Analysis Good, Bad, Ugly v Port Adelaide Round 8 2021

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Crow till I die

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Name me one, just one great forward in the game’s history who became great by serving a midfield apprenticeship?

I don’t mind playing him in there as a specific strategy, if we think he has the attributes to help us in that position, but if the reason we’re doing it is to improve him as a forward, we are barking up the wrong tree.
Leigh matthews ;)
 

Bob Neil

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If he doesn't start to show other AFL traits other than his elite goal kicking when someone delivers the ball to him he might find himself back in Lucindale on the tractor or in the shearing shed. He is in control of his own football destiny and the club have certainly tried more than one avenue re position to get him competitive.
The one thing they haven’t tried - and it’s a big move for obvious reasons - is playing him *instead* of Tex.

I just think they’re so similar as players and because Tex gets first crack at his preferred position and attracts more of our forward entries that Fog is left fighting for scraps...and he’s shown he’s incapable of doing that well.
I’d rest Tex for four weeks and give Fog a stretch of playing the position that he was made for - that of leading full forward.
 

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It does seem this thread has moved on a bit from GB&U, so let me go with a few observations:
1. I remember Tex running around early in his career at the G so lost and so without capacity to win the ball or impact the game, I thought he wasn’t going to make it. Remember it so clearly because I was loving the glimpses he had shown. He worked hard from there on his game, his defensive side, his winning the ball. The parallels I see now with Fog are major. Give the kid time.
2. I don’t understand the Hately pick. He’s super young so per above, maybe it’s a time thing. But he was terrible against us last year and I was not unhappy about not making the trade for him. He’s now with us though, and I see nothing there. I hope he makes it but so much hot air for what I can’t see.
3. Our midfield and stoppage work is so bad right now I don’t know why anyone would focus on our forwards.
 

Bovo

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His forward craft is pretty good.

But right now he is looking like a guy who will average 1.5 gpg and sub 10 disposals. Offer nothing other than kick goals. Meaning we will be a player down across the ground.


He is going to be Tex 2.0 Tex is best when he is contributing up the ground. Not just kicking goals. Last two games we have seen Tex incapable of pushing up the ground. And his forward craft has suffered.


Tex went through this process. Fog is now.


I realise this is an unpopular opinion here, but it is modern Footy. Goal kicking specialists are dinosaurs.




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If I recall correctly Tex came to be with Tippet by his side. Two big forwards to split the defence (with different weapons). So how much of a contested beast can Fog become? If running and making space is not a strong point, can he mark our kick and hope tactics?
 

Albert Bruce

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I think the tape will show the kids hit in .. body size does matter .. a lot of kid's bodies at the moment .. what did happen though was when we did extract the ball it was most often under pressure so the forward entries were all over the shop. Their entries were better, more talent on the park will change some of that. We have a couple who are out of their depth ..... !! Having a big heart is not the only determining factor and I think we have drafted a couple who fall into that category .. long road to travel for Adelaide !
 

CrowBloke

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But he's 100% fit though, no need to manage him at all.
I saw a bit of Footy Classified (I think last Monday) and they interviewed Tex, who said he was fit, good pre-season etc. Looked happy and confident. I don't think he's injured but he
--- is getting dismal supply
--- is overcrowded (so drop one tall; my choice Himmelberg) and get Tex to work with Thilthorpe and Fogarty eg Fogarty lead to the L, Tex to the R or vice versa, Thilthorpe at FF. Tell RoB to stay out of the F50 entirely and explain to him what "a kick behind the play" means.
Someone above suggested rotating Sloane and Keays forward too; good idea, with Ned and Murphy out.
 

Scorpus

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Alright so like last week I was interested in seeing how some specific players played and used Stats Pro to watch all their involvements. Here are my thoughts

Darcy Fogarty

Almost all of his disposals were ground ball gets in a pack, taking on a tackler and getting out a disposal. In my opinion he is one of the only players on our list who consistently is able to wear tackles and execute well under that sort of pressure. His decision making about where to dispose it to in these moments is elite.

However there's still plenty to work on. He isn't getting uncontested possessions in the midfield, no easy handball receives, which I think will improve over time. He also had no impact inside 50 whatsoever, zero marks or disposals in there and his goal was TT's free. Overall there is enough there to persist with.

Elliot Himmelberg

Had two nice inside 50 passes in total for the game. Missed a regulation set shot. Several of his contested possessions were him attempting to mark the ball at his feet and the ball hitting the deck instead. Took two marks in the entire game, one of which was a contested mark in defense. Had no impact anywhere on the field, especially outside the first quarter

Taylor Walker

Had a stinker overall and got bullied in the air. However I felt he was more effective than Himmelberg, the few disposals he did get were smarter, more effective and very much to our advantage. Had a nice goal assist to TT. His main issue was getting destroyed in the contest, any time there was an opponent right on him he was woeful.

Riley Thilthorpe

Was our most effective forward target and was building into the game nicely up until his knee injury in the 3rd quarter. Was virtually unsighted after that point. Has very, very good disposal. Clearly an AFL player.

David Mackay

Had a terrible game, below average for even his standard. I'd class maybe 3-4 of his disposals outside the defensive 50 as genuinely to our advantage. Only had one of his signature run and carry moments in the entire match. Several of his disposals were abysmal turnovers for example kicking point blank into a Port player inside 50, or handballing into the body of a Port player instead of a team mate. Two of his three tackles were not effective, but the third should have been a free kick.

Jake Kelly

You cannot fault his defensive work, attack on the ball and general endeavor. His major issue, which remains to this day from his very first game, is he is totally incapable of any offensive work. He has one way of playing: mark, get back off the mark, stop, look around, take the safe chip 30m up the line to a free player. He did this almost every single time.

And the simple reason why he does this and rarely plays on? Because whenever he does play on, he turns it over. It's blatantly obvious in the footage if you can be bothered watching it. Stop and prop = safe kick to a free player. Play on = long kick to a 1-on-2 in Port's favor, or a kick over a forward's head, or just a kick straight to the opposition. I get why we play him, he plays his defensive role well. But surely we can move on from this.

Reilly O'Brien

I slogged my way through all of his hitouts. And I'll be honest, he actually wasn't that bad when he got the tap. The midfielders around him hung him out to dry a lot, there were times where every Port player was playing in front of the Crows player (closer to the ruck), and other times where our mids would just clean miss the ball. Quite a few structural issues there.

Aside from that the reason he had a poor game was no impact around the ground whatsoever. I mean dead set zero involvement in anything out of the ruck. How does a 200cm player not mark the ball once in an entire game of AFL?

Sam Berry

Copped a shocker of a free kick against him in the first quarter. He really should have kicked that shot on goal, he was in a mountain of space. Had a couple of nice involvements and ground ball gets where he was about 20% off on the execution at the end. Aside from that I don't know how much time he actually spent in the midfield but let's hope it wasn't much because he did not get involved much up the field. He has a ripping tackle technique but unfortunately on a few occasions the only reason he got the tackle was because he was second to the ball where he probably should have gotten there first. Persist for sure but looks a midfielder to me, not a forward.

Jimmy Rowe

Night and day versus last week. Got involved way more around the ground, had some genuine crumbs and applied a few tackles at the fall of the ball. Given our forward entries played about as well as you would hope from a small forward. However, he didn't get near it in the 4th quarter so faded out of the game badly

Harry Schoenberg

Really, really like the way he plays. His disposal is very creative and always looking for an attacking pass to our advantage, doesn't always pull it off but that will come in time. Has neat positioning and a good burst to get clear when necessary. Unfortunately his choice to handball backwards over his head instead of taking it over the boundary line in Q2 was a byproduct of the way he plays and just generally a shocking error.
 
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CrowBloke

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Harry Schoenberg
Really, really like the way he plays. His disposal is very creative and always looking for an attacking pass to our advantage, doesn't always pull it off but that will come in time. Has neat positioning and a good burst to get clear when necessary. Unfortunately his choice to handball backwards over his head instead of taking it over the boundary line in Q2 was a byproduct of the way he plays and just generally a shocking error.
Really interesting summary.
Yes, I saw that at the time; score board, their I50. It resulted in a PA goal and I mentioned it early in this thread. Those dinky ballet-pirouette handballs rarely come off, by any but the best players.
Time, and place.
I can't imagine why he did that instead of just taking it oob, as you said. Trying to make something, out of nothing? If it was in our F50, I'd get it, but theirs??
I agree that he will be a player, though. Many of his passes set teammates up into space; he's got footy smarts.
 
Apr 11, 2021
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Mate, development isn't linear.

Most of our kids are undersized and about 2 preseasons short of a decent tank. Some of them won't make it, but it's far far too early to judge most of them right now.

There's a fair amount of hysteria from people on this board, given that most having being crying out for a bottom out for years. We are one draft into it and people are expecting that we can hang with mature teams at the height of their development cycles.

It'll be a roller coaster for at least two or three years. We are at least two good draft years away from having the cattle. We are at least one year away from being able to make a call on some players who've been on the list for a while but had stifled development under the previous regime.

You are not going to see linear development. Kids get tired, they don't carry injuries as well. Look for small gains, such as McHenry improving or Harry slowly building midfield minutes. Butts playing like a 50 game defender and Thilthorpe looking like he will deliver on the #2 pick. These kids will go through peaks and troughs over the next 24 months. Judge them then not now.

Lower your expectations.
Can I like this post twice?

Very well articulated. Just spot on.
 

Lady Godava

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Good: Seedsman was good again.

Bad: Most of it including some blatant dropping the ball decisions that go unpaid.
Our tackling.

Ugly: Lycetts tackle was a pure filth; then to rag doll Neds semi conscious body came from the gutter.

Embarrassing: Minnows ‘identity crisis’ they are the laughing stock of the nation. The chip on their shoulder has become massive 🤡s
 

Geoffa32

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If I recall correctly Tex came to be with Tippet by his side. Two big forwards to split the defence (with different weapons). So how much of a contested beast can Fog become? If running and making space is not a strong point, can he mark our kick and hope tactics?
Our midfield needs to lift as well.



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Geoffa32

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Really interesting summary.
Yes, I saw that at the time; score board, their I50. It resulted in a PA goal and I mentioned it early in this thread. Those dinky ballet-pirouette handballs rarely come off, by any but the best players.
Time, and place.
I can't imagine why he did that instead of just taking it oob, as you said. Trying to make something, out of nothing? If it was in our F50, I'd get it, but theirs??
I agree that he will be a player, though. Many of his passes set teammates up into space; he's got footy smarts.
It was a mistake.

But I like that he is trying those sort of plays.

With maturity, and better quality around him, they will come off more.

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CrowBloke

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1) It was a mistake.
2) But I like that he is trying those sort of plays.
3) With maturity, and better quality around him, they will come off more.
1) Yeah it was; I'm not going to hang him on that one, alone. His good far exceeds his bad. I've loved a few of his passes to Tex in particular in the first 4 or 5 rounds, either lace out on his chest, or placed well to his advantage. Sometimes Tex reciprocates :sneaky::

2) I didn't, simply because of Defensive footy 101, Article 7 --- "Though shalt not handball blindly back into play in thine opponents' F50, lest ye giveth away a goal" :shoutyoldman: ;).
3) Agreed.
 

craig crowing

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Got frustrated with interview during game where Nicks talked about lot of contested things but not about our movement forward or overall kicking .
We are not going to start moving forward until we stop banging on the boot with hope in general direction .
Usually by then forward moved to lead and it goes directly to opposition which then starts opposition clear movement of ball from D into attack in a heartbeat.
Laird although love his endeavour is the main culprit along with most others with Schoenberg one that attempts to get clear and direct ball and usually Sholl but not Saturday.
 

Sprungy

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Alright so like last week I was interested in seeing how some specific players played and used Stats Pro to watch all their involvements. Here are my thoughts

Darcy Fogarty

Almost all of his disposals were ground ball gets in a pack, taking on a tackler and getting out a disposal. In my opinion he is one of the only players on our list who consistently is able to wear tackles and execute well under that sort of pressure. His decision making about where to dispose it to in these moments is elite.

However there's still plenty to work on. He isn't getting uncontested possessions in the midfield, no easy handball receives, which I think will improve over time. He also had no impact inside 50 whatsoever, zero marks or disposals in there and his goal was TT's free. Overall there is enough there to persist with.

Elliot Himmelberg

Had two nice inside 50 passes in total for the game. Missed a regulation set shot. Several of his contested possessions were him attempting to mark the ball at his feet and the ball hitting the deck instead. Took two marks in the entire game, one of which was a contested mark in defense. Had no impact anywhere on the field, especially outside the first quarter

Taylor Walker

Had a stinker overall and got bullied in the air. However I felt he was more effective than Himmelberg, the few disposals he did get were smarter, more effective and very much to our advantage. Had a nice goal assist to TT. His main issue was getting destroyed in the contest, any time there was an opponent right on him he was woeful.

Riley Thilthorpe

Was our most effective forward target and was building into the game nicely up until his knee injury in the 3rd quarter. Was virtually unsighted after that point. Has very, very good disposal. Clearly an AFL player.

David Mackay

Had a terrible game, below average for even his standard. I'd class maybe 3-4 of his disposals outside the defensive 50 as genuinely to our advantage. Only had one of his signature run and carry moments in the entire match. Several of his disposals were abysmal turnovers for example kicking point blank into a Port player inside 50, or handballing into the body of a Port player instead of a team mate. Two of his three tackles were not effective, but the third should have been a free kick.

Jake Kelly

You cannot fault his defensive work, attack on the ball and general endeavor. His major issue, which remains to this day from his very first game, is he is totally incapable of any offensive work. He has one way of playing: mark, get back off the mark, stop, look around, take the safe chip 30m up the line to a free player. He did this almost every single time.

And the simple reason why he does this and rarely plays on? Because whenever he does play on, he turns it over. It's blatantly obvious in the footage if you can be bothered watching it. Stop and prop = safe kick to a free player. Play on = long kick to a 1-on-2 in Port's favor, or a kick over a forward's head, or just a kick straight to the opposition. I get why we play him, he plays his defensive role well. But surely we can move on from this.

Reilly O'Brien

I slogged my way through all of his hitouts. And I'll be honest, he actually wasn't that bad when he got the tap. The midfielders around him hung him out to dry a lot, there were times where every Port player was playing in front of the Crows player (closer to the ruck), and other times where our mids would just clean miss the ball. Quite a few structural issues there.

Aside from that the reason he had a poor game was no impact around the ground whatsoever. I mean dead set zero involvement in anything out of the ruck. How does a 200cm player not mark the ball once in an entire game of AFL?

Sam Berry

Copped a shocker of a free kick against him in the first quarter. He really should have kicked that shot on goal, he was in a mountain of space. Had a couple of nice involvements and ground ball gets where he was about 20% off on the execution at the end. Aside from that I don't know how much time he actually spent in the midfield but let's hope it wasn't much because he did not get involved much up the field. He has a ripping tackle technique but unfortunately on a few occasions the only reason he got the tackle was because he was second to the ball where he probably should have gotten there first. Persist for sure but looks a midfielder to me, not a forward.

Jimmy Rowe

Night and day versus last week. Got involved way more around the ground, had some genuine crumbs and applied a few tackles at the fall of the ball. Given our forward entries played about as well as you would hope from a small forward. However, he didn't get near it in the 4th quarter so faded out of the game badly

Harry Schoenberg

Really, really like the way he plays. His disposal is very creative and always looking for an attacking pass to our advantage, doesn't always pull it off but that will come in time. Has neat positioning and a good burst to get clear when necessary. Unfortunately his choice to handball backwards over his head instead of taking it over the boundary line in Q2 was a byproduct of the way he plays and just generally a shocking error.
Agree fully about Fogarty . He is the only player that shows intent on hurting opponents in the tackle . Either be the intimidater or get intimidated in this game . We never recruit this type of player . We are the nice boys club.
 

CrowBloke

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Very Ugly:
Google "Lycett", and there are several articles about Lycett's sling tackle on McHenry + his complaints about being vilified on social media + the AFC response
(https://www.afc.com.au/news/932444/club-statement).
Some of the alleged abuse went so far as to call him "an ugly West Coast reject".
Ouch! :rolleyes:
Lycett has commented:
" "Footy is a physical game, but I acknowledge my tackle on Ned McHenry last night overstepped the mark and will be dealt with at the AFL Tribunal," he wrote. "I truly hope he's OK."
"However the abuse that has followed has been outrageous. People should take a breath and reflect before posting."
(https://wwos.nine.com.au/afl/scott-...y-tackle/d1859503-ba90-42c6-b80e-7ed70d9f443c)

My two bobs' worth --- and I have reflected, before posting --- I didn't see any apology in there, Scott, or are you waiting for Ned to stop seeing stars so you can apologise face-to-face? You're 203cms and 98Kgs. McHenry 179cms and 73Kgs.
Was it not enough to tackle McHenry, without rag-dolling his scone into the ground? Have any of your teammates been thrown around like that? How'd you feel about that, at the time?
The social media abuse has been 'outrageous'? Sticks and stones, mate. Grow a pair.
The physical abuse you inflicted on McHenry caused actual harm/damage, took him out of the game which you played all of and might have long-term consequences.
Oh, and thank your lucky stars --- on a footy field, what you did might get you a 2-3 match ban. Off the field, your action on McHenry would be considered an assault (well, 'alleged'), with potentially far worse consequences; you weak, bullying, cowardly grub.
 
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Ozzie

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Lay him in the SANFL reserves. Can't mark, can't kick
Just went through the playing list. It makes for poor reading.
Available:
Chayce Jones
Fischer McAsey
Jackson Hately
Brayden Cook
Billy Frampton
Josh Worrell
Nick Murray
James Borlase
Ronin O'Connor
Ben Davis
Tariek Newchurch
Kieran Strachan
Luke Pedlar
Of these 5 are not ready. 8 available. Of the available, 3 have 1 game between them.

Injured:
Lachlan Murphy
Matt Crouch
Daniel Talia
Mitchell Hinge
Shane McAdam
Ned McHenry
Tom Lynch
Wayne Milera
Lachlan Gollant
This amounts to 9 injured. Of those, 2 are season ending, The rest between 2 weeks to 5 calling it conservatively.

We are in deep doo dah and no amount of whining and bytching will change it.

Ps. I grabbed your post to say this, so don't get upset with me.
 

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