Division 3 - 2015

[Mounzer11]

At the detriment of the clubs that are currently involved

This is a great point TT. It seems growth is more important than retention.
It happens in a lot of organisations where the focus is winning new business takes precedence over the retention of current business.
There is nothing in this proposal that tells me that it is aimed at the current clubs - it seems their needs and wants are secondary.

 

[2s Hack]

Why don't people embrace it

 

[GoodFeller]

Why would people embrace an idea that is pretty clearly a bad choice?

 

[GoodFeller]

Why don't we get some ladder predictions? Who does everyone think will make the finals?

 

[Chazz M Michaels]

Why would people embrace an idea that is pretty clearly a bad choice?

According to a few posters on a public forum...

There are good arguments for both the positive and negative - Neither indicate a clear good/bad choice.

No one on here would know the how many clubs the VAFA have spoken to over the years about joining/leaving, what their main concerns are and what direction they'd like the VAFA to be seen heading.

You can't just rely on the comings and goings of certain clubs, although it can be used for arguments sake. It's hard to quantify the what the positive and negative impacts would be of implementing a regionalized system but it's definitely not so black and white as some posters like to claim.

At the end of the day, the issue about travel has been in the background for years and will continue to be - I believe it's better to have a good go at it properly, not like the sh1te job they did back in the 90's, and then you'll know for sure and can get more data on the impact of the system. If it fails, at least the VAFA will have more information on what will work and what won't, which will ultimately strengthen the competition.

And can I also say, it's not just the travel that's an issue here. The VAFA isn't able to get a foothold into some localized areas due to teams having a disconnect with opposition due to locale. It affects supporter base and, in turn, revenue for clubs.

 

[zeroseven]

According to a few posters on a public forum...

There are good arguments for both the positive and negative - Neither indicate a clear good/bad choice.

No one on here would know the how many clubs the VAFA have spoken to over the years about joining/leaving, what their main concerns are and what direction they'd like the VAFA to be seen heading.

You can't just rely on the comings and goings of certain clubs, although it can be used for arguments sake. It's hard to quantify the what the positive and negative impacts would be of implementing a regionalized system but it's definitely not so black and white as some posters like to claim.

At the end of the day, the issue about travel has been in the background for years and will continue to be - I believe it's better to have a good go at it properly, not like the sh1te job they did back in the 90's, and then you'll know for sure and can get more data on the impact of the system. If it fails, at least the VAFA will have more information on what will work and what won't, which will ultimately strengthen the competition.

And can I also say, it's not just the travel that's an issue here. The VAFA isn't able to get a foothold into some localized areas due to teams having a disconnect with opposition due to locale. It affects supporter base and, in turn, revenue for clubs.

How many years/seasons would you think is reasonable to trial?

 

[Chazz M Michaels]

How many years/seasons would you think is reasonable to trial?

I wouldn't say "trial" - That would indicate a half-baked system, not fully invested in. That would be the worst thing to do.

Go fully backed, fully fledged. I wouldn't even indicate there is a chance of going back to the old system.

It'd take at least a whole season, if not two, to iron out any glaring inefficiencies of the system itself (assuming they structure the competition correctly from the get-go so they aren't moving teams/clubs around during the first year) - Depending on what metrics are key for the VAFA, they'd need to run it long enough to get enough data to successfully measure the impact the changes have had and how they can tweak it to improve. So I can't, off the top of my head, say how long a reasonable period is before making a decision on whether to roll-back or not.

 

[zeroseven]

I wouldn't say "trial" - That would indicate a half-baked system, not fully invested in. That would be the worst thing to do.

Go fully backed, fully fledged. I wouldn't even indicate there is a chance of going back to the old system.

It'd take at least a whole season, if not two, to iron out any glaring inefficiencies of the system itself (assuming they structure the competition correctly from the get-go so they aren't moving teams/clubs around during the first year) - Depending on what metrics are key for the VAFA, they'd need to run it long enough to get enough data to successfully measure the impact the changes have had and how they can tweak it to improve. So I can't, off the top of my head, say how long a reasonable period is before making a decision on whether to roll-back or not.

Well Chazza they tried to make it work for 5 seasons last time and it was a farce. Here are some of the highlights not in any order
1. Started with E East/South/Central in 1995 with Eltham playing in Central with Old Westbourne ... yes that saved on travel ...Not!
2. The following year Eltham taken out of central and put in East [one of many switches over the 5 years].
3. In the 1996 season 2 of the relegated teams were put in Central [lucky division that one -Willi and Uni Blacks] and other changes occurred again.
4. In 1996 the famous VAFA occurrence - Southbank relegated from D Grade with 9 wins and 9 losses [laughing stock that one]
5. As a result of all the mucking around with team placements East had 9 teams as did Central creating unwanted and unnecessary byes - Lucky South had 10 teams.
####### Clubs were moved to try to fix the inequitable system and in the end the VAFA announced that after 3 years of total F ups they would try the following for 1998. A/B/C/D/ E Blue & E White with F Grade underneath them.

Tremendous thinking abounded then
1. Decided to drop 4 teams from D Grade yes the 7th team relegated.
2. The final 4 from F Grade were also promoted to the E Grade
3. D Grade in 1998 had 12 teams - whoops lop sided fixtures again
4. Wait for it - yes 3 of the D grade teams were placed in E Blue and just one to E White at the end of 1998 - Weren't the other E Blue clubs happy?
5. Yes this meant more inequitable draws and unhappy clubs all round.

VAFA announced that this would be trialled for 2 years and despite the terrible 1998 situations enforced it again in 1999 and then "Fabulous Phil" announced that the Board thought that stuffing it up for 5 years was enough and returned it too basically what we have now.

I could site many more incidences of how this system made games uncompetitive but I don't want to break a record for the length of a "Post!"

Chasm - Do the clubs matter? - some clubs have been down so long this has the potential to kill them off by making potential success unobtainable. Guess they can hardly wait to play teams closer by and get really thumped ... players will be lining up to join them! Perhaps if they had just 90 volunteers like BS suggests it wound be different. Doubt Brian has seen a lower division game in his esteemed life!

The VAFA HAS A HISTORY OF EXPERIMENTING WITH LOWER DIVISION CLUBS - CURRENTLY DIV3 HAS AN UNWANTED 12 TEAMS & THIS CREATES AN INEQUITABLE DRAW & DOESN'T HELP WITH RELATIONSHIPS WHEN YOU KNOW A CLUB ISN'T GOING TO YOUR GROUND TO PLAY. YOU PLAY 7 TEAMS TWICE AND THE OTHER 4 TEAMS ONCE.

It won't matter to any A/B/C Grade club is this regionalisation occurs. It should be left to the Division clubs to vote on their future. It has been tried and failed miserably and will again.

 

[Canada]

Couldn't agree more with Zero Seven. Would be a disastrous move.

 

[MotorBike Rob]

Unfortunately with the VAFA is that they can put out all the survey monkeys they want but at the end of the day of the want to regionalise it they will. It is bullsh@t.

Back to 2015. Let's talk ins and outs. I had a quick trawl through the clearances and did notice Hawthorns captain Tremewen was shipping out to the eastern league. Any info there? Not happy with the club ? Club not happy with him? Seems a bit Ryan Griffin from a far.

 

[Fosters]

Unfortunately with the VAFA is that they can put out all the survey monkeys they want but at the end of the day of the want to regionalise it they will. It is bullsh@t.

Back to 2015. Let's talk ins and outs. I had a quick trawl through the clearances and did notice Hawthorns captain Tremewen was shipping out to the eastern league. Any info there? Not happy with the club ? Club not happy with him? Seems a bit Ryan Griffin from a far.

Tremers has left the club because he bought a house. He told us half way through last season he would be working on Saturdays this year and not playing. Our ex coach Rick Barkla is coaching at Nunawading and offered him some good coin to play with them. No hard feelings from us, we understand his financial position.

 

[Fosters]

And on the Regionalisation issue, I would have thought a survey with 4 questions that takes 2 minutes to fill in doesn't really allow for anyone to raise their real concerns like we have seen on this forum.

 

[Mounzer11]

Tremers has left the club because he bought a house. He told us half way through last season he would be working on Saturdays this year and not playing. Our ex coach Rick Barkla is coaching at Nunawading and offered him some good coin to play with them. No hard feelings from us, we understand his financial position.

I think its extremely poor form for an ex VAFA coach to move to the paid leagues and poach players from their old club.
Could be a reason he couldn't win a flag in D4 with the group, as this move shows that he probably couldn't give a sh*t about the club.

 

[Brad Goodman]

Club probably better off without them in that case. That's footy, and life, though.

 

[trucka]

And on the Regionalisation issue, I would have thought a survey with 4 questions that takes 2 minutes to fill in doesn't really allow for anyone to raise their real concerns like we have seen on this forum.

If answering no in question 3, why do you then have to select what division you think it should start in Question 4. if answered no, then question 4 becomes irrelevant.
I'm guessing they will ignore the responses to Question 3, and comeback with "70% of the survey said regionalisation should start at D1" and base their decision on this.

 

[Bingle_21]

If answering no in question 3, why do you then have to select what division you think it should start in Question 4. if answered no, then question 4 becomes irrelevant.
I'm guessing they will ignore the responses to Question 3, and comeback with "70% of the survey said regionalisation should start at D1" and base their decision on this.

I agree. Once I saw this I went back to Q1 and selected "other" (as that was the only place you could write comments) and stated that my selection was not to answer Q4 but their survey design had forced a response.

 

[coachnoodles]

Unfortunately with the VAFA is that they can put out all the survey monkeys they want but at the end of the day of the want to regionalise it they will. It is bullsh@t.

Back to 2015. Let's talk ins and outs. I had a quick trawl through the clearances and did notice Hawthorns captain Tremewen was shipping out to the eastern league. Any info there? Not happy with the club ? Club not happy with him? Seems a bit Ryan Griffin from a far.

As Fosters mentioned - no hard feeling towards T at all. He's been a stud for the club for the past few years and as much as we would love to have him still he's been up front with us all along about his intentions for 2015. Hopefully he tears them a new one at nuna.

On the upside we should be replacing him with another League B&F winner which is always nice.

 

[2s Hack]

As Fosters mentioned - no hard feeling towards T at all. He's been a stud for the club for the past few years and as much as we would love to have him still he's been up front with us all along about his intentions for 2015. Hopefully he tears them a new one at nuna.

On the upside we should be replacing him with another League B&F winner which is always nice.

So he's been performing well off the field as well as on it then?

 

[Archangel17]

So he's been performing well off the field as well as on it then?

On a different note- Ang Lekkas to Hawthorn.Has he played at all in recent years?

 

[Mounzer11]

On a different note- Ang Lekkas to Hawthorn.Has he played at all in recent years?

I would assume to join the Greek contingent in the clubbies side.

 

[local footy fan]

On a different note- Ang Lekkas to Hawthorn.Has he played at all in recent years?

i think he played at Craigieburn about 3 years ago when they were in div 1

 

[Over The Post]

Tell me, how many clubs have left comp in past 5/7 years for travel (don't include Rupetswood or Werribee, they were due to money).

Wyndham Suns - very competitive U19s, most of whom will become the nucleus of the first senior side. Pulled the pin on D4 and went to WRFL mainly on the players/parents experience of traipsing all over Melbourne in U19N.

 

[Bingle_21]

Wyndham Suns - very competitive U19s, most of whom will become the nucleus of the first senior side. Pulled the pin on D4 and went to WRFL mainly on the players/parents experience of traipsing all over Melbourne in U19N.

So having a competition that was "regionalised" (assuming the "N" is for North in U19N) didn't actually solve the issue of having to travel?

Isnt that one of the main reasons to regionalise the competition though?

 

[Over The Post]

The biggest whinge/gripe/neveragain were the two matches at Yarra Valley, strategically held with a 9:30 kickoff. Did not go down well.

 

[bundles]

The biggest whinge/gripe/neveragain were the two matches at Yarra Valley, strategically held with a 9:30 kickoff. Did not go down well.

Whinge being the correct word there. Yarra valley like a lot of clubs have 1 ground for 3 teams. When would you like the game to be played? Move the seniors to 9.30? Twit