Has Lance Franklin surpassed Wayne Carey as the greatest key forward of the modern era?

[Snake_Baker]

Ablett senior was the most individually gifted footballer I have ever seen, closely followed by Malcolm Blight.

Carey was not far off him in regards to natural skills, but where he comfortably surpasses Ablett is with football smarts. Wayne made all the players around him much better players, whereas Ablett just did it himself. If Ablett had Carey's smarts, Geelong would have won 3 premierships.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Carey was as good below his knees as Buddy, if not better. Out running Carey I agree with, that’s where Buddy has the advantage and also probably in agility; despite Carey being very agile for his build, Buddy is a freak. But it’s here that I think of Gary Ablett - crazy burst of speed, very powerful player, more freakish in skillset than either Buddy or Carey and more goals than both and yet still, most rate Carey better than him.

A fair opinion... in an opinion based thread.

I don't rate Gary Snr as highly as others do... among the immortals. I obviously also didn't rate Carey as highly as others... even during his career i held that view.... i remember reading the paper every weekend and seeing W. Carey.... 20 possession, 10 marks, 2 goals.... he was so consistent... but i came up watching Plugger and Bung and wanted a bit more.

But i think i can stand by the observations that:
- Carey didn't have the extent of Buddy's athletic and physical dominance over his opponents. Not saying that Carey didn't enjoy that dominance, but on most days Buddy has been defended by a player who is much smaller or much slower and that the difference is so glaring.

- Carey was as good below his knees as Buddy in some ways... trapping the ball, creating space, reacting to a marking contest, lateral movement..... but Buddy had that bit extra, mainly due to his speed and his height and his foot work.... remember most of Buddy's "1000" goals were kicked this way. His 2008 season goals, now on Youtube, are a freak show of his trapping the spilled ball and leaving his defender next to useless.


The fact Buddy has had a better single season than Carey... and he has had greater longevity.. is not without import.

The contest is closer than some on here want to believe.

 

[Monkey King]

But i think i can stand by the observations that:
- Carey didn't have the extent of Buddy's athletic and physical dominance over his opponents.

- Carey was as good below his knees as Buddy in some ways...

Athletic dominance yes. Physical dominance? I don’t think so. I mean Buddy just flailed forward after being out positioned by Hurn FFS. Carey had a rare physical dominance Buddy has yet to match.

Carey was better below his knees is some ways, Buddy better in others.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Athletic dominance yes. Physical dominance? I don’t think so. I mean Buddy just flailed forward after being out positioned by Hurn FFS. Carey had a rare physical dominance Buddy has yet to match.

Carey was better below his knees is some ways, Buddy better in others.

Carey's strength in the marking contest was there (even if it was not extreme dominance in strength like Plugger or Dunstall). Carey often read it better most of the time, or could jump higher.... and he definitely had most players covered for strength in the marking contest.... especially Bud. And he had better hands. His pack marks were inspirational.

But Buddy has never had strength in the marking contest....yet you still can't play a small on him. Buddy has strength over the ground ball... he bowls people over like they are auskickers and he can't be pushed off his line .... plus his height and speed combined converging on the ground ball.... or the spilled mark...

Carey did not have a weakness.... and Buddy does..... but Bud has a few areas where he turns it up to 11.

haha.... who knows really?.... but personally i wouldn't put the decision down to Hurn having a few good moments on a 32 year old, allegedly injured, buddy.

 

[Monkey King]

haha.... who knows really?.... but personally i wouldn't put the decision down to Hurn having a few good moments on a 32 year old, allegedly injured, buddy.

I put the decision down to having seen quite a lot of both players.

 

[woota]

- Carey didn't have the extent of Buddy's athletic and physical dominance over his opponents.

LMAO. Yeah, a guy known for running back with the flight of the ball and leaping sideways over the top of packs to take a mark, keeping his direct opponent out of the marking contest with one arm while using his other arm to mark the ball one-handed, doesn't have the physical dominance as Franklin, a 196 cm forward who can't even take a pack mark and falls over campaigning for a free kick when his arm is brushed by a defender.

Seriously, it's an insult to Carey to even try to compare their physical dominance on a football field.

 

[PhatBoy]

Ablett senior was the most individually gifted footballer I have ever seen, closely followed by Malcolm Blight.

Carey was not far off him in regards to natural skills, but where he comfortably surpasses Ablett is with football smarts. Wayne made all the players around him much better players, whereas Ablett just did it himself. If Ablett had Carey's smarts, Geelong would have won 3 premierships.

No, if Ablett was Chris Langford we would have won 3 premierships.

Pretty widely acknowledged that defence was our downfall and the evidence for that is pretty clear.

 

[The Mongrel Punt]

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl/2018/6/16/has-buddy-franklin-gone-past-wayne-carey

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Snake_Baker]

"HB Meyers" at "The Mongrel Punt" blog has settled the matter.

Close the thread now mods.

 

[Tbonefreo]

Gotta say Carey was easily the better footballer. Few good stories float around wagga about Duck

 

[Brutalitops]

"HB Meyers" at "The Mongrel Punt" blog has settled the matter.

Close the thread now mods.

You should read the article. All he really says is that its closer than some are prepared to admit and gives a fair chunk of evidence to both sides of the argument.

Its actually not a bad read at all.

 

[Val Keating]

I wonder what Buddy’s coach thinks?

That goes for Clarkson too

 

[EnricoPalazzo]

You should read the article. All he really says is that its closer than some are prepared to admit and gives a fair chunk of evidence to both sides of the argument.

Its actually not a bad read at all.

Agreed.
It kind of gives me a better appreciation for what we have right now in Franklin. Special talent

 

[Elite Master]

No at age 31 Carey had a year off after shagging his vice captains missus, so he wouldn’t of kicked s**t all, he was basically done

Buddy had basically done more when he finished at hawthorn let’s be honest. Carey played in a tailored game style high scoring error and averaged less goals a game

No shame to be passed by Bud, From 93-2000 Carey had 7 great years well done

Buddy has had 11 great years and counting

Buddy at 31 is better than Carey was at 30 in his last season for North, and at 32/33 in his Adelaide years, but that's about as far as it goes.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

They're starting to nibble.

 

[The Gong]

They're starting to nibble.

Carey has the benefit of sentimentality. When Buddy has been retired for 10 years then I think he'll be given that same level of idolatry and be considered on par or better than Carey.

 

[RUNVS]

THe thing is, a players reputation will always get higher after they retire, at least most of the time. People forget the so-so matches those players played and will only remember the great ones.

 

[tigertigertiger]

Jack R surpassed both

 

[RUNVS]

Jack R surpassed both

In the minds of Richmond supporters only.

 

[JackFlash]

Carey has the benefit of sentimentality. When Buddy has been retired for 10 years then I think he'll be given that same level of idolatry and be considered on par or better than Carey.

You really have to stop sniffing the rug cleaning fluid....

 

[juss]

Jack R surpassed both

This man does not represent us lol

 

[PhatBoy]

THe thing is, a players reputation will always get higher after they retire, at least most of the time. People forget the so-so matches those players played and will only remember the great ones.

On the flip side, Franklin is one of the few players that will benefit from currency rather than hindsight because the other players of his generation are so vastly inferior.

In Carey's era there were, at any given time, more than half a dozen other forwards who would be the second best in the competition nowadays (behind Buddy obviously). Heck, Carey's own team had a Coleman medalist in it playing second fiddle to Carey.
Ablett Sr played alongside an 80 goal forward in Brownless. Sumich, Modra, Kernahan, Lloyd, Salmon at times, Minton-Connell for a short time, Lockett and Loewe, Dunstall, Jakovich briefly, Roger Merrett, Richo.

From time to time during Buddy's career players have risen - Roughead and Kennedy are the obvious ones, the Riewoldts, Pavlich and Brown but the second tier of forwards behind the number one has largely been very inferior.

That of course doesn't make buddy a better or worse player, but it does accentuate his standing in the game.

 

[juss]

There are certainly things that Buddy and Carey excelled at more than the other, Carey's not sprinting down the wing away from opponents and slotting goals from the boundary or popping them from 65 meters like Buddy can, while Buddy's not taking big pack marks and crashing packs like Carey can.

Different skillsets, strengths and weaknesses, but Carey overall still better for mine.

 

[Dazb86]

Absolute freak. If he was better at taking clunks in packs he'd probably be the best to ever play.

 

[RUNVS]

On the flip side, Franklin is one of the few players that will benefit from currency rather than hindsight because the other players of his generation are so vastly inferior.

In Carey's era there were, at any given time, more than half a dozen other forwards who would be the second best in the competition nowadays (behind Buddy obviously). Heck, Carey's own team had a Coleman medalist in it playing second fiddle to Carey.
Ablett Sr played alongside an 80 goal forward in Brownless. Sumich, Modra, Kernahan, Lloyd, Salmon at times, Minton-Connell for a short time, Lockett and Loewe, Dunstall, Jakovich briefly, Roger Merrett, Richo.

From time to time during Buddy's career players have risen - Roughead and Kennedy are the obvious ones, the Riewoldts, Pavlich and Brown but the second tier of forwards behind the number one has largely been very inferior.

That of course doesn't make buddy a better or worse player, but it does accentuate his standing in the game.

It is a good point. Ask 1000 football fans who was the best key forward of the 80's or 90's you will get about 8 different answers, probably with no one player emerging on top at least in any sort of conclusive way. Ask 1000 football fans to list the best key forward of the 2000's and 2010's and I am willing to bet 900 of them would say Buddy.