Greatest Dynasty of the 21st century - Lions vs Cats vs Hawks vs Tigers

[PrinceCharles]

Just waiting for the Blues & Bombers to bombard thread with their "we are the best we have 16 flags". Even though some prehistoric flags were won during 6 & 8 team round robin comps during the wars ect. Any flag in the AFL era holds way more value in my opinion.

In saying this my 1 to 4 by degree of difficulty.

1. Brisbane (won 3 traveling to the MCG against MCG tenants)
2. Hawks (won 3 against non-VIC teams) however won 3 in a row.
3. Richmond (won 2 in a row) including one out of their suitcases all year.
4. Geelong. Probably the most strongest side of them all but didn't capitalise their dominance. Should of won 4 or 5.

Who does total number of flags have to do with a 'dynasty' discussion of the 21st century?

 

[dean33]

Geelong for me.

-Largest grand final win.
-21-1 season was unreal despite not winning the Grand Final
-Won all their 3 premierships without losing a final while all of Brisbane, Hawthorn and Richmond needed 2nd chances during the finals to win their 3.
- Had tougher contenders in St Kilda, Collingwood and the Bulldogs during their era

Geelong never had to travel and win interstate in any of their finals.

 

[PhatBoy]

Geelong never had to travel and win interstate in any of their finals.

That’s what happens when you finish in first or second and flog basically anyone anywhere and with a 21-4 record interstate something tells me we’d have been ok

 

[Joey longshadow]

Lions,Cats and Hawks have had there day..
Our day ain't over with yet

 

[Blackas87]

Geelong never had to travel and win interstate in any of their finals.

Thats because they earned home finals.

 

[Pessimistic]

Probably the Lions, if you conveniently over look the wooden spoon

but in a bigfooty vote, there’s enough triggering between cats hawks and lions posters to see Brisbane get a donkey vote too

 

[dean33]

Thats because they earned home finals.

They never won one like we did this year, the most challenging year in the games history.
*Toughest ever

 

[jc12]

richmond clearly number 1, the covid flag we won away from home and in hubs proves we are the best, multiple teams put in tough conditions relatively away from home and with some top teams able to play at home and sleep in their beds for most of the season, yet we proved we are the toughest out of all them by being the most mentally tough and skilful by winning this flag, which holds a lot of weight, then you add to the fact we did it back to back, and have won 3 out of 4 years with a 1st place finish in 2018. prior to this year we were behind those 3 clubs, this win shoots us to the top and thus the GOAT

we also win more often than not when it matters, we win big in finals and in grand finals if you look at the margins, which is of course what counts

 

[Catsnlakers]

They never won one like we did this year, the most challenging year in the games history.
*Toughest ever

Two of our 3 flags come against teams who were 22-2 leading into the GF.....So we did have a reasonable challenge I would say.

 

[My Cotchin Rules]

It’s an opinion thing and I’m fine with that and I’m not like offended or something that you’ve ranked us fourth, but does ‘what they SHOULD have achieved’ actually take away from what they achieved?

Ie. say St George in the rugby league who won 11 in a row were actually minor premiers the 3 years after, would they get marked down for not doing as well as they actually should have?

Yeah that's a fair call. Geelong did lose an unloseable GF in 2008.
To be honest its a really hard one. As there is so many of these alternative threads I actually had Geelong as 2nd in a previous thread but got eaten alive by Hawk supporters.
They made some fair points one being that it's hard enough to win one but three in a row is a mighty effort.
Can make a case that Richmond's opponents in 17 & 19 were non Vic & weaker than the sides the cats faced so it makes it more difficult to pick & only put Tigers slightly ahead due to the B2B.
Out of all teams cats are the most successful long term they have been bloody up since the heartstopping SF lose to Sydney in 2005, that's 15 years!! Hawks & Lions dropped off dramatically after their runs.
Richmond still has time for more success (I hope) so will be interesting in a few years.

 

[Blackas87]

They never won one like we did this year, the most challenging year in the games history.
*Toughest ever

So Richmond’s opponents this year had to face challengers this year? Teams were weaker than usual this year?

Just compare the seasons, Geelong were a powerhouse during a strong era, Richmond best team in a weak era
Geelong ..........................Richmond
07, 18-4, 152.8%. 1st.......17, 15-7, 118.3%. 3rd
08, 21-1, 161.8%. 1st.......18, 18-4, 136.2%. 1st
09, 18-4, 127.4%. 2nd......19, 16-6, 113.7%. 3rd
10, 17-5, 147.9%. 2nd......20, 12-1-4, 129.9%. 3rd
11, 19-3, 157.4% 2nd

 

[My Cotchin Rules]

So Richmond’s opponents this year had to face challengers this year? Teams were weaker than usual this year?

Just compare the seasons, Geelong were a powerhouse during a strong era, Richmond best team in a weak era
Geelong ..........................Richmond
07, 18-4, 152.8%. 1st.......17, 15-7, 118.3%. 3rd
08, 21-1, 161.8%. 1st.......18, 18-4, 136.2%. 1st
09, 18-4, 127.4%. 2nd......19, 16-6, 113.7%. 3rd
10, 17-5, 147.9%. 2nd......20, 12-1-4, 129.9%. 3rd
11, 19-3, 157.4% 2nd

Hard to argue with those stats. Maybe 2020 might be one of, it not the hardest ever to win but Cats also made the GF aswell. However when years are broken down overall Cats much more successful no argument there. As I said previously, Tigers hopefully have more left in the tank.

 

[PhatBoy]

They never won one like we did this year, the most challenging year in the games history.
*Toughest ever

Yeah real sorry about that. What we should have done is deliberately finish 3rd or 4th, bribe umpires to make sure 2 interstate sides finish first or second, so in a decade some deranged forum poster could overlook that the reason we didn’t beat anyone interstate in finals is because we won so many games in the qualifying period that we never had to, and mathematically if we ever did have to, there was an 84 per cent chance mathematically that we would have flogged them anyway

 

[Linda Lovelace]

You're only as good as your opposition and Geelong simply had to contend with the best teams.

St Kilda 09 and Collingwood 2011 had more dominant years than almost any premiership team does. Brisbane had Essendon 2001 certainly but then played two weak Collingwood teams (that would have been obliterated by the 2010-2011 teams), and Hawthorn had to split flags with a good Sydney side, but Sydney was never a dominant home and away team like St Kilda 09 or Collingwood 2011. The Tigers faced weak opposition.

Geelong got a weak year in 2007 but was then competing against teams like Hawthorn, St Kilda, Collingwood, and even a pretty quality Dogs outfit. It's frankly not even close in terms of opposition.

 

[Tiger08]

I'd go..

Lions
Hawks
Tigers
Cats

Lions actually beat another what should have been a dynasty team in 99-01 Essendon.. while playing interstate.

 

[Xtreme]

We have been lucky enough as footy fanatics to have witnessed four dynasties during the 21st century so far.

Which is the greatest dynasty out of the four is up for debate though and an argument can be made for any of the dynasties to be the greatest.

You've been back to back premiers for a week... enough is enough

Hawthorn wins any dynasty debate

 

[Rasha]

3 in a row is harder than 3 in 4 or 3 in 5

Hawks and Lions both played off in 4 straight grand finals and won 3

Cats played in 3 straight but not 4 and couldn't go back to back

Tigers have played in two straight and gone back to back but couldn't even play in 3 in a row

Never mind the fact that we had the same coach and core in 2008 as we had in 2012-2015

Lions and Hawks so far the only teams that have won three in a row in the AFL era, if you win next year then we can talk

Hawthorn popped up for a year (2008) and slid back into mediocrity.
If you count 2008 with their 2013-15 dynasty it would be like if the Bulldogs were to three peat 2021-23 and count 2016 with their 2021-23 dynasty.

We win next year and there isn't even a debate in regards to the greatest dynasty of the 21st century.

 

[Pessimistic]

You're only as good as your opposition and Geelong simply had to contend with the best teams.

St Kilda 09 and Collingwood 2011 had more dominant years than almost any premiership team does. Brisbane had Essendon 2001 certainly but then played two weak Collingwood teams (that would have been obliterated by the 2010-2011 teams), and Hawthorn had to split flags with a good Sydney side, but Sydney was never a dominant home and away team like St Kilda 09 or Collingwood 2011. The Tigers faced weak opposition.

Geelong got a weak year in 2007 but was then competing against teams like Hawthorn, St Kilda, Collingwood, and even a pretty quality Dogs outfit. It's frankly not even close in terms of opposition.

‘yet no mention of the 08 premiers?

 

[Gralin]

Hawthorn popped up for a year (2008) and slid back into mediocrity.
If you count 2008 with their 2013-15 dynasty it would be like if the Bulldogs were to three peat 2021-23 and count 2016 with their 2021-23 dynasty.

We win next year and there isn't even a debate in regards to the greatest dynasty of the 21st century.

If the dogs go again with the same coach and same core why wouldn't you count it?

Cats get to count 2007-2011, Hawks played in a grand final in 2012 which is the same period as 2007-2011 for the cats

We played in a prelim in 2011 and didn't make the grand final same as the cats in 2010

Clarko, Hodge, Mitchell, Franklin, Guerra, Roughead, Riolo, Birchall, Sewell and Lewis from 2008 were there in 2013 as well.

 

[Pessimistic]

Hawthorn popped up for a year (2008) and slid back into mediocrity.
If you count 2008 with their 2013-15 dynasty it would be like if the Bulldogs were to three peat 2021-23 and count 2016 with their 2021-23 dynasty.

We win next year and there isn't even a debate in regards to the greatest dynasty of the 21st century.

....or the 01-03 premiers winning a SPOON in 1998?

 

[dean33]

Yeah real sorry about that. What we should have done is deliberately finish 3rd or 4th, bribe umpires to make sure 2 interstate sides finish first or second, so in a decade some deranged forum poster could overlook that the reason we didn’t beat anyone interstate in finals is because we won so many games in the qualifying period that we never had to, and mathematically if we ever did have to, there was an 84 per cent chance mathematically that we would have flogged them anyway

2007 you beat a 6th place Collingwood in the prelim by 5 points, hardly powerhouse result there.
Cats were a great side although never good enough to go back2back and were eliminated first week of the finals the following year after winning their 3rd to end their era.
I think it comes down to if last weeks win for the Tigers was their last of this era or just one of.
If there are more to come than there can be no doubt as to which team really sits alone as the greatest.

 

[PhatBoy]

2007 you beat a 6th place Collingwood in the prelim by 5 points, hardly powerhouse result there.
Cats were a great side although never good enough to go back2back and were eliminated first week of the finals the following year after winning their 3rd to end their era.
I think it comes down to if last weeks win for the Tigers was their last of this era or just one of.
If there are more to come than there can be no doubt as to which team really sits alone as the greatest.

Oh well if we only beat Collingwood by 5 in one final on their home ground I guess the 225 points worth of wins either side of that in our other two finals don’t count.
Overall it’s debatable if we even deserved the premiership that year after staggering across the line all through the finals.

 

[Rasha]

....or the 01-03 premiers winning a SPOON in 1998?

2001-03 premiers crashed and burned hard after the 2004 grand final loss too.
2013-15 premiers have crashed and burned hard since the 2016 semi final exit.

Geelong have Brisbane and Hawthorn covered when it comes to longevity and the jury is obviously still out on us.
Geelong are basically like Sydney regarding longevity except more successful.

 

[Blackas87]

Hard to argue with those stats. Maybe 2020 might be one of, it not the hardest ever to win but Cats also made the GF aswell. However when years are broken down overall Cats much more successful no argument there. As I said previously, Tigers hopefully have more left in the tank.

Someone was going to win this year. It doesn’t mean they were a better premier than premiers of previous years, they were just the premier in a tough year for everyone.

Even if Richmond win another, they don’t pass Geelong for me. That Geelong team was a powerhouse.

2009 they beat the 20-2 155.7% Saints
2011 they beat the 20-2 167..7% Magpies, Pies lost 3 games this year, all to Geelong.

Pies and Saints played off in the 2010 Grand Final. Collingwood and the Saints were power sides in their own right. Richmond hasn’t had to deal with challengers of this strength.

 

[My Cotchin Rules]

Someone was going to win this year. It doesn’t mean they were a better premier than premiers of previous years, they were just the premier in a tough year for everyone.

Even if Richmond win another, they don’t pass Geelong for me. That Geelong team was a powerhouse.

2009 they beat the 20-2 155.7% Saints
2011 they beat the 20-2 167..7% Magpies, Pies lost 3 games this year, all to Geelong.

Pies and Saints played off in the 2010 Grand Final. Collingwood and the Saints were power sides in their own right. Richmond hasn’t had to deal with challengers of this strength.

But Adelaide had the power stance they must have been mighty powerful! Not our fault they shat the bed on the big day