List Mgmt. Contracts. Trades. Draft. 2021 Edition

[Keys]

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The Contracts Thread

Updated (20/3/24) the status of all contracts for people’s reference : Overall List - 44 Players : Main List(37), Rookie List(5), Cat B(2) Contracted until the end of 2027 (2) : Tom Barrass (8/10/95) - Signed a 5 year extension (2023,2024,2025,2026,2027) on an existing contract set to...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Tugga27]

From afl site article in regards to bulldogs looks for a key back this trade period

'Versatile West Coast tall Jarrod Brander, who was on the trade table last year, is out of contract at the end of this season'

News to me

Unless he recently signed a new extension, it seems right.

Jarrod Brander | AFL

Follow Jarrod Brander's progress through AFL

www.westcoasteagles.com.au

 

[Obeanie1]

No one can deny our midfield stocks are thin and we haven't draft a top 22 pure midfielder since Dom Sheed however we have done incredibly well in adding some top 22 talent over recent years with second and third round picks. Going back 5 years of drafts which is roughly the window players seem to develop together. Considering what we've had to work with i think we have done incredibly well. KPP are bloody hard to get right and time and time again we nail them and as others have mentioned above it's far easier to trade for midfielders than it is for genuine tall talent due to a larger pool to work from.

For a bit of fun i've decided to have a good look at who we have drafted in the last five years and how they stack up thus far. I've broken them down into five tiers.

I've given Venables a break here as he was progressing nicely until his serious injury and if he can get pack on the pack i still think he can make it.

Tim Kelly and Alex Witherden were also from these drafts, I'll put them in but won't grade them as then i'd have to include Hickey as well and then the trading down and up of all the draft picks.

I haven't taken into account the rookie draft as that is a last ditch attempt to turn coal into a diamond but i will note that Edwards and Trew are showing promise.



(A) for starting 22-25/ will make it
(B) for developing nicely
(C) for on the fringe of being delisted or needing to show more
(D) for too early to tell
(F) for delisted

2016 Draft

(1st) 13. Daniel Venables (N/A)
(2nd) 23. Alex Witherden TRADED FOR
(2nd) 37. Josh Rotham (A)
(3rd) 52. Willie Rioli (A)
(6th) 77. Jake Waterman (A)

2017 Draft

(1st) 13. Jarrod Brander (B)
(2nd) 21. Oscar Allen (A)
(2nd) 24. Tim Kelly TRADED FOR
(2nd) 26. Liam Ryan (A)
(2nd) 32. Brayden Ainsworth (C)
(3rd) 38. Jack Petrucelle (B)
(4th) 56. Zac Langdon (C)
(4th) 68. Hamish Brayshaw (F)

2018 Draft

(2nd) 28. Xavier O'Neill (B)
(2nd) 31. Luke Foley (C)
(2nd) 35. Bailey Williams (B)
(2nd) 39. Jarrod Cameron (B)

2019 Draft

(3rd) 49. Callum Jamieson (D)
(4th ) 58. Ben Johnson (D)

2020 Draft

(4th) 52. Luke Edwards (D)
(4th) 57. Isiah Winder (D)


So that's

5 (A) players with three second round picks, one third round and a sixth round pick. 29.41 Percent of the picks above
5 (B) players with only one first round pick, three second round picks and one third round pick. 29.41 Percent of the picks above
2 (C) players with both being second round picks 11.64 Percent of the picks above
4 (D) players from last two drafts with one being a third round pick and three fourth round picks. 23.52 Percent of the picks above
1 (F) player who was a fourth round pick. 5.88 Percent of the picks above



Overall that's pretty damn impressive with what picks we had to work with. Yes we are sorely lacking midfield depth but i can't fault the draft team too much for their overall work over the past five years. We're going to miss players and not get every pick right but they've nailed a hell of a lot more than they've missed and with later picks to boot.


I'm glad we loaded up on this years draft. With a first rounder, two seconds and Sydneys third i am confident the guys can find another two/three players to add to this list.

Bit harsh on Foley but pretty well spot on otherwise.

Foley should be a B IMO.

 

[Steel Eagles]

Kelly 2016 was nowhere near the quality of Kelly 2017 & even he admits that. No-one - even Kelly - thought he would get to the levels he has. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

There is recognition within WC recruiting ranks that the midfield needs attention - WC's end of season 2020 is strong indication of that. However it's generally always easier & cheaper to bring in mids than an equivalent quality tall.

Having midfield depth is important but no more important than having key position depth. On the flip-side having too much depth in an area creates its own set of problems - ask GWS.

A fit Shuey & Yeo in the team would mean someone doesn't play like a Redden or a Sheed which means those quality of players usually look elsewhere.

Firstly, love reading your posts on this forum - amazing insight, great hearing your explanations & viewpoints

Just on this regarding Kelly, his form towards the end of the 2016 season was very good as mentioned in this article :-

The one that got away: Who Eagles, Dockers drafted before Cats pounced on Kelly

He was right under their noses the whole time. Yet it was left to Geelong to pluck him from the WAFL

www.afl.com.au

He starred as the Dogs returned to the finals in 2016, averaging 20.3 possessions from his 20 games, as well as 4.3 tackles, and had a brilliant September.

Kelly racked up 25 disposals per game in three finals, which included his 20 touches, seven tackles and a goal against Fremantle's host club Peel, and a team that included then-Dockers Nick Suban, Matt de Boer, Connor Blakely, Ed Langdon, Harley Balic and Josh DeLuca in the midfield.

I saw him play in that finals series & it was very evident watching him that he had AFL quality traits.

Tom Gorter as Monocle mentioned was such a bizarre rookie choice with the abundance of backs we already had on the list especially in comparison to the amount of young mids.

My recollection was that it was between Gorter & Kelly who we took with that rookie pick, I personally thought it was a no brainer having seen the 2 play live & given the balance of the list so was very surprised when they went with Gorter.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing & can't expect to always make the right call but it was a strange decision. Our track record shows that we nearly always make the correct/ calculated decision hence why we have been such a successful club for such a long time. I can't help but think what might have been had we made the right call on Kelly as a rookie pick thus keeping all those drafts which would of allowed us to get the likes of Deven Robertson (who unexpectedly slid, I have no doubt we would of taken given Darren Glass is his uncle & was the list manager at the time) & Trent Rivers in the 2019 draft along with Jack Carroll in last year's draft (Carlton got a bargain) so our list would of been in excellent shape going forward with the quality of youngsters coming through.

The rest of our list is in very good shape, the drafting/recruiting staff have done very well - I just hope we can pick some high quality mids with our 3 high draft picks in this year's draft.
If Matthew Johnson somehow slid to our first pick & we took him it would be absolutely amazing. Terrific prospect/ great size but unfortunately I expect he will go inside the first 10 picks so it would be a miracle.... unless he does a Jack Darling in the tent just before the draft

 

[RanaNaved]

Ned Long is a similar player to Matt Johnson, though physically more advanced. Also a forward threat.

If Johnson were to be taken before the 1st WC pick Long may still be there.

Having said that, there's also a chance Long pushes ahead of Johnson too.

 

[squashface]

Long Johnson, eh?

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Bit harsh on Foley but pretty well spot on otherwise.

Foley should be a B IMO.

Why would you call him B?

AFL Facts:
Foley will be 22 this year and has played 1 AFL game. In that game against lowly Norf at the back end of 2020, he looked out of place. Deer in the headlights and missed the pace of the game. 3 kicks, 2 marks and 1 tackle. Hardly developing nicely!

The good news - I hear he is doing well in the WAFL. Great to hear and I hope to see him given another crack at AFL but the body of evidence at AFL is that he is not there but some nice WAFL recent developments.

Remember - Foley is the same draft age as Brander and Oscar. And we usually allow talls a bit more time to develop!

 

[DanWCE]

Our backline has been stacked, and they're all very durable. Foley is showing signs he might make it, but he'll just have to wait for opportunity.

 

[Chris_6678]

Why would you call him B?

AFL Facts:
Foley will be 22 this year and has played 1 AFL game. In that game against lowly Norf at the back end of 2020, he looked out of place. Deer in the headlights and missed the pace of the game. 3 kicks, 2 marks and 1 tackle. Hardly developing nicely!

The good news - I hear he is doing well in the WAFL. Great to hear and I hope to see him given another crack at AFL but the body of evidence at AFL is that he is not there but some nice WAFL recent developments.

Remember - Foley is the same draft age as Brander and Oscar. And we usually allow talls a bit more time to develop!

Foley is tracking like Rotham if you ask me.

Rotham took till his 3rd year to get a game. Foley got his first game in his second year and no doubt this year he will get a game at some point.

 

[Obeanie1]

Why would you call him B?

AFL Facts:
Foley will be 22 this year and has played 1 AFL game. In that game against lowly Norf at the back end of 2020, he looked out of place. Deer in the headlights and missed the pace of the game. 3 kicks, 2 marks and 1 tackle. Hardly developing nicely!

The good news - I hear he is doing well in the WAFL. Great to hear and I hope to see him given another crack at AFL but the body of evidence at AFL is that he is not there but some nice WAFL recent developments.

Remember - Foley is the same draft age as Brander and Oscar. And we usually allow talls a bit more time to develop!

Because this is only his 3rd season on an AFL list and this season he is playing very good WAFL games and almost banging down the door at selection.

Foley is developing at a reasonable rate and putting up decent performances in the magoos.

 

[Chris_6678]

Last year was a right off for development so a player like Foley pretty much missed a year and was thrown into a game as we had mass injuries. Those stilly hub scratch matches v other teams was pointless as it was bruise free.

Just thinking , when we returned home what did the reserves players do? Because i dont think we played the Hawks, Geelong, Calrton ect when they were over?

 

[RanaNaved]

They did have scratchies with the Hawks and Blues

 

[RanaNaved]

Last year was a right off for development so a player like Foley pretty much missed a year and was thrown into a game as we had mass injuries. Those stilly hub scratch matches v other teams was pointless as it was bruise free.

Just thinking , when we returned home what did the reserves players do? Because i dont think we played the Hawks, Geelong, Calrton ect when they were over?

From memory that game was also really wet (surprise surprise) and we were struggling. Not surprising he didn't play that well. Not many others did either.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

I am not bagging Foley - just supporting that he is not yet shown he is a keeper as ThePuma #9 put up in the post.

Who would call a player turning 22 having played 1 poor AFL game a keeper? If you need to make apologies for his one and only game, surely that says this is his year to prove himself.

He has a track record of being a slow developer. He was overlooked in his draft year. He then got dispensation to play as an overage Colt the year we drafted him. During that year, he failed to break into the Subiaco reserves or league team. WAFL clubs normally like to give their draft hopefuls a chance to play at the next level. Apart from his running endurance and uncontested kicking, he had not shown other standout AFL traits in the carnival.

It is now over to Foley to show enough at training and WAFL to bang down the door at selection and get some games this year. I've not been to training this year but sounds like he is doing well. The good news is that his WAFL form based on 3 games is starting to get to the right level. A good start. I am sure there will be a chance (maybe even this weekend given Rotham and Cole bashed heads) and he needs to take it. He is 1 year younger than Witherden so it is all to play for and no excuses

Given our depth with half back flankers, WAFL only form and no AFL games this year may well see him delisted given the strength of this year's draft.

He is in the correct category of " (C) on the fringe of being delisted or needing to show more "

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

If Foley's not a C then no one's a C and we have the best depth in the competition.

 

[Avalor]

Unless he recently signed a new extension, it seems right.

Jarrod Brander | AFL

Follow Jarrod Brander's progress through AFL

www.westcoasteagles.com.au

Was never on the table anyway. Clubs inquired, but we swiftly said, 'Rack off! '

 

[BOND 007]

Firstly, love reading your posts on this forum - amazing insight, great hearing your explanations & viewpoints

Just on this regarding Kelly, his form towards the end of the 2016 season was very good as mentioned in this article :-

The one that got away: Who Eagles, Dockers drafted before Cats pounced on Kelly

He was right under their noses the whole time. Yet it was left to Geelong to pluck him from the WAFL

www.afl.com.au

He starred as the Dogs returned to the finals in 2016, averaging 20.3 possessions from his 20 games, as well as 4.3 tackles, and had a brilliant September.

Kelly racked up 25 disposals per game in three finals, which included his 20 touches, seven tackles and a goal against Fremantle's host club Peel, and a team that included then-Dockers Nick Suban, Matt de Boer, Connor Blakely, Ed Langdon, Harley Balic and Josh DeLuca in the midfield.

I saw him play in that finals series & it was very evident watching him that he had AFL quality traits.

Tom Gorter as Monocle mentioned was such a bizarre rookie choice with the abundance of backs we already had on the list especially in comparison to the amount of young mids.

My recollection was that it was between Gorter & Kelly who we took with that rookie pick, I personally thought it was a no brainer having seen the 2 play live & given the balance of the list so was very surprised when they went with Gorter.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing & can't expect to always make the right call but it was a strange decision. Our track record shows that we nearly always make the correct/ calculated decision hence why we have been such a successful club for such a long time. I can't help but think what might have been had we made the right call on Kelly as a rookie pick thus keeping all those drafts which would of allowed us to get the likes of Deven Robertson (who unexpectedly slid, I have no doubt we would of taken given Darren Glass is his uncle & was the list manager at the time) & Trent Rivers in the 2019 draft along with Jack Carroll in last year's draft (Carlton got a bargain) so our list would of been in excellent shape going forward with the quality of youngsters coming through.

The rest of our list is in very good shape, the drafting/recruiting staff have done very well - I just hope we can pick some high quality mids with our 3 high draft picks in this year's draft.
If Matthew Johnson somehow slid to our first pick & we took him it would be absolutely amazing. Terrific prospect/ great size but unfortunately I expect he will go inside the first 10 picks so it would be a miracle.... unless he does a Jack Darling in the tent just before the draft

Pretty good assessment- lots of sliding doors involved. If Kelly had been selected AND played 2017 then perhaps Brander &/or Allen &/or Ryan might be wearing other colours. Anyway great theoretical discussion point.

As to MJ - this is a kid I know really well. Coming off a quad injury so played 1st match last weekend. In Geelong this weekend but not quite fit so expectations shouldn't be high.
Has good awareness in traffic & unlike some at this level he actually looks to bring teamates into play via handball rather than seeking kick stats.
Rated top 10 at start of season but it's a long season and plenty of things happen. Would take a bad injury to drop out of 1st round.

 

[RanaNaved]

Good to see more mids stepping up, increasing the depth in this position for the draft.

Finn Callaghan, Connor Macdonald and Hugh Jackson are playing very well.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Kelly 2016 was nowhere near the quality of Kelly 2017 & even he admits that. No-one - even Kelly - thought he would get to the levels he has. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I recall ROYAL EAGLE and Monocle both posting on Kelly in 2016 as worth a punt. I checked my notes and he was put out as someone worth taking a risk with in 2016. Kelly was averaging 25 possessions a game and kicking goals. He was predominantly an outside mid with some time inside but given South's strength with inside mids, they needed the polish. Due to parent commitments watching my daughter play netball, I only got to watch him play live twice that year and made notes that he had AFL traits. Monocle knows my aversion to outside mids compared to inside or balanced mids and I went back to my notes and agreed that he was a balanced mid not just outside.

I also had notes on Kelly that highlighted he stepped it up in the finals and from about middle of the year, clubs started tagging him. There were enough other strong South Fremantle options that oppo coaches saw Kelly as a threat. I recall he blitzed it in one of the finals. Again - a sign that by season end they are coping with attention and coping with pressure.

So was 2017 a better version of Kelly compared to 2016? Absolutely yes.

Did I see the ceiling as high as it is for Kelly? No but I thought he was a better prospect than a few on our list.

Was it just hindsight trading? No. Some of regular WAFL watchers were vocal as to Kelly being a talent in 2016. I recall an exchange with Keys when we drafted Gorter. I raised the issue of Schloithe or Kelly as better options despite the bias I have with Gorter's old college. I expressed to Keys when we caught up at Wembley to watch training how disappointed I was with Gorter.

Enough - I've had my rant. Let me say that our list team seem to want different attributes from midfielders than I do. They get paid for it while I am just a fan!

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Pretty good assessment- lots of sliding doors involved. If Kelly had been selected AND played 2017 then perhaps Brander &/or Allen &/or Ryan might be wearing other colours. Anyway great theoretical discussion point.

As to MJ - this is a kid I know really well. Coming off a quad injury so played 1st match last weekend. In Geelong this weekend but not quite fit so expectations shouldn't be high.
Has good awareness in traffic & unlike some at this level he actually looks to bring teamates into play via handball rather than seeking kick stats.
Rated top 10 at start of season but it's a long season and plenty of things happen. Would take a bad injury to drop out of 1st round.

BOND 007 - I would be very happy if the first job as List Manager Rohan calls out Johnson's name. As you say, things can happen. I think we might finally be in agreement on a midfielder that should be there at our pick. If not, 2021 draft is the year to replenish our midfield strength and I expect depth through to the end of R2.

BTW - crappy draft hand in 2020 but the 3 you got were great picks. I would have liked to see Jack Carrol on out list instead of Carlton. Would only have happened if we sold a future second and I heard we tried, just not successful. Unlike the Victorian sides, WA have to more heavily prioritise needs at the draft as the ability to draft best available and trade for needs only works if there is a fluid trade mechanism and there isn't for WA clubs.

 

[Chris_6678]

Are there many mids this year?

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Unless he recently signed a new extension, it seems right.

Jarrod Brander | AFL

Follow Jarrod Brander's progress through AFL

www.westcoasteagles.com.au

Brander was on the trade table last year ? Pretty sure he wasn't

 

[RanaNaved]

Are there many mids this year?

In the draft?

 

[Chris_6678]

In the draft?

Yep sorry should have mentioned the draft.

What is our draft hand this year? I cant seem to find it.

 

[RanaNaved]

Josh Sinn - Sandringham
Matt Roberts - South Adelaide
Finn Callaghan - Sandringham
Arlo Draper - South Adelaide
Cooper Murley - Norwood
Hugh Jackson - North Adelaide
Connor Macdonald - Dandenong
Ben Hobbs - Greater Western Victoria
Ned Long - Northern Knights
Josh Browne - East Freo
Matt Johnson - Subi
Neil Erasmus - Subi
Tyler Sonsie - Eastern Ranges
Josh Rachele - Murray Bushrangers
Braden Andrews - Oakleigh
Kade Dittmar - East Perth

 

[RanaNaved]

There's a decent handful off the top of my head.