3 Divisions (School / Uni) and 4 Divisions (suburban / district).
- Thread starter Privateye
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Look at what is happening in the very under represented west.
Point Cook have jumped back into the WRFL but given the close proximity of clubs like Point Cook Centrals (Sanctuary Lakes), the rivalry will be intense.
Williamstown CYMS have gone very well, primarily due to the work that Bill Deller has put in. Just need to get the ground issue sorted.
Westbourne after the split are going alright and have the umpires training at their venue (with EP and issue, will there be more umpires making the trek west?).
My trick would be have a geographical set-up in terms of Divisions. The Western division would look something like this:
Williamstown CYMS
Westbourne
PEGS
St. Bernards
Therry Penola
NOBSFC
West Brunswick
North Brunswick
UHS-VU
Then possibly a team from the Albert Park Lake area.
Point Cook have jumped back into the WRFL but given the close proximity of clubs like Point Cook Centrals (Sanctuary Lakes), the rivalry will be intense.
Williamstown CYMS have gone very well, primarily due to the work that Bill Deller has put in. Just need to get the ground issue sorted.
Westbourne after the split are going alright and have the umpires training at their venue (with EP and issue, will there be more umpires making the trek west?).
My trick would be have a geographical set-up in terms of Divisions. The Western division would look something like this:
Williamstown CYMS
Westbourne
PEGS
St. Bernards
Therry Penola
NOBSFC
West Brunswick
North Brunswick
UHS-VU
Then possibly a team from the Albert Park Lake area.
- Nov 17, 2007
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Unfortunately Pazza I think you would wind up with a WRFL-like division with one team stomping the rest, three contenders, four making up the numbers and one getting a hiding every week.
HedgeFund
Premiership Player
You’ve already got three Premier B/C teams in here (St B, PEGs and Willy) so that can’t work under the current structure.
You’ve only got 6 teams who are currently Div 1 - Div 4 ranked.
The 3 lower teams in AB are all struggling
man in outer
Team Captain
Very well put. The reason the private schools old boy clubs are now in ascendency is because that is the only place football is played with any seriousness is those private schools. There is hardly state school in the land producing footballers anymore. This is a massive worry to any lover of football given state schools house 70% of the students. Please don't believe the scholarship myth (i.e. gun local footballers go from state schools to private school en masse).
Captain chaos
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It ain’t no myth . If its not state schools it’s systemuc low fee catholic schools being pillared . There are many many examples .. Dylan Shiel was at st bedes gone to scholarship. Vickery from CBC to Haileybury .. Richmond’s first pick this year de la to Caulfield ( Higgins) ... and there are many more .
Sometimes . S is the case with two boys currently at Carey, they get offered the scholarship right at the start of their schooling so you don’t realky know where they might have gone to school
Many schools actively trawl rep games etc in search of them - I know that for a fact !
Moody Blue
Premiership Player
South Districts are slowly dying and need to get some new leadership, money and get back into the SFL. There are parallels with Bentleigh. Both teams have never gotten out of D grade. Both teams joined the VAFA because of money issues. They quickly climbed through the lower Divisions, but could not attract new players and hit the D1 & D2 ceiling. Bentleigh paid off their debts and are back in SFL having played in a GF. South are just plummeting into oblivion despite the work that Peter Bedford and others have done behind the scenes. Once they get some success, they will start attracting players. If they remain in their current state then they will either fold or be forced to merge with Albert Park. If they get back to the SFL, and have some success to get back into DIV 1 or 2, there are a lot of old rivalries which they could renew.
Moody Blue
Premiership Player
Meanwhile, which sports are being pushed in State Primary/High Schools? Again soccer is setting up their base for the future. The 13-18 age group in AFL is struggling for numbers, whereas in soccer it is quite the opposite. The A-league was set back by the GFC. Now there are cashed up individuals who want to form new franchises i.e Geelong and ofcourse South Melbourne. Ironic that South Districts is hanging on for dear life, and South Melbourne soccer is going from strength to strength. Just don't tell the AFL or Football Victoria.
random observer
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Going back to SFNL would be the death of them. To compete in SFNL, you have to be able to pay players. Where would the money come from? Clubs rely on supporters to take out memberships, buy at the canteen and stick around at club functions. I dropped by late last year and the place was a ghost town - no supporters to be seen. Yes, a disastrous year might have deterred their supporters, but it has been like that for years. It is a sad situation for a once proud (and powerful) club.
I think the only way they can survive in the long term would be to merge with Albert Park (who have slightly more supporters, though 15 would be stretching it) and stay in VAFA, where they at least don't have to pay players.
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South Melbourne is the Greek ethnic soccer club. Soccer is very much organised along tribal lines. I wouldn't draw parallels just because SMD has the same name as a powerhouse suburban round-ball club.
HedgeFund
Premiership Player
Where’s the evidence to support your ambit claim?
If you’re talking the SMJFL (Southern region juniors) well last I looked there were:
4 x u15 Divisions for boys, fielding 30 teams
3 x u16 Divisions fielding 22 teams
3 x u17 Divisions fielding 20 teams.
Those numbers are still very healthy compared to historic turnout - despite the SMJFL covering the “least growth” region of Melbourne (ie. it’s boundaries are well and truly inner/Bayside, and don’t encompass any potential new suburbs where young families are sprouting up).
This thinning out at u16/17 can be easily explained with the private schools (Caulfield, Brighton, Haileybury, Mentone, etc.) requiring their 1st/2nd XVIII eligible players to not play local junior football beyond u15s.
So those kids are still playing football, just only on Saturdays rather than backing up on Sundays (as many of us would do as young teenagers). Many of the kids playing Sundays also play during the week (on Wednesdays) in their Ass. Catholics or Ass. Co-educational School competitions.
Frankly I don’t agree with your statement at all, unless you can prove it with some concrete data, it’s simply over-hyped speculation.
While I reckon SMDFC would be a good fit for the SFNL there issues have nothing to do with what league they play in. It is more about the fact that a high % of kids in that area attend Wesley, Caulfield Grammar, Melbourne Grammar, Brighton Grammar, St Kevins etc when previous generations attended South Melbourne Tech or Hobsons Bay High School (or whatever it’s called these days). Having 5 clubs occupying the same a tract of land (which is not even a suburb) can’t help either.
South Melbourne Soccer club does not necessarily draw from the local area but rather from those of Greek Heritage. A Croatian kid from South Melbourne is more likely to cross the Westgate and play for the Knights so the strength of the soccer club has less of an impact than the private school factor.
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"more likely" hah! Understatement of the year!
(so far)
(so far)
HedgeFund
Premiership Player
From South Melbourne through to Brighton the demographic of those suburbs (Albert Park, Middle Park, St Kilda West, St Kilda and Elwood) has changed completely in the last 30 years. Kids who grew up in those suburbs can’t afford to move around the corner and raise a family. They have to live 15-20km away. So there’s far fewer young people living in these blue chip Bayside suburbs (where you struggle to get a decent house for less than $2 million).
Whereas in the 1970s and 80s there were far more working class residents, and plenty of teenagers running around, the cashed up baby boomers are now downsizing and retiring to these suburbs.
As for soccer - give me a spell. There’s one decent soccer pitch at Murphy Reserve in Port Melbourne, and obviously Sth Melbourne are a semi professional outfit based at Lakeside Oval. Other than that, there’s bugger all facilities for junior soccer to offer an alternative anyhow!!!
- Jan 12, 2013
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Losing kids aged between 15 and 17 has nothing to do with the catholic system but is a systematic problem across all leagues and is starting to have effects in senior footy with lack of numbers . SFL 3 senior div and 1 div of u18/19 NFL 3 senior3 div and 2 div u/18/19 WRFL 3 senior div and 1 div of u18/19 EDFL 3 senior div and 2 div u18/19 EFL senior div and 4 div u18/19 VAFA 7 senior div and 4 div u18/19. And Hearing weekly that sides in the lower division's of some leagues are struggling to field reserves each week Suburban AFL footy is in trouble an the afl and al vic have their head up the clackers about it and don't think its a probelm
HedgeFund
Premiership Player
This is hardly something new though. Compared to 15-20 years ago, it’s actually an improvement.
There are plenty of lower grade clubs that play 16 or 17 year olds in the seniors. Happens in the bush all the time, and has done so for generations.
If suburban leagues had as many u18-19 sides as seniors/divisions in the 1990s or 2000s, then it would be a problem now. That’s never been the case though.
Remember, u18/19s only covers 2-3 years of playing ages, and seniors reserves covers up to 20 years. If anything, having leagues with more u18/19s would suggest a massive drop off at age 20 (which isn’t occurring).
How is suburban footy in trouble when the EFL announced it just expanded to 5 divisions, EDFL is very solid, SFL now has 3 properly constructed grades, NFL has recently added teams (Kilmore/Laurimar) from further north....only the WRFL is still a bit of a mess?
The VAFA operated 6 x u19 divisions last season. That’s a record too as far as I’m aware. They also fielded 5 grades of women’s teams starting from scratch (with barely 2 months’ lead in).
If you’re worried about the suburban under age footballers, maybe the geographical leagues need to sit down with the VAFA and work out how/why they can get the same level of involvement at that age group as the VAFA does. I’m thinking getting girls involved at 18-19 years of age in your women’s team will assist enormously too. Make your football club more inclusive and open to both genders is the key.
Why is the VAFA continually growing? I’m tipping club/league culture has a big part to play, not money or resources flowing through from AFL Victoria.
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I think you missed the point the drop off rate from under 15 to 19 in the men's football is unprecedented in recent times due to outside distractions from other sports and activities. The VAFA has not been immune to this problem either look at the teams that have dropped out of d4 to go back to the clubbies due to lack of success and numbers to field two teams on a Saturday e.g. Chadstone, South Mornington and St Francis Xavier and Masala,to name a few though the last two are back in d4 .The growth of women's football is fantastic and what the women and girls bring to a footy club can not be understated . But this also brings a whole new set of problems with club change room suitability's ground availability and ground over use. The AFL use the increase in women's numbers to gloss over the lack of young men staying in the game. The football communities can no longer stick is collective head in the sand and say everything is rosy .
HedgeFund
Premiership Player
I’m sorry, but you said there was a drop off of 15-19 year olds - where’s your evidence?
The SMJFL u15 - u17 figures and the VAFA u19 figures I provided suggest otherwise. My understanding is the YJFL and EFL are also still growing at junior level.
They’re all stronger than they were 15-20 years ago.
You are using D4 clubs dropping back to Club XVIII to argue that 15-19 year olds are leaving football. The clubs you have cited are playing a pretty low standard of footy and competing to attract players who otherwise may choose to play for clubs elsewhere in the SFL, MPNFL and SENFL which basically surround each of those clubs.
I don’t think players are leaving footy, they’re just leaving footy clubs who aren’t succeeding, and going elsewhere.
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I have been involved at junior level in the nfl and edfl at that level and I have friends who are still coaching at under 18/19 level and all of them are saying there is a lack of numbers .Plus it does not take to much investigation to see the drop off at that level when you start too look at the amount of under 14 sides then the number of under 15 to 17 . The junior team I coached at had 22 junior teams most grades up to under 4 had sides per year up to under 13 then could only manage 2 x under 15 teams and 1 under 17 team so I have seen it first hand and talked to other coaches at the other clubs after game and all of them bar one or two had the same problem. Sorry I don't have figures but I have first hand knowledge if that's not good enough for you then that's ok but as I have said if we all bury our heads and think everything is going great guns then we will all be in for a rude shock in about 10 years
HedgeFund
Premiership Player
My point remains - this is nothing new. Its been like this for 20+ years and the sky continues to hang safely above our heads.
I played in an u19 side that struggled for numbers, but 3 years later, after it went into recess for a year, it returned and fielded a squad of 25-30 committed players and won a flag.
It’s not that uncommon to have a lull, but clubs need to put their heads down, work hard and turn things around.
Absolutely nothing new. The club i played for so many years ago, couldn't field an u18/17 for two seasons, then had two when i played. All junior sports drop off at that age due to school and social pressures. My neighbor's son plays in the NFL u17 and pretty sure they played both South Morang and Laurimar who i dont think existed when i was playing. His daughter's basketball club had two U18 girls sides. She played in the 15s or something ridiculous when she was in u12
Nobody is burying their heads. Unders, girls, you name it. Rosy skies ahead LFF.
