List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

[Keys]

The Contracts Thread

Updated (20/3/24) the status of all contracts for people’s reference : Overall List - 44 Players : Main List(37), Rookie List(5), Cat B(2) Contracted until the end of 2027 (2) : Tom Barrass (8/10/95) - Signed a 5 year extension (2023,2024,2025,2026,2027) on an existing contract set to...

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[CountryLad]

Shocked Champion at 10, hasn't done anything this season.
Murphy Reid is missing from top 20.

Yeah I was thinking yeah okay I can agree with most of this and then at 10 we have……

 

[Eastern Rangers]

I like the Flynn inclusion. He won’t be a world beater. He’ll nullify the top tier ruckmens influence and have the odd real dominant game here there. More importantly he will be way more competitive that BW around stoppages around the ground. An elite ruckmen is good to have but I’m on the camp of they’re cherry on top players. Only 3 AA ruckmen in the last two odd years have won a premiership

Flynn while we develop Barnett and A.Reid on top of Williams. Obviously we’ve got Jamison as well.


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[Deplorable trumpster]

I wasn't aware of English's concussion issues. That changes things for me. No longer interested in offering him a big contract to get him as a FA, even if he comes for free, with that hanging over things.

He should be p***** at his manager for not getting a trade (with a long term contract) or long contract extension at the Dogs last year when his bargaining power was at a peak being AA and all and no sign of the concussion issues (which he obviously still knew he had). If you have that hanging over you want to get your next big contract done before any problems occur like they did over the summer for him.

That being said, people on here wanting to bank on Flynn are pretty dopey. How about we let the guy string 5 games in a row together without getting injured for the first time in his 9 years in the system before we start thinking we have a viable stop gap for the next 3 or 4 years.

 

[WCEswift]

As this boards resident former ruckman and ruck coach, i agree with Matthews hes too soft to ruck. You have to have a nasty streak in you to jump at your opponent and throw caution to the wind about your own injuries. English doesnt have it, hes just tall

 

[maverick001]

Personally i want Draper.
I think he would be a great fit in our midfield with his agility and speed.

Also get the feeling he'd be another guy to really buy in.

Can't help but agree

 

[Rajeshtalk]

Pretty much agree with all this. KPD situation is a worry tbh - Jamieson has been a surprise, but it's not clear he has the ability to ever actually step into a central role. Acquiring Busslinger sounds good given his pre-draft status, but his not breaking into the AFL at all yet isn't a great sign.

I only watched a couple of games featuring Archer Reid last year, but yeah, even at a glance his gamestyle concerned me. There's a sort of meekness that gives me Brander vibes (a lesson you'd think we'd have learned). Not a big immediate fan.

I'm just fantasising about us going hard and early for Jed Walter.

Sometimes I like to think about how Jed tried to take Harley’s eagles guernsey off him and how he’d like to play for us one day but then watching the vision of Walters graduation class getting around him for his first home game and with fellow graduate team mates it’s gonna be hard

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Forget about getting Curtin from the Crows this year. Weren't they so kean on him that they actually traded up to get a pick high enough to nab him? And you think they are then going to turn around and un-do everything they did to get him and trade him to us a year later?

Even if he is unhappy in Adelaide they will reason that they have him under contract for another two years after this year so they can give it at least another year and see if that changes. And even then i think it would take Horne - Francis calibre blow up between the player and the club for the people who engineered the trade to get the pick specifically to take him to admit they got it wrong and be prepared to trade him after his second year.

For the same group of people who chased after and drafted Curtin to then turn around and trade him back to WA would represent a significant opportunity cost for the club and would mean that the people who made that call to take him admitting they made a costly mistake. There will have to be a whole of water that will have to go under the bridge and things that will need to happen to make that a possibility.

 

[Obeanie1]

Eddie's comments are 100% correct and whilst I get Matthews' stance, English could be 1 concussion off an early retirement. Can't really begrudge him for not going full Jono Brown and recklessly throwing himself at every contest, just to get knocked out.

On the FA side, I think the Flynn signing(despite the current injury) probably indicates WCE's interest in English has definitely waned.

English said he's not interested.

His partner moved from Perth to Melbourne.

And now the Eagles have moved on with Flynn after being knocked back.

Not a hard situation to understand really and sounds like nothing has changed apart from the Dogs looking to refresh the list this off season.

 

[Obeanie1]

Personally i want Draper.
I think he would be a great fit in our midfield with his agility and speed.

Also get the feeling he'd be another guy to really buy in.

Would be very happy with Draper. Read he also plays with a bit of an edge so aggressive.

We have been addressing our midfield weakness at the contest and its showing results. If we somehow split picks and had pick 5 and a later 1st Draper and Bo Allen would be pretty good. Another elite rated mid in Draper and then Bo as a hard nosed rebounding half back / mid who is also at 190cm and quick.

I liked Ben Millers game last week, he was being moved around different opponents but did some good things. Much quicker and more agile than Harry Edwards. 24 years old and OOC.

 

[chaddy22]

Aren’t freo short of kpd depth too? They might be heavily into him too

Not really. Cox and Mcdonald are injured and Draper is doing allright. They have another young key defender in Hugh Davies.
Unless they want to turn Cox into a key forward they have heaps of coverage. Why go to a side and end up behind Pearce, Cox and Ryan and Draper developing nicely.

 

[stallon]

Not really. Cox and Mcdonald are injured and Draper is doing allright. They have another young key defender in Hugh Davies.
Unless they want to turn Cox into a key forward they have heaps of coverage. Why go to a side and end up behind Pearce, Cox and Ryan and Draper developing nicely.

Add Ollie Murphy to that too who they drafted last year, they have an abundance of KPD depth

 

[Lach72]

Aren’t freo short of kpd depth too? They might be heavily into him too

No.
Pearce
cox
Draper
Davies
McDonald

Be last on our list of needs.

 

[Lach72]

Add Ollie Murphy to that too who they drafted last year, they have an abundance of KPD depth

Forgot Murphy too.

Not sure about him…his frame looks like it will take a while to develop, and he’s not overly agile.

Davies and a Draper are quite mobile

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Ultimate pain factor is the go home factor. So we prefer to pick from 10% of population and ignore the 90%.

People hate what Judd did, but love Kennedy more than life. In a funny sort of way, people have compartmentalised each separately vs reality in that Kennedy would never have been at club had Judd stayed.

If Reid leaves, it will also create great opportunity. I’d rather we had that risk and see what we are seeing vs playing it safe based on geography.

Kennedy didn't want to leave Carlton - had to get talked around (voluntold). There's the difference.

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

Personally i want Draper.
I think he would be a great fit in our midfield with his agility and speed.

Also get the feeling he'd be another guy to really buy in.

I really like Draper and lots of people forget about him. I think he's the best kick in the top cohort, with O'Sullivan up there too but then the rest drop away with their kicking skills as CountryLad has touched on. This draft crop are the handballers, lots of them like to link up with chains of handballs and are very good at it, but then when it comes to the kick they're ok - Jagga, Moraes, Smillie and Ashcroft. They'll give a little handball in congestion, run to the outside and get the ball again and often give off again by hand, it's strange that this draft group have so many similar types. It's really noticeable to me.

Draper has speed, good inside/outside game and has a nice kick! Not elite, but a still very good.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

I really like Draper and lots of people forget about him. I think he's the best kick in the top cohort, with O'Sullivan up there too but then the rest drop away with their kicking skills as CountryLad has touched on. This draft crop are the handballers, lots of them like to link up with chains of handballs and are very good at it, but then when it comes to the kick they're ok - Jagga, Moraes, Smillie and Ashcroft. They'll give a little handball in congestion, run to the outside and get the ball again and often give off again by hand, it's strange that this draft group have so many similar types. It's really noticeable to me.

Draper has speed, good inside/outside game and has a nice kick! Not elite, but a still very good.

Interesting observation.

I think it might be trend from top of the game filtering down. There seems to be a dominant play style at AFL level which almost every team is playing with the exception of Freo and Sydney, which you described in your post.

In years gone by there was a lot more diversity in game style than what we are seeing at the moment.

 

[Nuffington Post]

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[kane249]

“Their interest has waned…”: Fresh twist that could change Bulldogs’ trade fortunes

The Western Bulldogs are fighting to re-sign out-of-contract trio Tim English, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan and Bailey Smith.

www.sen.com.au

Eagles interest in Tim English has cooled

 

[FKASC]

“Their interest has waned…”: Fresh twist that could change Bulldogs’ trade fortunes

The Western Bulldogs are fighting to re-sign out-of-contract trio Tim English, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan and Bailey Smith.

www.sen.com.au

Eagles interest in Tim English has cooled

 

[twce13]

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Hardly grounbreaking stuff from cotch there, given dusty looks like he really cbf out there.

Liam baker for our 2nd or pass.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Not sure I'd be looking to offload a top 3 pick and agree I feel we are one mid short of a great quartet.

A smooth operator like a Josh Kelly or Noah Anderson would be my preference. They can't be that hard to find but I'm on the best available midfielder bandwagon.

This off season will be an interesting watch with the new list manager.

ESPN have done an early ranking of the 2024 draft and without exception, they are all midfielders.

1. Jagga Smith - VM
2. Finn O'Sullivn - VC
3. Josh Smillie - VM
4. Syd Draper - SA
5. Levi Ashcroft - Lions F/S and hopefully they have to properly pay for him this year
6. Christian Moraes - VM
7. Tyler Welsh - Crows F/S
8. Sam Lalor - VC
9. Leo Lombard - Suns academy
10. Tom Gross - VM

In discussions late last year with Monocle and Eastcoasteagle, the playing style comparison for Jagga Smith was Josh Kelly while both O'Sullivan and were more like Sam Walsh. Smillie was seen as a Patrick Cripps.

I have seen more of Smillie and FOS being touted as top 2 in a number of other forums so one of these 3 looks good. My personal preference is one of Smith or O'Sullivan. I think we are a lock for a bottom 3 finish and who the flock knows what Norf will do as they surely cannot go for another midfielder (again and again and again)

For anyone thinking that Smith being a Vic Metro is a mummy's boy and a flight risk, here he is with Harley in 2017 in Darwin in the U12 Vic team (along with the Wizard)



And the trio again at the 2023 carnival.



Smith's father was from Tassie and drafted by Collingwood in 1988 but did not play seniors (strong Pie's line up in that period - Premiers in 1990). Therefore although Jagga was born in Melbourne, I would think there are less extended family to hold back. In a recent HUN article, he mentions his friendship with Harley. He also mentions his role this year will be more forward based as he had been given feedback he will be better having 2 strings to his bow. In 2023 and again this season, we have seen he can play as a balanced midfielder. Can he now become a consistent goal scorer?

Smith has left school already and it will be interesting to see what he can do in what will essentially be a full time football role (minus the pay check)

I will be watching his development this year big time.

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

Interesting observation.

I think it might be trend from top of the game filtering down. There seems to be a dominant play style at AFL level which almost every team is playing with the exception of Freo and Sydney, which you described in your post.

In years gone by there was a lot more diversity in game style than what we are seeing at the moment.

I also think potentially a lot of the played Basketball too, and it's come from there.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

A lot of water to go under the bridge but interesting to look at the current draft order.



I am expecting the bottom 4 to look much like this come seasons end. Of those 4, I can see Hawks, Tigers and Eagles all happy to stick and pick an elite midfielder. Norf are the ones likely to be interested in trading back and could be open to offers since they desperately need talls and the talls this year will not be in the top 10.

The Crows are likely to be improve their ladder position but I expect their first pick to be around 10 - therefore Draper is likely off the board. Will the R1 be used on Petty (expect something back) or will they trade up for Draper (adding to their F/S in Welsh) and hence double down on the midfield?


Of the clubs holding multiple early picks : -
Freo have their own, Pies and Ports R1 picks and whilst they hold 3 picks, I see them all in the double figures. Will the purples be pie in the sky trying to get Logan or will they get a reality check? Do they trade up to get an elite mid - Smillie to replace Fyfe is tempting!

Suns will be sluts again with 3 early picks and hopefully the AFL tweak the rules and make them pay up more for the academy prospects. That said, I expect to see them bank points for next year which looks like a stronger academy pool for them plus get a pick in before Lombard.

Dogs do not have a first round pick but Smith is reportedly all but checked out. I expect a future first on offer from Hawks and Pies while the Cats can offer a current R1.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

That is the question and IMO the total oversight when we gave Trew another year. I’ve put a line through him and Baker, not sure if you can just pay them out and take them off the list thus creating a spot but I’d do that in a second if it’s possible, probably Baker. If you can do that I also wouldn’t think twice about taking Gaff or Witherden off the main list either, although Gaff deserves a farewell game for his fantastic contribution to the club over his career and we don’t owe Witherden anything. I wouldn’t want to put Flynn, Oscar or Hewett on the LTI list unless it’s genuine that they aren’t going to play again this year which is very, very unlikely. Bazzo is the other player that’s an option that seemingly has OP. If he does then he should go to the LTI list, be managed properly and be ready to return for a full preseason that would open up a spot to rookie a player.

Why have you put a line through Baker?

He came to us as a scrawny cat B rookie and it improving every week .

Watching the wafl he does some good things . He has some class with his ball movement and is hard at it when its his turn to go .

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

The final and best offer that I understood we had for pick 1 last year was a three way with Norf and Dees

Eagles get picks 6, 11, 15 and 17 and give up pick 1

Norf get pick 1 and give up 3, 15 and 17

Dees get pick 3 and give up 6 and 11

Using the draft to see who got what : -

So instead of Harley, Eagles would have got
6 (became 7) - Curtin (Melbourne actually took Windsor but fair to say we would have taken Curtin)
11 (became 13) - Tholstup (taken by Dees at that pick)
15 (became 20) - Goad (taken by Norf at that pick)
17 - (became 22) - Dawson (taken by Norf at that pick)

Norf would have walked away with just Harley and McKercher in the early rounds (realising the Hardeman pick that they kept was never offered) and not have Dawson (like they are swimming in KPD's already) nor Goad. I think they made a mistake taking both Duursma and McKercher. I would personally have still dealt with Melbourne for 3 as Curtin and Windsor at 6 and 11 are of much greater need for Norf than just Duursma.

Dees would have Duursma (some discussion they also wanted Watson) instead of Windsor and Tholstrup. I think they would be happy the deal did not go through.

Thank you List Management team, you did well to hold your ground and bring in Harley.