Covid thread, no other politics

[Apsaalooke]

Yes, technically correct.Nothing is mandatory including abiding by any law one chooses to break. Having to conform to mandated vaccination in order to be able to earn a living(work) trade(shop), socialise(go out in public)is pretty much as close as it comes though as far as participating in society is concerned,so I don't know why people put this semantics based argument out there as if its some point of principle.

To your second point, arent you assuming everyone of the overwhelming small minority who opt against vaccination are likely to not only catch covid, but also require hospitalisation contrary to all statistics?
Why, or how do you think this small minority represent any greater a strain on the healthcare system than that which it has already gone through and survived quite easily pre-vaccine?
Why do people consider non-vaccinated covid admissions as lesser deserving of hospital beds than people suffering any ailment bought about through "non-ideal" lifestyle choices, or vaccinated covid admissions?

Mandatory is mandatory, its not semantics. If you don't like it, get another job and don't go to the tennis. It's a choice.

We survived because there's been little or no community Covid cases with lockdowns and border closures. Once we open up and with Delta, its a new ball game. Cases will increase rapidly and ICUs will be packed. No-one will deny the unvaccinated a hospital bed but there will be less beds available for them and for others who need them for other conditions, all due to increased Covid cases. Elective surgery could cease again to open up resources so waiting lists will get even longer. Ramping could go ballistic if there are no hospital beds to put people into.

"I want my freedom" comes with a huge personal and community cost for everyone. Even at 80%, thats 20% not covered, not a small number.

 

[Vader]

"I want my freedom" comes with a huge personal and community cost for everyone. Even at 80%, thats 20% not covered, not a small number.

Don't forget - 80% for Scomo & Gladys is really only 64%, because they refuse to include anyone aged < 16 in their accounting. That's 36% of the population still vulnerable to the virus, and Delta isn't as picky about only taking the elderly as the original Wuhan strain.

The ACT, on the other hand is looking like exceeding 99% of the population aged 12+.

 

[Slippery Pete]

What people don't understand is that no vaccination including Covid is mandatory. No-one is forcing anyone to have it, its not compulsory.
If they choose not to be vaccinated, then fine they can take their chances when Covid inevitably hits us.

The problem for them and everyone else is that the health system and in particular ICU's will be overflowing, and those who can't get in for severe Covid infection or any other serious illness requiring ICU admission will suffer and are more likely to die of whatever affliction they are suffering from.
The waverers, those waiting for their mythical preferred brand of vaccine, and those who previously couldn't be bothered, which is a large group, are now getting the jab. Those who seriously don't want it can still remain unvaccinated.

People are being coerced into having it. This is undeniable.

 

[1970crow]

Weird that they'd attempt to deny access in the first place.

 

[Mutineer]

An eye watering 2,232 new cases in Dano's Viktoriastan and 12 further deaths.

 

[Slippery Pete]

An eye watering 2,232 new cases in Dano's Viktoriastan and 12 further deaths.

At least the short sharp lockdown is ending this week.

It really worked. So short. So sharp. So effective.

 

[fortunatecrow]

Weird that they'd attempt to deny access in the first place.

Probably had to wait until the ink was dry

 

[1970crow]

An eye watering 2,232 new cases in Dano's Viktoriastan and 12 further deaths.

I think some numpty may have described Victoria's lockdown as platinum standard.

 

[Apsaalooke]

People are being coerced into having it. This is undeniable.

Seatbelts and bicycle helmets are coercive as there’s a legal penalty for non- compliance but there’s not for non- vaccination.
I call it encouragement you call it coercion but regardless it will save lives

 

[Crow till I die]

An eye watering 2,232 new cases in Dano's Viktoriastan and 12 further deaths.

so approx 1 in 200 people catching Covid are dying from it..maybe the deaths were from the unvaccinated? or maybe they were primarily people ill hat contracted it and it was enough to push them over the edge?

Do they release stats on hospitalisations daily as well to get an idea of these numbers as a % of the total daily number of cases

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

so approx 1 in 200 people catching Covid are dying from it..maybe the deaths were from the unvaccinated? or maybe they were primarily people ill hat contracted it and it was enough to push them over the edge?

Do they release stats on hospitalisations daily as well to get an idea of these numbers as a % of the total daily number of cases

Closer to a 2% death rate in Victoria if you compare those who have died v recovered from covid.

There is a breakdown of daily hospitalisations, including number vaccinated or not.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Seatbelts and bicycle helmets are coercive as there’s a legal penalty for non- compliance but there’s not for non- vaccination.
I call it encouragement you call it coercion but regardless it will save lives

Nobody ever lost their job or was refused entry somewhere because they didn’t wear a bike helmet.

 

[1970crow]

Seatbelts and bicycle helmets are coercive as there’s a legal penalty for non- compliance but there’s not for non- vaccination.
I call it encouragement you call it coercion but regardless it will save lives

Speeding fine $300, non-vaccinated nurse sacked from $80k/year job. Legal penalty or not, the costs of non-compliance aren't even in the same ballpark. I will give you straight 10's for the mental gymnastics you're obviously performing in order to ignore the bleedingly obvious though.

 

[1970crow]

so approx 1 in 200 people catching Covid are dying from it..maybe the deaths were from the unvaccinated? or maybe they were primarily people ill hat contracted it and it was enough to push them over the edge?

Do they release stats on hospitalisations daily as well to get an idea of these numbers as a % of the total daily number of cases

they seem to have stopped letting us know whether the dead people had other illnesses or not. Early days they did because they didn't want us to panic too much. Now they want us in a state of max fear so letting us know the existing conditions of the dead would be counterproductive. The absence of information tells you everything you need to know.

 

[Crow till I die]

they seem to have stopped letting us know whether the dead people had other illnesses or not. Early days they did because they didn't want us to panic too much. Now they want us in a state of max fear so letting us know the existing conditions of the dead would be counterproductive. The absence of information tells you everything you need to know.

No doubt there is an element of control playing its part. Digging into the actual numbers, it would be great to know how many people had Covid and had no symptoms, how many had it and were NOT hospitalised, How many then had it and were hospitalised and survived and how many that both were hospitalised and those that died that had underlying health conditions or were unvaccinated.

I know that sounds like a lot of stats but if 95% of those catching Covid either have no symptoms or are not ill enough to warrant hospitalisation - especially with a high vaccination rate to the populace, then what possible justification is there to ban people from participating in society. Again, Myself, my wife and very soon to be my chjildren will be fully vaccinated so we are not decrying getting vaccinated in any way shape or form, but those who choose not to should not be excluded from society and it is then on them to make sure they take their own precautions ie masks, hand washing, social distancing etc as they see fit. As I suspect it is likely most of those who even choose to not be vaccinated who end up getting Covid, unless they are already suffering from another condition are not likely to die or get very ill - statistically

 

[1970crow]

No doubt there is an element of control playing its part. Digging into the actual numbers, it would be great to know how many people had Covid and had no symptoms, how many had it and were NOT hospitalised, How many then had it and were hospitalised and survived and how many that both were hospitalised and those that died that had underlying health conditions or were unvaccinated.

I know that sounds like a lot of stats but if 95% of those catching Covid either have no symptoms or are not ill enough to warrant hospitalisation - especially with a high vaccination rate to the populace, then what possible justification is there to ban people from participating in society. Again, Myself, my wife and very soon to be my chjildren will be fully vaccinated so we are not decrying getting vaccinated in any way shape or form, but those who choose not to should not be excluded from society and it is then on them to make sure they take their own precautions ie masks, hand washing, social distancing etc as they see fit. As I suspect it is likely most of those who even choose to not be vaccinated who end up getting Covid, unless they are already suffering from another condition are not likely to die or get very ill - statistically

the info we do and don't get isn't by accident. They provide only what they feel minimises any other questioning like the above. They don't want people thinking and discussing, they only want people doing what they say and telling others to do what they say. It's turned into a religion, if you're not 100% on board with Saint Niccola then you're a denier. Just disagree on or even question 1 point and you'll be shouted down by the great unthinking.

 

[Apsaalooke]

Speeding fine $300, non-vaccinated nurse sacked from $80k/year job. Legal penalty or not, the costs of non-compliance aren't even in the same ballpark. I will give you straight 10's for the mental gymnastics you're obviously performing in order to ignore the bleedingly obvious though.

You're breaking my heart. They have a choice. Get the safe vaccine like any sensible person would and save themselves and others. Or get another job, if you don't want the vaccine, then the health industry isn't for you.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

No doubt there is an element of control playing its part. Digging into the actual numbers, it would be great to know how many people had Covid and had no symptoms, how many had it and were NOT hospitalised, How many then had it and were hospitalised and survived and how many that both were hospitalised and those that died that had underlying health conditions or were unvaccinated.

I know that sounds like a lot of stats but if 95% of those catching Covid either have no symptoms or are not ill enough to warrant hospitalisation - especially with a high vaccination rate to the populace, then what possible justification is there to ban people from participating in society. Again, Myself, my wife and very soon to be my chjildren will be fully vaccinated so we are not decrying getting vaccinated in any way shape or form, but those who choose not to should not be excluded from society and it is then on them to make sure they take their own precautions ie masks, hand washing, social distancing etc as they see fit. As I suspect it is likely most of those who even choose to not be vaccinated who end up getting Covid, unless they are already suffering from another condition are not likely to die or get very ill - statistically

You may find this website interesting:

3,013,866 Coronavirus Cases and 1,432 Active in Victoria - COVID Live

Live tracking of coronavirus cases, active, tests, deaths, ICU, hospitalisations and vaccinations in Victoria

covidlive.com.au

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

they seem to have stopped letting us know whether the dead people had other illnesses or not. Early days they did because they didn't want us to panic too much. Now they want us in a state of max fear so letting us know the existing conditions of the dead would be counterproductive. The absence of information tells you everything you need to know.

They have the information, but given the daily number of deaths have been higher since the Delta outbreaks in NSW & Victoria, it would take considerable airtime to go the particulars of each death... when the messaging priority is no doubt elsewhere.

 

[1970crow]

You're breaking my heart. They have a choice. Get the safe vaccine like any sensible person would and save themselves and others. Or get another job, if you don't want the vaccine, then the health industry isn't for you.

it's not just the health industry though. And aren't masks meant to nearly eliminate the risk anyway?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Speeding fine $300, non-vaccinated nurse sacked from $80k/year job. Legal penalty or not, the costs of non-compliance aren't even in the same ballpark. I will give you straight 10's for the mental gymnastics you're obviously performing in order to ignore the bleedingly obvious though.

People can lose their jobs when they lose their drivers license too.

I have minimum requirements which are already required for my job & a now another - being vaccinated for covid has been added - which is not unreasonable given I work with clinicians.

 

[1970crow]

They have the information, but given the daily number of deaths have been higher since the Delta outbreaks in NSW & Victoria, it would take considerable airtime to go the particulars of each death... when the messaging priority is no doubt elsewhere.

don't be ridiculous. It's a handful per day and it wouldn't need to hit the TV, it should be readily available on the state governments covid health pages. Just put your brain in gear every now and again instead of this mindless defence of everything they do or don't do. "Considerable airtime", seriously Kane, just think for a second.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

it's not just the health industry though. And aren't masks meant to nearly eliminate the risk anyway?

Business owners are now making the call that they don't want to risk their business operations being disrupted due to unvaccinated staff... which puts both their staff & customers at a higher risk of covid.

These are business decisions & requirements which are similar to other requirements for employment that exist at the moment.

 

[1970crow]

People can lose their jobs when they lose their drivers license too.

I have minimum requirements which are already required for my job & a now another - being vaccinated for covid has been added - which is not unreasonable given I work with clinicians.

only if you signed on with it being a condition of employment. On the second part, I can agree, but you mentioned it being reasonable due to the nature of your work. So you're saying it should be risk based dependent upon work rather than a blanket rule?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

don't be ridiculous. It's a handful per day and it wouldn't need to hit the TV, it should be readily available on the state governments covid health pages. Just put your brain in gear every now and again instead of this mindless defence of everything they do or don't do. "Considerable airtime", seriously Kane, just think for a second.

You want there to be a media briefing on every death.

Why stop at covid deaths?

How about there is a briefing on every death in the health system.

You have your agenda & feel free to harp on about it forever...