Autopsy 2023 Rd 11 It's Groundhog Day ... again

[kreuze_missile]

McKay needs a sports psychologist.

I bet he kicks it beautifully at training.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

NO mate - the players YOU think are awesome are actually just BOG ORDINARY -dont rewrite your own narrative ..

When these players were up and about, they played some exhilarating football... they are certainly capable of a lot more than what they're showing.

It's a combination of poor application from the playing group as well as the coaching group. Choosing one and just blaming that is naïve.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

second guessing, lack of confidence, buying into the hatred from own "supporters", not trusting each other, not going with first instinct, imposter syndrome

Really? I thought we have record membership and big crowds showing up each week...

Yet they're so weak minded that a few supporters who have reached boiling point have dropped their confidence?

President calls for fans to show up v the Dogs...

they do, crowd pumped ready to go, they kick 1 goal till half time...

Sweet Caroline, bom bom bom...

Suddenly, they find something and take the lead in the last quarter... crowd going bananas cheering them on...

Then they get flattened in the last 5 minutes...

Yeah blame the hatred from supporters... if they can't stand the heat go and play for GWS or Norf

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

J

Really? I thought we have record membership and big crowds showing up each week...

Yet they're so weak minded that a few supporters who have reached boiling point have dropped their confidence?

President calls for fans to show up v the Dogs...

they do, crowd pumped ready to go, they kick 1 goal till half time...

Sweet Caroline, bom bom bom...

Suddenly, they find something and take the lead in the last quarter... crowd going bananas cheering them on...

Then they get flattened in the last 5 minutes...

Yeah blame the hatred from supporters... if they can't stand the heat go and play for GWS or Norf

just another way for him to cope. It's HIS club after all. Not like every club in world sport isn't the same or worse re supporter bases (mainly they're worse)... He's also liking posts calling the players out. Bit of a sneaky have it both ways if you don't mind

 

[JustaBattler]

& Dow should never ever play again, doesn’t matter what he does at VFL level, he can’t have possibly improved at all.
100% certainty that he couldn’t bring something different or be useful in anyway

Keep laughing at your own jokes mate - no one else is

New lease on life is a common sports 'cliche' for older over paid stars who 'find it' again under a new coach. So yeah it's plausible.

Would you invest in Carlton if they were a listed company? Using Buffet think you'd focus on management as the crux of company performance not the persons employed by management. I don't think our management passes the test. Easy to blame what you can see and what you can see deserves plenty but in no business in the world do management get away with bad results by blaming their employees. Well, only shitty companies do aka Dying giants or over funded doomed faulty start ups.

Buffet is the world's best marketer mate, people who quote Buffett (a) arent professional investors and cant even read his own reports and (b) don't even know what his business model is but anyway ...

he is full of pithy aphorisms - my favourite one regarding organisations ( and this one is 100% spot on) is:

"...I look for three things in people (managers and employees) and they have to have all three.."

1. Intelligence
2. Enthusiasm
3. Integrity

here is the kicker from Buffett ...ready for it...??? ready???


"....If you get 1 &2 and don't have the third quality you have the worst person/employee...."

As for investing in Carlton as a stock - leaving aside the fact that it is not a for profit company, doesn't control its own market, and operates under arbitrary ever-changing constraints imposed on it by a haphazard dictatorship ( the AFL) I would see Carlton as a deep value stock with easy fixes to make it a growth stock . In fact ( algebraically speaking ) there is no difference between growth and value - but that is another story.

As for players - maybe you need to recalibrate your thinking about what a good player is and isn't ....a good player doesn't let an opposition player rub them out of a game a good player finds a way ...and doesn't need a coach to tell him to lift - that is what integrity btw

Just stop blaming coaches for player weakness deficiency form bad luck or a bad day - just stop - it is a meaningless merry go round - absolving your favourite pet players of responsibility.

 

[JustaBattler]

When these players were up and about, they played some exhilarating football... they are certainly capable of a lot more than what they're showing.

It's a combination of poor application from the playing group as well as the coaching group. Choosing one and just blaming that is naïve.

Everyone is a team shares success and failure be they coach or player- Carlton coaches coaches have a harder time because they have less time than too many players

or to put it another way using your own words above:

When these players were up and about and were better at executing the coaches game plan they played some exhilarating football... they are certainly capable of a lot more than what they're showing.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

J

just another way for him to cope. It's HIS club after all. Not like every club in world sport isn't the same or worse re supporter bases (mainly they're worse)... He's also liking posts calling the players out. Bit of a sneaky have it both ways if you don't mind

Exactly.

Stefano Pioli made the AC Milan players face the fans after a shocking performance against Spezia...

That's because Pioli understands that the fans are the lifeblood of the club and letting them down is unacceptable.

They went all right ever since...

Look at us, apparently there's a Carlton player whinging about supporter abuse now...

If it was up to me, he'd be on the table to go to North or GWS. Go and play for a team with a supporter base that doesn't care.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Everyone is a team shares success and failure be they coach or player- Carlton coaches coaches have a harder time because they have less time than too many players

or to put it another way using your own words above:

I agree, they should definitely be executing the coach's game plan far better than what we're seeing. Turnovers from handballs that hit their teammate's boots or go flying over their head, kicks that miss the target even under no pressure, piss weak tackling etc.

The question is, why are they not executing for so long? They were flat even in preseason training/games.

They can't be blamed for:

• Ed Curnow (not just in the side, but as a tactical sub?)
• MK in the back line
• Silvagni in the ruck
• Game plan that doesn't suit their strengths
• Selection integrity

Like I said, column A and column B

 

[morningbrown]

Crazy to think I'm more apathetic about this club in 2023 than I ever was in 2002-2007 or 2015-2021. Depressing.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Keep laughing at your own jokes mate - no one else is


Buffet is the world's best marketer mate, people who quote Buffett (a) arent professional investors and cant even read his own reports and (b) don't even know what his business model is but anyway ...

he is full of pithy aphorisms - my favourite one regarding organisations ( and this one is 100% spot on) is:

"...I look for three things in people (managers and employees) and they have to have all three.."

1. Intelligence
2. Enthusiasm
3. Integrity

here is the kicker from Buffett ...ready for it...??? ready???


"....If you get 1 &2 and don't have the third quality you have the worst person/employee...."

As for investing in Carlton as a stock - leaving aside the fact that it is not a for profit company, doesn't control its own market, and operates under arbitrary ever-changing constraints imposed on it by a haphazard dictatorship ( the AFL) I would see Carlton as a deep value stock with easy fixes to make it a growth stock . In fact ( algebraically speaking ) there is no difference between growth and value - but that is another story.

As for players - maybe you need to recalibrate your thinking about what a good player is and isn't ....a good player doesn't let an opposition player rub them out of a game a good player finds a way ...and doesn't need a coach to tell him to lift - that is what integrity btw

Just stop blaming coaches for player weakness deficiency form bad luck or a bad day - just stop - it is a meaningless merry go round - absolving your favourite pet players of responsibility.

You bored on your lunch break again?
The fact u advocate writing off a player is pretty disappointing considering how we are playing & the questions about our list.

 

[norway blue]

Crazy to think I'm more apathetic about this club in 2023 than I ever was in 2002-2007 or 2015-2021. Depressing.

Hang tough mate. It’s all we can do.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[thylacine60]

J

just another way for him to cope. It's HIS club after all. Not like every club in world sport isn't the same or worse re supporter bases (mainly they're worse)... He's also liking posts calling the players out. Bit of a sneaky have it both ways if you don't mind

I sort of get you struggling to leave this place after turning your back on the club - there is endless support here for you - why wouldn't you maintain your presence? the juvenile emojis, the player mocking, the baseless recriminations - all a sign of your humanity and vulnerability which is actually a credit to you

 

[Gointocarlton]

Does it matter? Cripps learnt how to blame everyone else from the guys before him. Murphy. Gibbs.

Do you think Cripps backs coaches in? Was all in on The Teague Train. Was the first one off. Jungle drums have a similar feel now.

The culture of this club has become ‘blame everyone else’. That’s what we induct newcomers with. They learn it. Adopt it. Repeat it.

Why don’t you ever hear Cripps say “look I’m totally out of form. I need a big lift.” Always this ‘we’ s*t. ‘We’ doesn’t kick the ****** football.

Learn YOUR role. DO your role. Accept whether you’re doing your role. Stay in your ******* Lane.

“My role as Captain is to make sure each player around me has properly absorbed THEIR role. That they ACCEPT that role. That they give feedback to the line coach if they don’t think they can fulfill that role. They show personal responsibility. That if I hear they’re getting wasted on a Saturday night way too often that I step in and tell them to knock it the * off. But above all else, my role as Captain is to lead by example. And that example is playing MY role. Doing the job the coach asks of me on field. I haven’t been doing THAT but I am all out going to fix that.”

Stop hiding behind WE. If it’s meant to be then it’s up to ME.

It matters to me as I'm intrigued, can you share with me the incident you are referring to?

 

[Garters]

I didn’t read it, but I saw Ralph has already written an article in the HS of how we can get Reid, lol. Talking high end draftees to Carlton fans mid season, they know how to get clicks! Reckon we finish 10-12th this year sadly

Which is crazy finishing in no man's land. Serious change in outcome requires serious change in input. I would play all the kids, Binns, Cowen, Hollands and the blonde key forward etc, scratch all the older / injured tier. Take the hit, trade a big name and go to the draft with 3 or 4 first round picks and a second if we can get it, replacing all that older brigade we have gone past / can't get on the park or just arent up to it.
You don't want to cut too deep but there is now quite a bit to work with on the list and cutting much of the above cohort won't have a negative impact given their inability to get on the park or zero impact of those that do.
The only tricky bit is who do you move out in order to get more high end picks. Personal preference would prob be Cripps. Still has serious perceived value on the market, is 28, will not get better owing to age, out of lock step age wise with our young guns and could still find some club to hand over 2 firsts or a first and 2nd round pick.
Personally I do not rate his leadership / culture of the playing group over his tenure as Captain / leader of the playing group. That old group blooded under previous leadership void seem part of self centred legacy that still lingers and I would move on as much of as possible, not that there too much left of it. Prob is only one with serious trade value remaining and might be best for both parties looking at general body language for a while now.

 

[JustaBattler]

You bored on your lunch break again?
The fact u advocate writing off a player is pretty disappointing considering how we are playing & the questions about our list.

I want to thank you for my great round this afternoon - was thinking of your 'commentary and insight' on every tee shot mate and every long iron - 2 under par at NSW - best round in over a year!

Cheers and thanks.

 

[BlueTang]

Keep laughing at your own jokes mate - no one else is


Buffet is the world's best marketer mate, people who quote Buffett (a) arent professional investors and cant even read his own reports and (b) don't even know what his business model is but anyway ...

he is full of pithy aphorisms - my favourite one regarding organisations ( and this one is 100% spot on) is:

"...I look for three things in people (managers and employees) and they have to have all three.."

1. Intelligence
2. Enthusiasm
3. Integrity

here is the kicker from Buffett ...ready for it...??? ready???


"....If you get 1 &2 and don't have the third quality you have the worst person/employee...."

As for investing in Carlton as a stock - leaving aside the fact that it is not a for profit company, doesn't control its own market, and operates under arbitrary ever-changing constraints imposed on it by a haphazard dictatorship ( the AFL) I would see Carlton as a deep value stock with easy fixes to make it a growth stock . In fact ( algebraically speaking ) there is no difference between growth and value - but that is another story.

As for players - maybe you need to recalibrate your thinking about what a good player is and isn't ....a good player doesn't let an opposition player rub them out of a game a good player finds a way ...and doesn't need a coach to tell him to lift - that is what integrity btw

Just stop blaming coaches for player weakness deficiency form bad luck or a bad day - just stop - it is a meaningless merry go round - absolving your favourite pet players of responsibility.

I work in financial services, we have a manager that invests in growth only Australian shares with a small cap bias. Can you give an example of a value stock which has become a growth one? I haven't heard of that happening before, but I am interested to learn

 

[JustaBattler]

I work in financial services, we have a manager that invests in growth only Australian shares with a small cap bias. Can you give an example of a value stock which has become a growth one? I haven't heard of that happening before, but I am interested to learn

Growth or Value are typically summary descriptors of current "price" to whatever short hand a person wishes to use eg: P&L ( earnings) for PE Book ( Balance Sheet) for Price to Book Cash ( Cashflow statement) for Cashflow multiples - and all sorts of plays on each and or combinations of...

If your mission is to make positive return - there is no difference between buying a Deep value situation which appreciates because it is 'too cheap' OR buying a so called growth stock - because it is 'too cheap' - both relative to price target : your E(r) for example.

What you are interested in as an investor is the risk-adjusted return or expected risk-adjusted return of any unit bet.

As soon as you understand Porfolio theory 101 - the marketing/sales/differentiating nonsense gets tossed in the bin - you forget value/growth/cap/themes and other segmentation for marketing purposes 'stuff'.

eg: People cite Buffett as a guru investor- who favours 'value' stocks- and he always speaks to 'value' - however his portfolio is populated with so called 'growth stocks' eg Apple

so his definition of 'value' is pliable to include "so much growth ahead it is cheap buying today"

now ask yourself a question: if a stock is "value" does that not merely say expected return based on rational valuation > current price today? OR if a stock is 'growth' does that not merely suggest that future return > current pricing accounts for ? Either way you are making a decision about price target - which should in a rational mindset be based on valuation ( cashflow versions cleared for P&L and BS shenanigans) or if you are a trader - you play the second or third or even fourth derivative of the game...

So what is the difference - A good exercise for you might be to prove a difference with some basic algebra - good luck trying -

 

[mochacinolatte]

I think Harry Mckay

10

Harry Mckay

Age

26

Ht

200cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.9

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

2.4

2star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.4

5star

D

6.6

1star

K

4.6

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.0

5star

will be okay.

Just having a one of those down patches.

Seems like all the players having a poor stretch of form barring a few players.

 

[aristeas]

JustaBattler said "In fact ( algebraically speaking ) there is no difference between growth and value - but that is another story."

Algebraically speaking? On a footy board? Are you mad?

 

[aristeas]

The "solutions" here all boil down to two options:

1 It's the coach. So sack the coach. Again.

2 It's the players. So clear out the list. Again.

This is a club that has had the same problems and the same results for 30+ years. I know. I'm that old.

A club culture where the board has few solutions (on the evidence to date) but is more than happy to have hissy-fits and s**t-fights that delight the media and do nothing to improve things.

A "we demand instant success now" mentality that sees us dump a 5 year plan after 2 years again and again. The last few premiers show how long it takes to build a winning side/strategy. And how many bad patches you have to go through.

A club where morale collapses like a souffle after a bad few weeks. Again and again. Eventually players learn it's pointless to try in this atmosphere. They stop trusting each other and themselves. We teach talented players to lose generation after generation.

A club with mediocre standards for effort and performance. The Murphy-Gibbs years set this almost in stone. Too much "nourishment/empowerment" management speak and not enough mental toughness to come back harder after being beaten.

How about some sticking power from supporters for the players?
How about the cub acknowledging its problems, and doing something about goal-kicking for a month or two?

I groaned when I heard Voss was our new coach. but he has to be given the time to turn it around.

Better goal-kicking would solve most of our current on-field problems and put us in the hunt.

 

[out of harmes' way]

The "solutions" here all boil down to two options:

1 It's the coach. So sack the coach. Again.

2 It's the players. So clear out the list. Again.

This is a club that has had the same problems and the same results for 30+ years. I know. I'm that old.

A club culture where the board has few solutions (on the evidence to date) but is more than happy to have hissy-fits and s**t-fights that delight the media and do nothing to improve things.

A "we demand instant success now" mentality that sees us dump a 5 year plan after 2 years again and again. The last few premiers show how long it takes to build a winning side/strategy. And how many bad patches you have to go through.

A club where morale collapses like a souffle after a bad few weeks. Again and again. Eventually players learn it's pointless to try in this atmosphere. They stop trusting each other and themselves. We teach talented players to lose generation after generation.

A club with mediocre standards for effort and performance. The Murphy-Gibbs years set this almost in stone. Too much "nourishment/empowerment" management speak and not enough mental toughness to come back harder after being beaten.

How about some sticking power from supporters for the players?
How about the cub acknowledging its problems, and doing something about goal-kicking for a month or two?

I groaned when I heard Voss was our new coach. but he has to be given the time to turn it around.

Better goal-kicking would solve most of our current on-field problems and put us in the hunt.

How about the players show some sticking power in games, instead of playing in fits and spurts?
We have been demanding' instant' success for 25 years. I think that's long enough.

 

[katmanblue]

I’m not advocating a total rebuild, just renovation.

Total rebuild giving players an out for poor performances won’t work.

Gonna have to check the stumps. Reckon a few might be sinking.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JustaBattler]

JustaBattler said "In fact ( algebraically speaking ) there is no difference between growth and value - but that is another story."

Algebraically speaking? On a footy board? Are you mad?

Anything I say can and will be held against me.

 

[thebluenewdeal]

Absolute bloodbath when you really look at this game.

 

[ctwenty1]

JustaBattler said "In fact ( algebraically speaking ) there is no difference between growth and value - but that is another story."

Algebraically speaking? On a footy board? Are you mad?

Yes, we are a Fourier series board.