Who will be better in 2023 Richmond or Brisbane?

Who will be better in 2023

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Elmer_Judd said:
Honest question (without trying to troll honestly) why do SOME not all, but a vocal minority of Richmond supporters seem to take it personally that some posters rate other clubs chances going into season 2023 (and maybe beyond) than The Tigers.

I was wrong about Geelong going into 2022 (honestly thought their flag window was shut) and I could be very wrong about Richmond in 2023, I just don't believe they have enough speedy midfielders and forward line punch any more to be a serious flag threat, plus I am still yet to be convinced they have an strong enough backline at this stage.

On the plus side, they are getting games into some very quality kids, and I do not believe the Tigers will fall off as dramatically as the likes of Hawthorn and Brisbane after their flag dynastys.

I feel like the are following the Swans template of a semi rebuild, and that is not a bad thing.
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I dont feel like there are many that are, so they?

Apart from a couple of us feeding some pretty hilarious Geelong and Collingwood trolls on our flag era, the commentary seems pretty tame compared to the equivalent Carl vs Coll thread.

Like that thread I believe the two clubs here are of similar calibre.

If discussed on topic it’s a fascinating one, and one worth following. And I’m looking forward to seeing how we compare next year with our changed up teams.
 
FreddyTwoShoes said:
Comprehensive, undisputable analysis. I particularly like "..and that undefeated 50s team or whatever".
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Find the team for me then. It doesn’t matter when it was the argument is the same. Not sure why you don’t know that. Comprehension must not we your strong suit.


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FreddyTwoShoes said:
Yeah, comprehension might not WE my strong suit. Do your own research.
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Don’t need to, you have an issue with it not me. And I’m right, you didn’t rebut my argument yet again. Under no circumstances is Geelong 07-11 the best team ever. The end. Let’s talk about Lions v Tigers in 2023 now.


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Falcon3518 said:
Don’t need to, you have an issue with it not me. And I’m right, you didn’t rebut my argument yet again. Under no circumstances is Geelong 07-11 the best team ever. The end. Let’s talk about Lions v Tigers in 2023 now.


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Show me where I claimed Geelong to be the best team ever.
 
Falcon3518 said:
Don’t need to, you have an issue with it not me. And I’m right, you didn’t rebut my argument yet again. Under no circumstances is Geelong 07-11 the best team ever. The end. Let’s talk about Lions v Tigers in 2023 now.


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Absolutely it Is.
 
FreddyTwoShoes said:
So, not to me then. Cool.

The point of my post was to suggest to you that if you want to make a strong argument for anything, back it up with facts. Don't just vaguely refer to something that you're not really sure about.

You're welcome.
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I'll put my hand up and declare Geelong 07 to 11 as the best team I have ever seen.

Hawks 83 to 91 the second best, well ahead of the other dynasty teams in the 2000's.

Would love to be able to compare them with Melbourne of the late 50's/early 60's and of course the Collingwood Machine 1927 to 30.

However, I'm not sure about that 'undefeated team in the 50's or whatever'.
 
FreddyTwoShoes said:
So, not to me then. Cool.

The point of my post was to suggest to you that if you want to make a strong argument for anything, back it up with facts. Don't just vaguely refer to something that you're not really sure about.

You're welcome.
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It is fact, there was an undefeated team. You are arguing semantics that make no difference whatsoever. You’re welcome.


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Grrr said:
Well it's a pretty outrageous statement that he butchers the ball as often as you say, given that you are pretty much the only one saying it. Maybe he might turn it over occasionally, Dustin Martin is one of Richmond's highest butchers (clangers/turnovers) of the ball as well, but to define him as a player by that is pretty shallow.

No.2 in the national draft, B&F winner, good enough for Richmond recruiters to give draft pics up pick 12 & 19 for, one of GWS's better players, so yeah it is an argument.
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im far from the only person saying this - taranto has consistently ranked amongst the top players in terms of clangers and turnovers per game across his career. if you watch him he is a poor ball user and its not like being one is a preclusion to winning a b&f like you seem to think it is - simpkin is one and won a b&f this year.
 
Fadge said:
I'll put my hand up and declare Geelong 07 to 11 as the best team I have ever seen.

Hawks 83 to 91 the second best, well ahead of the other dynasty teams in the 2000's.

Would love to be able to compare them with Melbourne of the late 50's/early 60's and of course the Collingwood Machine 1927 to 30.

However, I'm not sure about that 'undefeated team in the 50's or whatever'.
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Pies 1929 perfect season in H&A and won the flag. But you don’t have them or Bombers as stronger than Geelong 07-11. Utter hypocrisy.

IMG_6472.JPG




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Falcon3518 said:
Pies 1929 perfect season in H&A and won the flag. But you don’t have them or Bombers as stronger than Geelong 07-11. Utter hypocrisy.

View attachment 1569955




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Ah, 1929. That was the year in the 50's you were talking about? Lost their Semi-Final, so not an entire season - just home and away. Still a very impressive season.

Facts matter.
 
Falcon3518 said:
Pies 1929 perfect season in H&A and won the flag. But you don’t have them or Bombers as stronger than Geelong 07-11. Utter hypocrisy.

View attachment 1569955




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So Collingwood 1929 was the undefeated team, who in fact lost a semi-final?

I'm sure that as a Collingwood supporter it would be highly hypocritical of me to rate a Geelong team ahead of my own (one that I never saw play)...

I regard longevity when considering the best teams I have seen. Single season, yes Essendon 2000 would absolutely be up there, but I can't consider them in the same vein as teams who held their superiority over 5 plus seasons.

My quote was also about 'the best team I have seen'. Those comprehension issues again...
 
FreddyTwoShoes said:
Ah, 1929. That was the year in the 50's you were talking about? Lost their Semi-Final, so not an entire season - just home and away. Still a very impressive season.

Facts matter.
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Yep, who cares about the date point stands. They had a better season than Cats 07-11. End of story they are better according to your logic. Or are you gonna guys dismiss it like usual?


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Fadge said:
Clearly not to some people...
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Cmon mate, dispute it. Why aren’t Bombers 2000 and Pies 1929 better than Cats 07-11? Pies also had the 4peat.

You say longevity but using saints 08-11 against tigers 17-20. It doesn’t matter. Give it up mate you are all over the shop. Cats 07-11 can NEVER be considered the best team. It’s just fact using your own criteria.

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Fadge said:
Meteoric Rise - your claim I hadn't referenced Hawthorn's 2008 flag in my previous post/s... maybe I should have made it clearer for those amongst us with significant comprehension challenges?

Actually, I really couldn't have made it any clearer...

😮😮😮
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I stand corrected on that. But my points about what you are arguing also stand.

1. Richmond 2021 may not be as good a team as Hawthorn 2009, but this is not proven by the fact Hawthorn went on to win 3 Premierships commencing 4 years later as you have claimed. We are only 2 years post Richmond’s 2021 season so they cannot be fairly judged against the Hawks 2009 team on that score.

2. You yourself have clearly given credit to the 2009 Hawks for the club having won the 2008 Premiership. So it should follow you credit Richmond 2021 with winning 3 of the previous 4 titles.

3. The Hawks in 2009 do not become a greater force in hindsight because of what the club later achieved, this is a preposterous claim by you. You are asking us to believe 2009 Essendon and Carlton and Voss coached Brisbane were suddenly an average of over 3 wins better than the “dynasty" Hawks in the 2009 season. Also you would have us believe a slowly collapsing Port Adelaide rose to be roughly on a par with the dynasty Hawks. Your desire to elevate 2009 into a season strong enough to relegate 4 time Premier to 9th has left these Grand Canyon sized gaping holes in your argument. To absolutely nobodies surprise Fadge, given you never seem to learn. 😉

How about just build your position from the ground up starting with the relevant facts like the rest of us Fadge, rather than starting from the point of what you wish was true and trying to shoe-horn poorly selected facts into the picture to suit. You are still drunk on the glory of Collingwood’s great Semiership over the might and power of Fremantle no doubt, so perhaps we should make some allowances for that. 😁
 
Falcon3518 said:
Yep, who cares about the date point stands. They had a better season than Cats 07-11. End of story they are better according to your logic. Or are you gonna guys dismiss it like usual?
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Unlike you, who is clearly comfortable to judge a team or teams based on them playing a single game, most of us are not comfortable to judge teams that we never saw play.

Hence my comment, amongst comments of others when discussing the same topic - 'the best team I've seen play'...
 
Fadge said:
Unlike you, who is clearly comfortable to judge a team or teams based on them playing a single game, most of us are not comfortable to judge teams that we never saw play.

Hence my comment, amongst comments of others when discussing the same topic - 'the best team I've seen play'...
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Oh yeah you can believe what you want even it’s wrong. No problem there. Free country.


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