted to just eight senior games.

HOW THE RATINGS WORK
At a club level, player ranking is generally based on gradings of A+, A, B+, B, C+, C and the developing players.
My rankings will focus on A, B, C and for the developing 20-year-old and under players will be rated as rising stars (RS) and those that need more time (NMT).
With the younger players, it is important to consider who is coming through and those who need longer to develop.
The most important areas for clubs to look at is how many A and B ranked players they have as well as the rising stars, who I believe should be A and B-grade players in the future.
A
Seb Ross, 29, 187cm, 86kg
Jack Steele, 26, 187cm, 91kg
Max King, 21, 202cm, 97kg
Jack Billings, 26, 185cm, 82kg
Rowan Marshall, 26, 201cm, 105kg
Jack Sinclair, 27, 181cm, 82kg
Callum Wilkie, 26, 191cm, 88kg

B
Nick Coffield, 22, 191cm, 88kg
Zak Jones, 27, 182cm, 80kg
Jade Gresham, 24, 177cm, 80kg
Brad Crouch, 28, 186cm, 85kg
Hunter Clark, 23, 186cm, 83kg
Dan Butler, 26, 182cm, 80kg
Bradley Hill, 28, 182cm, 80kg
Dougal Howard, 26, 199cm, 97kg
Ben Long, 24, 183cm, 80kg
Jack Higgins, 23, 178cm, 79kg
Josh Battle, 23, 193cm, 92kg
Tim Membrey, 28, 188cm, 88kg
Jimmy Webster, 28, 188cm, 84kg
Daniel McKenzie, 26, 184cm, 83kg

C
Ryan Byrnes, 21, 180cm, 81kg
Jack Bytel, 22, 189cm, 84kg
Jarrod Lienert, 27, 195cm, 88kg
Mason Wood R, 28, 192cm, 87kg
Ben Paton, 23, 186cm, 83kg
Tom Highmore, 24, 193cm, 89kg
Tom Campbell, 30, 201cm, 105cm
Cooper Sharman R, 21, 193cm, 83kg
Jack Hayes, 25, 193cm, 91kg

Developing (20 years and under)
Rising stars:
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, 19, 187cm, 71kg
Marcus Windhager, 19, 185cm, 85kg
Needs more time:
Mitch Owens, 18, 190cm, 85kg
Oscar Adams, 18, 197cm, 85kg
Matthew Allison, 20, 195cm, 79kg
Leo Connolly, 20, 181cm, 78kg
Max Heath R, 19, 204cm, 93kg
Jack Peris R, 18, 176cm, 69kg
Josiah Kyle R, 18, 182cm, 72kg

LIST BREAKDOWN
A-Grade: 7
B-Grade: 14
C-Grade: 9
Rising stars: 2
Need more time: 7

Retired: Jarryn Geary, Dan Hannebery, Dean Kent, Paddy Ryder,

Delisted:
Darragh Joyce


LIST NEEDS
St Kilda’s list, with 23 A, B and rising star players, has got depth but inconsistent efforts still hurt them. The Saints have some promising C-grade players who have emerged from the development categories and hopefully some will continue to develop into A or B-graders in the next few years. I think Tom Highmore and Jack Hayes can definitely elevate themselves with a decent run at it next season. But the number of development players remains too low and they need to invest in this draft to bolster to ensure the future of their list. The Saints need to focus on players with elite kicking skills as this lets the team down far too often going forward. They can win the stoppages well, but too frequently butcher the ball entering F50. This is one reason why players such as Brad Crouch and Zak Jones are rated B grade.


TRADE TARGETS
The Saints have been courting Jordan De Goey, whose future remains in the air. Even though he had a good finals series, my advice would be buyer beware. Has the leopard changed his spots? At his best on the field, De Goey would be an A-grade pick-up and worth a first-round selection. But will he ever realise his immense talent? It’s a big contract they would need to offer and for me it’s a ‘no’. It’s too big a risk to take if it goes pear-shaped. That’s not to say the Saints shouldn’t keep their options open to who else might become available during the trade period, especially if there is a good midfielder with pace and elite foot skills on offer. Maybe they could bring in Matt Crouch to join his brother? Despite a knock on his kicking, I think he uses the ball well, although he doesn’t have great leg speed. The upside is he wouldn’t cost them anything.

TRADE BAIT
The Saints have a lot of A and B-ranked players, so I would be testing the market to see who might tempt rival clubs in a bid to get another early pick. Brad Hill is open to exploring his options to join a fourth club, while Ben Long wants to continue his career at the Gold Coast Suns. But the Saints won’t get early picks for either of those players; maybe a second-round for Hill given salary considerations and a third-round for Long. Nick Coffield, Jade Gresham or Hunter Clark might appeal to some clubs, but their recruiting team has to weigh up the benefits versus the negatives of trading these types of players and what they can get in return. But I think the Saints have to explore these options, especially when the list, as it stands, is unlikely to win them a flag.
The Saints need a first-round pick for Hunter Clark who has long been considered their best young talent alongside Max King.
It’s the same story with Nick Coffield and Jade Gresham, it has to be an early pick if the Saints are going to win out on this deal. If not, then they are better off holding the young talent as they aren’t flushed with it.

CRYSTAL BALL
The Saints are at the crossroads now with this list. They either have to back them in to win a premiership in the next few years, or make some bold decisions and rejuvenate the list with young talent and trade out some players to get more early picks in a strong draft. Personally, I don’t think this list is capable of winning a premiership and they need to make some big calls. They might need to take some steps backwards to move forwards towards a flag. The Saints need to get into the next draft and bring in some young talent with elite skills and competitiveness. Having two great ruckmen on their list – before Ryder’s retirement – was a great weapon for the Saints. They won stoppages, but too often wasted opportunities with poor disposals. They need to address this if they are to become a genuine contender in 2023 and beyond. The club also needs to look at their list management and recruiting team. Getting early picks is one thing, but if you recruit the wrong young talent and trade out experience it can push a list back years. It has been far too long since the Saints had a premiership-contending list. It’s time to act, or pay the price.

Some of those A and B rankings are pretty optimistic

 

[Hayes4PM]

AFL 2022: Gary Buckenara analyses the St Kilda list at the end of the 2022 season​

Contender or pretender? It shapes as a defining summer for St Kilda and several key calls must be made. But the Saints have been given a big warning about offloading young talent.

Gary Buckenara

6 min read
September 29, 2022 - 6:00AM

St Kilda​

St Kilda fans must be getting impatient – and I don’t blame them.
In Brett Ratten’s fourth season at the club, the Saints missed the September party again.
The Saints showed good form – at times – in 2022, but they remain too inconsistent with their performances.
They are a bit like the proverbial box of chocolates; you’re never too sure what team you’re going to get from week to week.
The Saints probably haven’t had the best run with injuries, but all clubs can point to players that have missed as an excuse.
The biggest issue is the quality of top-end talent compared to the top-four sides and their skill execution going forward is also a concern.

Where will St Kilda finish in 2023?​

Top four
5th-8th
9th-12th
13th-18th
Cast your vote


They have an A-grade ruckman in Rowan Marshall – now with the stage to himself after the retirement of Paddy Ryder – who can win stoppages, but the Saints are unable to capitalise by hand or foot going forward.
Overall, the Saints have been a let-down again in 2022. This group, as it stands, is not capable of being a serious challenger or winning a flag.
If they are to have any chance of becoming a contender in the next couple of years, they will need to improve their skill level and decision making, which can be hard to do.
Adding elite, skilled players via the draft and through trade is one way but it takes time to integrate them into the team.
The Saints have already farewelled four players from their list with the retirements of Jarryn Geary, Dan Hannebery, Dean Kent and Ryder.

It’s time for the Saints to invest in more players through the draft as their stocks of 21-and- under players is too low.
They have invested in recycled players and traded players for them, which hasn’t always paid off.
Investing in players via the draft and developing them, rather than going for depth players needs to be the list management plan.
Brad Hill, Ryder, Zak Jones and Dougal Howard all added to the list, but it is time to have a look at highly skilled and footy-smart young players.
Captain Jack Steele leads the Saints’ A-grade players, while young forward Max King has developed quickly into top-line talent.
King is the kind of young star a club can build a flag-winning team around and the Saints would want to make sure they don’t waste too many of his burgeoning years.
Jack Sinclair’s All-Australian season elevates him to A-grade status, while Jack Billings’ talent defied an injury-hit year when he was restricted to just eight senior games.

HOW THE RATINGS WORK
At a club level, player ranking is generally based on gradings of A+, A, B+, B, C+, C and the developing players.
My rankings will focus on A, B, C and for the developing 20-year-old and under players will be rated as rising stars (RS) and those that need more time (NMT).
With the younger players, it is important to consider who is coming through and those who need longer to develop.
The most important areas for clubs to look at is how many A and B ranked players they have as well as the rising stars, who I believe should be A and B-grade players in the future.
A
Seb Ross, 29, 187cm, 86kg
Jack Steele, 26, 187cm, 91kg
Max King, 21, 202cm, 97kg
Jack Billings, 26, 185cm, 82kg
Rowan Marshall, 26, 201cm, 105kg
Jack Sinclair, 27, 181cm, 82kg
Callum Wilkie, 26, 191cm, 88kg

B
Nick Coffield, 22, 191cm, 88kg
Zak Jones, 27, 182cm, 80kg
Jade Gresham, 24, 177cm, 80kg
Brad Crouch, 28, 186cm, 85kg
Hunter Clark, 23, 186cm, 83kg
Dan Butler, 26, 182cm, 80kg
Bradley Hill, 28, 182cm, 80kg
Dougal Howard, 26, 199cm, 97kg
Ben Long, 24, 183cm, 80kg
Jack Higgins, 23, 178cm, 79kg
Josh Battle, 23, 193cm, 92kg
Tim Membrey, 28, 188cm, 88kg
Jimmy Webster, 28, 188cm, 84kg
Daniel McKenzie, 26, 184cm, 83kg

C
Ryan Byrnes, 21, 180cm, 81kg
Jack Bytel, 22, 189cm, 84kg
Jarrod Lienert, 27, 195cm, 88kg
Mason Wood R, 28, 192cm, 87kg
Ben Paton, 23, 186cm, 83kg
Tom Highmore, 24, 193cm, 89kg
Tom Campbell, 30, 201cm, 105cm
Cooper Sharman R, 21, 193cm, 83kg
Jack Hayes, 25, 193cm, 91kg

Developing (20 years and under)
Rising stars:
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, 19, 187cm, 71kg
Marcus Windhager, 19, 185cm, 85kg
Needs more time:
Mitch Owens, 18, 190cm, 85kg
Oscar Adams, 18, 197cm, 85kg
Matthew Allison, 20, 195cm, 79kg
Leo Connolly, 20, 181cm, 78kg
Max Heath R, 19, 204cm, 93kg
Jack Peris R, 18, 176cm, 69kg
Josiah Kyle R, 18, 182cm, 72kg

LIST BREAKDOWN
A-Grade: 7
B-Grade: 14
C-Grade: 9
Rising stars: 2
Need more time: 7

Retired: Jarryn Geary, Dan Hannebery, Dean Kent, Paddy Ryder,

Delisted:
Darragh Joyce


LIST NEEDS
St Kilda’s list, with 23 A, B and rising star players, has got depth but inconsistent efforts still hurt them. The Saints have some promising C-grade players who have emerged from the development categories and hopefully some will continue to develop into A or B-graders in the next few years. I think Tom Highmore and Jack Hayes can definitely elevate themselves with a decent run at it next season. But the number of development players remains too low and they need to invest in this draft to bolster to ensure the future of their list. The Saints need to focus on players with elite kicking skills as this lets the team down far too often going forward. They can win the stoppages well, but too frequently butcher the ball entering F50. This is one reason why players such as Brad Crouch and Zak Jones are rated B grade.


TRADE TARGETS
The Saints have been courting Jordan De Goey, whose future remains in the air. Even though he had a good finals series, my advice would be buyer beware. Has the leopard changed his spots? At his best on the field, De Goey would be an A-grade pick-up and worth a first-round selection. But will he ever realise his immense talent? It’s a big contract they would need to offer and for me it’s a ‘no’. It’s too big a risk to take if it goes pear-shaped. That’s not to say the Saints shouldn’t keep their options open to who else might become available during the trade period, especially if there is a good midfielder with pace and elite foot skills on offer. Maybe they could bring in Matt Crouch to join his brother? Despite a knock on his kicking, I think he uses the ball well, although he doesn’t have great leg speed. The upside is he wouldn’t cost them anything.

TRADE BAIT
The Saints have a lot of A and B-ranked players, so I would be testing the market to see who might tempt rival clubs in a bid to get another early pick. Brad Hill is open to exploring his options to join a fourth club, while Ben Long wants to continue his career at the Gold Coast Suns. But the Saints won’t get early picks for either of those players; maybe a second-round for Hill given salary considerations and a third-round for Long. Nick Coffield, Jade Gresham or Hunter Clark might appeal to some clubs, but their recruiting team has to weigh up the benefits versus the negatives of trading these types of players and what they can get in return. But I think the Saints have to explore these options, especially when the list, as it stands, is unlikely to win them a flag.
The Saints need a first-round pick for Hunter Clark who has long been considered their best young talent alongside Max King.
It’s the same story with Nick Coffield and Jade Gresham, it has to be an early pick if the Saints are going to win out on this deal. If not, then they are better off holding the young talent as they aren’t flushed with it.

CRYSTAL BALL
The Saints are at the crossroads now with this list. They either have to back them in to win a premiership in the next few years, or make some bold decisions and rejuvenate the list with young talent and trade out some players to get more early picks in a strong draft. Personally, I don’t think this list is capable of winning a premiership and they need to make some big calls. They might need to take some steps backwards to move forwards towards a flag. The Saints need to get into the next draft and bring in some young talent with elite skills and competitiveness. Having two great ruckmen on their list – before Ryder’s retirement – was a great weapon for the Saints. They won stoppages, but too often wasted opportunities with poor disposals. They need to address this if they are to become a genuine contender in 2023 and beyond. The club also needs to look at their list management and recruiting team. Getting early picks is one thing, but if you recruit the wrong young talent and trade out experience it can push a list back years. It has been far too long since the Saints had a premiership-contending list. It’s time to act, or pay the price.

Gary Buckenara is a big fan of meth I see. The * is he on about? Jack Billings is an A grader, has he seen Billings the last 2 years??? Gresh is a B grader, wishes he was Jack Billings apparently.... Jack Bytel is a C grader, who the * knows? He doesn't get a game.

 

[gringo2011]

I think there is an argument to be made about whether we were used as a pawn.

Ultimately it does look that way - seeing as he Is apparently staying.

The actual argument is, if we rated him - should we have gone balls deep on an offer and blown the pies away?

But then you get into the waters of being negligent with someone who has issues with behaviour.

Very fine line. So it’s easy to see how people sit on either side of it.

I don't think JDG ever wanted to leave and he wanted the clauses struck so he did use us as a pawn but there was absolutely no harm in chasing him in a responsible way. We put up an offer (for a guy that was only even slightly available because he's an off-field nightmare).... but didn't get Brad Hill desperate and sell our future to get him. I think we handled it pretty well. Chucked our offer in, didn't get it done so moved on.

Nothing ventured nothing gained. I think we handled that like a grown up club would have done it. I can't see anything the club did wrong but I think we were used still. I'm pretty sure that was Sully's point too.

 

[Saintbloke]

I think that we have a sprinkling of good talent, but I definitely think that the club is not getting the best out of some players, and hasn't for a couple of years- coaching and development is a worry.

 

[Armoooo]

We will never know if DeGoey used us as a pawn or not.

Is DeGoey ever going to come out and say "even if Collingwood kept in the 2+3 behavioural clauses, I still would have stayed, just brought the saints to the table to make them sweat."

I think if the terms Collingwood put forward were not to his satisfaction, he would have left. I personally don't think that makes us pawns.

 

[gringo2011]

AFL 2022: Gary Buckenara analyses the St Kilda list at the end of the 2022 season​

Contender or pretender? It shapes as a defining summer for St Kilda and several key calls must be made. But the Saints have been given a big warning about offloading young talent.

Gary Buckenara

6 min read
September 29, 2022 - 6:00AM

St Kilda​

St Kilda fans must be getting impatient – and I don’t blame them.
In Brett Ratten’s fourth season at the club, the Saints missed the September party again.
The Saints showed good form – at times – in 2022, but they remain too inconsistent with their performances.
They are a bit like the proverbial box of chocolates; you’re never too sure what team you’re going to get from week to week.
The Saints probably haven’t had the best run with injuries, but all clubs can point to players that have missed as an excuse.
The biggest issue is the quality of top-end talent compared to the top-four sides and their skill execution going forward is also a concern.

Where will St Kilda finish in 2023?​

Top four
5th-8th
9th-12th
13th-18th
Cast your vote


They have an A-grade ruckman in Rowan Marshall – now with the stage to himself after the retirement of Paddy Ryder – who can win stoppages, but the Saints are unable to capitalise by hand or foot going forward.
Overall, the Saints have been a let-down again in 2022. This group, as it stands, is not capable of being a serious challenger or winning a flag.
If they are to have any chance of becoming a contender in the next couple of years, they will need to improve their skill level and decision making, which can be hard to do.
Adding elite, skilled players via the draft and through trade is one way but it takes time to integrate them into the team.
The Saints have already farewelled four players from their list with the retirements of Jarryn Geary, Dan Hannebery, Dean Kent and Ryder.

It’s time for the Saints to invest in more players through the draft as their stocks of 21-and- under players is too low.
They have invested in recycled players and traded players for them, which hasn’t always paid off.
Investing in players via the draft and developing them, rather than going for depth players needs to be the list management plan.
Brad Hill, Ryder, Zak Jones and Dougal Howard all added to the list, but it is time to have a look at highly skilled and footy-smart young players.
Captain Jack Steele leads the Saints’ A-grade players, while young forward Max King has developed quickly into top-line talent.
King is the kind of young star a club can build a flag-winning team around and the Saints would want to make sure they don’t waste too many of his burgeoning years.
Jack Sinclair’s All-Australian season elevates him to A-grade status, while Jack Billings’ talent defied an injury-hit year when he was restricted to just eight senior games.

HOW THE RATINGS WORK
At a club level, player ranking is generally based on gradings of A+, A, B+, B, C+, C and the developing players.
My rankings will focus on A, B, C and for the developing 20-year-old and under players will be rated as rising stars (RS) and those that need more time (NMT).
With the younger players, it is important to consider who is coming through and those who need longer to develop.
The most important areas for clubs to look at is how many A and B ranked players they have as well as the rising stars, who I believe should be A and B-grade players in the future.
A
Seb Ross, 29, 187cm, 86kg
Jack Steele, 26, 187cm, 91kg
Max King, 21, 202cm, 97kg
Jack Billings, 26, 185cm, 82kg
Rowan Marshall, 26, 201cm, 105kg
Jack Sinclair, 27, 181cm, 82kg
Callum Wilkie, 26, 191cm, 88kg

B
Nick Coffield, 22, 191cm, 88kg
Zak Jones, 27, 182cm, 80kg
Jade Gresham, 24, 177cm, 80kg
Brad Crouch, 28, 186cm, 85kg
Hunter Clark, 23, 186cm, 83kg
Dan Butler, 26, 182cm, 80kg
Bradley Hill, 28, 182cm, 80kg
Dougal Howard, 26, 199cm, 97kg
Ben Long, 24, 183cm, 80kg
Jack Higgins, 23, 178cm, 79kg
Josh Battle, 23, 193cm, 92kg
Tim Membrey, 28, 188cm, 88kg
Jimmy Webster, 28, 188cm, 84kg
Daniel McKenzie, 26, 184cm, 83kg

C
Ryan Byrnes, 21, 180cm, 81kg
Jack Bytel, 22, 189cm, 84kg
Jarrod Lienert, 27, 195cm, 88kg
Mason Wood R, 28, 192cm, 87kg
Ben Paton, 23, 186cm, 83kg
Tom Highmore, 24, 193cm, 89kg
Tom Campbell, 30, 201cm, 105cm
Cooper Sharman R, 21, 193cm, 83kg
Jack Hayes, 25, 193cm, 91kg

Developing (20 years and under)
Rising stars:
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, 19, 187cm, 71kg
Marcus Windhager, 19, 185cm, 85kg
Needs more time:
Mitch Owens, 18, 190cm, 85kg
Oscar Adams, 18, 197cm, 85kg
Matthew Allison, 20, 195cm, 79kg
Leo Connolly, 20, 181cm, 78kg
Max Heath R, 19, 204cm, 93kg
Jack Peris R, 18, 176cm, 69kg
Josiah Kyle R, 18, 182cm, 72kg

LIST BREAKDOWN
A-Grade: 7
B-Grade: 14
C-Grade: 9
Rising stars: 2
Need more time: 7

Retired: Jarryn Geary, Dan Hannebery, Dean Kent, Paddy Ryder,

Delisted:
Darragh Joyce


LIST NEEDS
St Kilda’s list, with 23 A, B and rising star players, has got depth but inconsistent efforts still hurt them. The Saints have some promising C-grade players who have emerged from the development categories and hopefully some will continue to develop into A or B-graders in the next few years. I think Tom Highmore and Jack Hayes can definitely elevate themselves with a decent run at it next season. But the number of development players remains too low and they need to invest in this draft to bolster to ensure the future of their list. The Saints need to focus on players with elite kicking skills as this lets the team down far too often going forward. They can win the stoppages well, but too frequently butcher the ball entering F50. This is one reason why players such as Brad Crouch and Zak Jones are rated B grade.


TRADE TARGETS
The Saints have been courting Jordan De Goey, whose future remains in the air. Even though he had a good finals series, my advice would be buyer beware. Has the leopard changed his spots? At his best on the field, De Goey would be an A-grade pick-up and worth a first-round selection. But will he ever realise his immense talent? It’s a big contract they would need to offer and for me it’s a ‘no’. It’s too big a risk to take if it goes pear-shaped. That’s not to say the Saints shouldn’t keep their options open to who else might become available during the trade period, especially if there is a good midfielder with pace and elite foot skills on offer. Maybe they could bring in Matt Crouch to join his brother? Despite a knock on his kicking, I think he uses the ball well, although he doesn’t have great leg speed. The upside is he wouldn’t cost them anything.

TRADE BAIT
The Saints have a lot of A and B-ranked players, so I would be testing the market to see who might tempt rival clubs in a bid to get another early pick. Brad Hill is open to exploring his options to join a fourth club, while Ben Long wants to continue his career at the Gold Coast Suns. But the Saints won’t get early picks for either of those players; maybe a second-round for Hill given salary considerations and a third-round for Long. Nick Coffield, Jade Gresham or Hunter Clark might appeal to some clubs, but their recruiting team has to weigh up the benefits versus the negatives of trading these types of players and what they can get in return. But I think the Saints have to explore these options, especially when the list, as it stands, is unlikely to win them a flag.
The Saints need a first-round pick for Hunter Clark who has long been considered their best young talent alongside Max King.
It’s the same story with Nick Coffield and Jade Gresham, it has to be an early pick if the Saints are going to win out on this deal. If not, then they are better off holding the young talent as they aren’t flushed with it.

CRYSTAL BALL
The Saints are at the crossroads now with this list. They either have to back them in to win a premiership in the next few years, or make some bold decisions and rejuvenate the list with young talent and trade out some players to get more early picks in a strong draft. Personally, I don’t think this list is capable of winning a premiership and they need to make some big calls. They might need to take some steps backwards to move forwards towards a flag. The Saints need to get into the next draft and bring in some young talent with elite skills and competitiveness. Having two great ruckmen on their list – before Ryder’s retirement – was a great weapon for the Saints. They won stoppages, but too often wasted opportunities with poor disposals. They need to address this if they are to become a genuine contender in 2023 and beyond. The club also needs to look at their list management and recruiting team. Getting early picks is one thing, but if you recruit the wrong young talent and trade out experience it can push a list back years. It has been far too long since the Saints had a premiership-contending list. It’s time to act, or pay the price.

I agree with most of that but trading out Gresham, Clark and Coffield type youth is idiotic. You trade your old guys like Webster, Membrey etc. You could probably even make a case to be brave and chase a cheap developing ruck and sell Marshall for a couple of firsts before players who haven't hit their peak. Otherwise you're selling below their peak value to get one pick who might end up as good.

 

[St Kilda Death]

Yet to see a reliable source on degoey signing.

 

[gringo2011]

I think that we have a sprinkling of good talent, but I definitely think that the club is not getting the best out of some players, and hasn't for a couple of years- coaching and development is a worry.

We still miss that champion class player. King, Snags, Gresh, Clark, Coff, Windy, Owens, Nas types are the ones most likely to go next level. Sinclair, Steele, Crouch types are what they are and aren't going to be able to do more, they need players to storm past them.

Sinclair on ball might be an option to get a star on-baller in. I think his year was close to elite but being played behind the ball is a lot easier to show your wares than as a true contested inside mid.

 

[Hayes4PM]

I wanna know how the * are we not in the box seat for this Bowes and 7 deal.

We’re the only club with something that GC want and we know we have the cap room.

I think given those 2 facts the answer is going to be either; a) Bowes is not keen on coming to us and at the end of the day he's contracted, b) the rumours around the Gold Coast salary dump offer aren't as enticing as claimed (eg. Gold Coast will give pick 7 as a first round upgrade to someone, but will expect a first round pick back) or c) a little from column a and a little from column b.

There's no way Gold Coast are dangling a free first rounder with no strings attached with Bowes happy to go anywhere and we're not interested at all. Every club would be interested in that.

 

[okeydoke7]

Yet to see a reliable source on degoey signing.

It was reported on channel 7 news in their early bulletin yesterday, late afternoon.

So yes, I’m also yet to see a reliable source.

 

[gringo2011]

Gary Buckenara is a big fan of meth I see. The * is he on about? Jack Billings is an A grader, has he seen Billings the last 2 years??? Gresh is a B grader, wishes he was Jack Billings apparently.... Jack Bytel is a C grader, who the * knows? He doesn't get a game.

I think he said he's forecasting. A few of those were a bit odd though. Billings probably was one our best at some points. I think we've forgotten how good he used to be. He suffers from Hill syndrome where he is a soft outsider and people don't rate what he does because of it.

 

[okeydoke7]

I think he said he's forecasting. A few of those were a bit odd though. Billings probably was one our best at some points. I think we've forgotten how good he used to be. He suffers from Hill syndrome where he is a soft outsider and people don't rate what he does because of it.

He suffers from pea heart syndrome, where he puts in very little defensive effort whatsoever. All looks too hard for him, out on his feed, exhausted, can’t push back as a winger. When we get the ball he suddenly recovers. An amazing thing to watch live at a game. That an AFL player gets a game performing so selfishly at his age is beyond me. No matter the talent, it has to be a non negotiable.

Excuse my negativity, I rate his talent highly and really want him to live up to his potential as he can make us a better team. But I’ve watched him up close too many times and he has some disgracefully selfish habits in his game and contributes very very little to team defence. It only takes one weak link in today’s game and it becomes Chinese checkers for the opposition.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Get Ed Phillips back along with his bro Tom, get Bing to come on down, rookie Kai Owens and away we go

Both mckays too

 

[gringo2011]

I think given those 2 facts the answer is going to be either; a) Bowes is not keen on coming to us and at the end of the day he's contracted, b) the rumours around the Gold Coast salary dump offer aren't as enticing as claimed (eg. Gold Coast will give pick 7 as a first round upgrade to someone, but will expect a first round pick back) or c) a little from column a and a little from column b.

There's no way Gold Coast are dangling a free first rounder with no strings attached with Bowes happy to go anywhere and we're not interested at all. Every club would be interested in that.

They gave away Brodie and 2MP with free hits because they needed to unload them. Freo pretty much got paid to take Brodie away. Don's gave up a future fourth that was unlikely to ever be used by GC for Wright who was a former pick 8. For Brodie (former pick 9) and pick 18, 61 and 69, Freo gave a future fourth and future second.

 

[Hayes4PM]

I think he said he's forecasting. A few of those were a bit odd though. Billings probably was one our best at some points. I think we've forgotten how good he used to be. He suffers from Hill syndrome where he is a soft outsider and people don't rate what he does because of it.

Part time forward Billings was so promising. Was looking like a Robbie Gray-Chad Wingard hybrid. The Chad was also a good player back then, so being similar to him didn't seem so bad...

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Nuffy is spelled with a “y” you backwards crawling imbeciles

And are potato cakes scallops you cretin?

 

[Saint_Dos]

What would Jack Payne cost us.
Very handy fullback who isnt guaranteed a game.

Brisbane are in need of picks for points. 3rd Rounder? 2nd Rounder with a future 3rd coming back?

 

[Hayes4PM]

What would Jack Payne cost us.
Very handy fullback who isnt guaranteed a game.

Brisbane are in need of picks for points. 3rd Rounder? 2nd Rounder with a future 3rd coming back?

With Darragu no longer on the last I'd be happy to bring in Payne to keep pressure on Howard. s**t, he might actually be a better option than Howard.

 

[bird_man]

What would Jack Payne cost us.
Very handy fullback who isnt guaranteed a game.

Brisbane are in need of picks for points. 3rd Rounder? 2nd Rounder with a future 3rd coming back?

Not long signed a long deal and Gardener looks gone so if we want him we'd be paying big

 

[Saint_Dos]

With Darragu no longer on the last I'd be happy to bring in Payne to keep pressure on Howard. s**t, he might actually be a better option than Howard.

Would be hard to fit all of Battle, Howard, Wilkie and Payne in backline but feel we need to improve our KPD stocks