Preview Changes: R6 2021 v Hawthorn in Tasmania

[Golumless]

I've been hoping for this for two weeks after the GC game, but I've given up.
Nicks sees things in Frampton's consistent ineptitude that have escaped my attention, yours and others'.
Nicks is the Coach, not us; it's his job on the line, but he'll lose a lot of supporter confidence if he continues to back Frampton in. These issues:
--- re-selecting underperforming players
--- insistence upon "continuity" over selecting to improve the side and blood rookies, and
--- playing injured senior players
will result in Nicks taking the Crows no further than mid-table mediocrity while he is Coach.

I can certainly accept an argument that Frampton deserved a block of 4 games to see if could make it after a good preseason and the Geelong game. In the end of the day, you do need to stick fat with underperforming players for a while to see if they work it out. Faith can be a good thing.

It's a good test for Nicks. He's given Frampton time to work it out, and it hasn't happened. He now has the answer about if Billy has a role in our future and it's a firm no. Now it's time to cut him adrift and move on. You can always critique he could have been more ruthless, but if there are things in Billy's game Nick's values, then I can at least understand the longer leash.

It was a stupid decision to play injured players. I mean I get players are banged up from week 1 onwards, but you need to see the woods from the trees here. You need a player like Lynch down the stretch, don't ruin him here. It's another test.

 

[hey shorty]

On Jones, we let Knight go (admittedly son's fave player) who at least would have equaled him in the afl last few games they played stats wise, would have smashed him km wise (providing defensive cover if not having ball). Now Knight is smashing it in SANFL, while sure it's 'only' SANFL but his 34 possies and 2 goals is a fair bit better than Jones' 5?? Reckon it's time to stop thinking of Chayce as a Pick 9 and start thinking of him as someone who's barely competitive at SANFL level.

Knight wasn't worth persisting with, I wish people would stop thinking of him as an AFL standard player.

 

[Golumless]

Knight wasn't worth persisting with, I wish people would stop thinking of him as an AFL standard player.

Had the potential to be, however injuries really ruined a lot of the early momentum he generated. A shame but them the breaks.

Gave a window for a similar player in Murphy to overtake him, and the near permanent lesson in sport is you never let anyone have the chance to overtake you.

 

[HarryCrow]

Knight wasn't worth persisting with, I wish people would stop thinking of him as an AFL standard player.

Then Jones...???

 

[Vader]

Knight wasn't worth persisting with, I wish people would stop thinking of him as an AFL standard player.

I think the point wasn't that we should have persisted with Knight. I think it's that we (rightly) let Knight go, because he's not AFL standard, yet he is/was performing significantly better than Jones. Ergo, we should be letting Jones go too, as another player who is not AFL standard.

The worrying thing is that Jones is contracted for 2 more years. The good news is that Adelaide has more flexibility in its salary cap this year, and could (maybe) be able to pay him out this year. Our salary cap this year is a lot more flexible than it was last year, when we were forced to keep Gibbs as we couldn't include his 2021 salary under the 2020 cap.

 

[hey shorty]

Then Jones...???

Right now Jones is worth about as much.

 

[hey shorty]

Had the potential to be, however injuries really ruined a lot of the early momentum he generated. A shame but them the breaks.

Gave a window for a similar player in Murphy to overtake him, and the near permanent lesson in sport is you never let anyone have the chance to overtake you.

Ala Berry and Jones right now

 

[Murray2503]

If only it was Frampton that got busted with drugs

He would fumble the drugs on the ground.

 

[1970crow]

Had the potential to be, however injuries really ruined a lot of the early momentum he generated. A shame but them the breaks.

Gave a window for a similar player in Murphy to overtake him, and the near permanent lesson in sport is you never let anyone have the chance to overtake you.

watching Lynch on the weekend is testament to that mindset.

 

[relapse]

Shame this guy wasn't sitting on our list as an option to bring into our midfield.......

New recruit Jordan Gallucci caused plenty of headaches for the Bullants, kicking three goals from 22 touches. Young defenders Charlie Dean and Jack Toner were also solid on debut.

 

[Bearded Clam]

I can certainly accept an argument that Frampton deserved a block of 4 games to see if could make it after a good preseason and the Geelong game. In the end of the day, you do need to stick fat with under performing players for a while to see if they work it out. Faith can be a good thing.

It's a good test for Nick's. He's given Frampton time to work it out, and it hasn't happened. He now has the answer about if Billy has an role in our future and it's a firm no. Now it's time to cut him adrift and move on. You can always critique he could have been more ruthless, but if there are things in Billy's game Nick's values, then I can at least understand the longer leash.

The injured players was just stupid. I mean I get players are banged up from week 1 onwards, but you need to see the woods from the trees here. You need a player like Lynch down the stretch, don't ruin him here. It's another test.

Nup... billy probably shouldve been dumped last week.. maybe even the week before that, before the North game IMO.

the dilemma being the two lads who could idealy come in to replace him in the tall forward/chop out ruck role have been in poor form/fitness and have shown nothing even at SANFL level... so Frampton has stayed in the side. If one of those two had shown more than they have so far this season I think billy wouldve been omited by now.

In recent weeks I have been on the wagon that says Riley Thilthorpe should stay in the sanfl until he builds his form and fitness to 100%.. I’ve since moved onto the “**** it, he oozes talent, lets just play the kid” wagon.

So....
frampton out, RT in... himmelberg stays in the sanfl until he puts 3-4 decent games in a row together... and I am more inclined to now believe neither frampton or himmelberg are anything worth investing time and effort in as they simply arent worth it. They might be AFL standard players (just) but they are nowhere near AFL finals standard players and I dont think they’d make it onto/or hold their spots in the comps better teams.

 

[Golumless]

watching Lynch on the weekend is testament to that mindset.

It is, however, if a coach expects a player to make a proper judgement call on their health, the coach is a fool. After all, not many can afford the risk of missing games (and that's before match payments come into play, where sitting out could cost a fair bit of money).

 

[Thetrader15]

I think the point wasn't that we should have persisted with Knight. I think it's that we (rightly) let Knight go, because he's not AFL standard, yet he is/was performing significantly better than Jones. Ergo, we should be letting Jones go too, as another player who is not AFL standard.

The worrying thing is that Jones is contracted for 2 more years. The good news is that Adelaide has more flexibility in its salary cap this year, and could (maybe) be able to pay him out this year. Our salary cap this year is a lot more flexible than it was last year, when we were forced to keep Gibbs as we couldn't include his 2021 salary under the 2020 cap.

Good news is Jones is only 21, came in as a very skinny kid and his first foray to the club was the GC camp. From here, he had Don's one week in, one week out approach, then 2020 a new senior coach, direct line coaches in Hart and Godden and now is back to SANFL with half a team of top ups getting smashed.

He needs to do more, it's only this year any of our skinny kids from that draft are starting to hit their straps.

Give the kid another year or two before we say he's no good, but he needs to start getting more of the ball for sure, especially at SANFL level.

 

[Thetrader15]

Nup... billy probably shouldve been dumped last week.. maybe even the week before that, before the North game IMO.

the dilemma being the two lads who could idealy come in to replace him in the tall forward/chop out ruck role have been in poor form/fitness and have shown nothing even at SANFL level... so Frampton has stayed in the side. If one of those two had shown more than they have so far this season I think billy wouldve been omited by now.

In recent weeks I have been on the wagon that says Riley Thilthorpe should stay in the sanfl until he builds his form and fitness to 100%.. I’ve since moved onto the “fu** it, he oozes talent, lets just play the kid” wagon.

So....
frampton out, RT in... himmelberg stays in the sanfl until he puts 3-4 decent games in a row together... and I am more inclined to now believe neither frampton or himmelberg are anything worth investing time and effort in as they simply arent worth it. They might be AFL standard players (just) but they are nowhere near AFL finals standard players and I dont think they’d make it onto/or hold their spots in the comps better teams.

Berg's showed enough IMO to say he can be a decent player at AFL level. He won't be Wayne Carey, but I think he can make it with time and games and reach the Sam Reid level.

Billy on the otherhand...I think he's a ruck trying to make it as a forward.

 

[Thetrader15]

It is, however, if a coach expects a player to make a proper judgement call on their health, the coach is a fool. After all, not many can afford the risk of missing games (and that's before match payments come into play, where sitting out could cost a fair bit of money).

Are match payments still a thing?

 

[Golumless]

Are match payments still a thing?

I assume so, they're decently common in other sports.

 

[Vader]

Good news is Jones is only 21, came in as a very skinny kid and his first foray to the club was the GC camp. From here, he had Don's one week in, one week out approach, then 2020 a new senior coach, direct line coaches in Hart and Godden and now is back to SANFL with half a team of top ups getting smashed.

He needs to do more, it's only this year any of our skinny kids from that draft are starting to hit their straps.

Give the kid another year or two before we say he's no good, but he needs to start getting more of the ball for sure, especially at SANFL level.

I don't think his problems are physical. I think his problems are mental.

I think the talent is there, but for whatever reason, he's mentally shot and lacks the confidence to make use of his talents. I think/hope/believe that the club is working with him, trying to get him back to where he was before he was drafted.

At some point though, they're going to have to make a decision, because Jones' current situation is completely untenable.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I don't think his problems are physical. I think his problems are mental.

I think the talent is there, but for whatever reason, he's mentally shot and lacks the confidence to make use of his talents. I think/hope/believe that the club is working with him, trying to get him back to where he was before he was drafted.

At some point though, they're going to have to make a decision, because Jones' current situation is completely untenable.

Should we just tell Jones to follow Mitchell around this weekend, but hunt the ball, rather than being a hard tag?

Mitchell would take him to the ball...

 

[Vader]

Should we just tell Jones to follow Mitchell around this weekend, but hunt the ball, rather than being a hard tag?

Mitchell would take him to the ball...

I don't think that would help. He needs to believe in himself again. Following another player around the field, watching them pick up disposals at will, while getting none (or few) of his own, isn't going to solve his problems.

 

[Thetrader15]

I don't think his problems are physical. I think his problems are mental.

I think the talent is there, but for whatever reason, he's mentally shot and lacks the confidence to make use of his talents. I think/hope/believe that the club is working with him, trying to get him back to where he was before he was drafted.

At some point though, they're going to have to make a decision, because Jones' current situation is completely untenable.

His position is as 'untenable' as Himmelberg, Davis, Gollant, McAsey, ROC, and Thilthorpe.

None of these guys have shown anything at SANFL level, yet here we are talking about one of them in contract.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I don't think that would help. He needs to believe in himself again. Following another player around the field, watching them pick up disposals at will, while getting none (or few) of his own, isn't going to solve his problems.

I'm saying if he plays on a natural ball hunter like Mitchell, he will get taken to the contest & hopefully learn more about where to position himself. This strategy has been used successfully with other players in the past.

Clearly the current approach is not working!

 

[Vader]

I'm saying if he plays on a natural ball hunter like Mitchell, he will get taken to the contest & hopefully learn more about where to position himself. This strategy has been used successfully with other players in the past.

Clearly the current approach is not working!

I don't think his problem is not knowing where to go, or how to position himself. I think it's 100% mental. He just lacks confidence.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I don't think his problem is not knowing where to go, or how to position himself. I think it's 100% mental. He just lacks confidence.

So what is your solution then... because the current approach is not working!

 

[Thetrader15]

I don't think his problem is not knowing where to go, or how to position himself. I think it's 100% mental. He just lacks confidence.

Agree. A run off HB wouldn't be a bad idea, get a few cheap kicks on the way out and get some confidence from a 20 touch game. Tell his team mates to give him the ball on the way out.

When I was playing if a first gamer came in, the instruction was to give them the ball. Get them a kick and make them comfortable at the level.

 

[Vader]

His position is as 'untenable' as Himmelberg, Davis, Gollant, McAsey, ROC, and Thilthorpe.

None of these guys have shown anything at SANFL level, yet here we are talking about one of them in contract.

You're really reaching here.

Gollant & O'Connor are 2nd year youngsters, with their 1st year having been wiped out by COVID. McAsey is a 2nd year KPP, and we all know they take longer to develop. Thilthorpe is a 1st year KPP. You couldn't make this crap up if you tried.

Himmelberg showed a lot in the 2nd half of 2020, but he obviously had a poor pre-season (and it started long before those games vs Port). He needs to pull his finger out, but untenable?

Davis is already on the chopping block for the end of the year. He, and Mackay, will be the first two names announced when the delistings are released.