News Izak Rankine, Gold coast holding Rankine to Ransom- #FreeIzak

[Scorpus]

Mod note:

Opposition posters making outlandish trade suggestions to bait the Crows board will be considered trolls and dealt with in the usual manner

No one wants a repeat of the Gibbs thread

 

[Brett Cummings]

See, you have the same mistaken thought on ability comparisons. It’s not about that. At all. It’s about poor list management which continues to be poor.

I agree, our list management has been garbage the last few years. reid should of been sacked after the brad crouch situation.

 

[Gtowncrow]

Then we'll agree to disagree Keays is 24, Lyons is 29.

Rankine 3 years in to his AFL career and is spinning his wheels still in "potential" mode.

Can someone with access to direct player comparison data for 2021 do a Keays Laird comparison. The club championship was very close and AFL fantasy had them similar at the end of the season as well.
Is Keays actually so bad he deserves to become a BF whipping boy?

 

[Mutineer]

Can someone with access to direct player comparison data for 2021 do a Keays Laird comparison. The club championship was very close and AFL fantasy had them similar at the end of the season as well.
Is Keays actually so bad he deserves to become a BF whipping boy?

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Ben Keays and Rory Laird AFL Stats Comparison

Ben Keays and Rory Laird AFL Stats Comparison.

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[Bearded Clam]

the overrating of keays on this board is just simply ludicrous. hes a battler, he gives 100%, he’s definately a great club man if you listen to what nicksy and the other coaches and guys like Roo say about him.. but.. his skills are *n terrible. thats just a basic fact. our midfield is undoubtably one of the worst in the comp and he’s a huge cog in it.

if, as was the premise of the original comment, keays was willing/wanted to go to the suns and the suns were willing to take him in a straight trade for Rankine (hypothetical of course) and the crows said “no thanks”.. i dont think I’d be able to support the club/team any longer.

it would instantly be the stupidest thing any club in the history of the AFL would've ever done.

we could replace Keays in an instant. generational talent like Rankine, even though he’s not lived up to it yet, is as rare as hens teeth. he’s had a rocky start to his career with injury and arguably hasnt been played to his strengths by the Suns but Rankine will come good and when he does I hope its in a crows guernsey.

 

[BunjiMac]

the overrating of keays on this board is just simply ludicrous. hes a battler, he gives 100%, he’s definately a great club man if you listen to what nicksy and the other coaches and guys like Roo say about him.. but.. his skills are fu**n terrible. thats just a basic fact. our midfield is undoubtably one of the worst in the comp and he’s a huge cog in it.

if, as was the premise of the original comment, keays was willing/wanted to go to the suns and the suns were willing to take him in a straight trade for Rankine (hypothetical of course) and the crows said “no thanks”.. i dont think I’d be able to support the club/team any longer.

it would instantly be the stupidest thing any club in the history of the AFL would've ever done.

we could replace Keays in an instant. generational talent like Rankine, even though he’s not lived up to it yet, is as rare as hens teeth. he’s had a rocky start to his career with injury and arguably hasnt been played to his strengths by the Suns but Rankine will come good and when he does I hope its in a crows guernsey.

Glad someone read and understood what I actually wrote.

 

[Amacca 23]

Can someone with access to direct player comparison data for 2021 do a Keays Laird comparison. The club championship was very close and AFL fantasy had them similar at the end of the season as well.
Is Keays actually so bad he deserves to become a BF whipping boy?

Nope itsjust dickheads who think they know more than theclub once again maybe they should give up their day jobs and become recruiters since they know it all god then we would be actually screwed

 

[Ramify]

Can someone with access to direct player comparison data for 2021 do a Keays Laird comparison. The club championship was very close and AFL fantasy had them similar at the end of the season as well.
Is Keays actually so bad he deserves to become a BF whipping boy?

No, he looks way more Unco than he actually is but when he misses a target by foot,he really misses a target by foot which stands out..
Could easily be our Matt Priddis.
I think the bigger issue is the Sloane, Laird, Keays combo and out of those three,he was nowhere near the worst this year but still, we should only be playing one of them as starting mid at a time.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Can someone with access to direct player comparison data for 2021 do a Keays Laird comparison. The club championship was very close and AFL fantasy had them similar at the end of the season as well.
Is Keays actually so bad he deserves to become a BF whipping boy?

There‘s only one comparison that needs to be made..

Sloane, Laird, keays were our go to mids for most of the year. the combo of the three got about 80% of the midfield/CB‘s in every game they played.

and the results was we only won 7 games. our defensive lines are pretty solid, our forward line has some talent and was still kicking goals even with some of the most horrifyingly poor delivery you have ever witnessed, we’ve got some good drive of half back and one of the comps best wingmen. it was and is our main midfield combo that is just woeful.. and keays, laird and sloane lead that.

* their stats.. just compare them with the leading three mids at any of the top 8 clubs and look at where we are on the ladder ffs.

we can love em as footballers and great club men, and they are, but we seem to overrate the * out of them because they accumulate big numbers in the middle.. problem is, they just aren't damaging with ball in hand.. if they were, given the amount of the ball they get.. we’d be playing finals.

laird gets near on 40 possessions a game.. and yet there’s probably more than a dozen or so other midfielders in the comp i’d pick in a team before him.

they are not the solution. moving forward we need just one of them attending the CB’s at any one time teamed up with guys like Shoenberg, Pedlar, berry, our new draftees and anyone else we get lucky and snag in the trade period. Hell, throw Chayce Jones in there for a few CB’s and some midfield minutes too starting round 1 next year.. way better skills and class in jones, hopefully his confidence issues are now a thing of the past.

anything but Sloane/laird/keays…

 

[Gtowncrow]

There‘s only one comparison that needs to be made..

Sloane, Laird, keays were our go to mids for most of the year. the combo of the three got about 80% of the midfield/CB‘s in every game they played.

and the results was we only won 7 games. our defensive lines are pretty solid, our forward line has some talent and was still kicking goals even with some of the most horrifyingly poor delivery you have ever witnessed, we’ve got some good drive of half back and one of the comps best wingmen. it was and is our main midfield combo that is just woeful.. and keays, laird and sloane lead that.

fu** their stats.. just compare them with the leading three mids at any of the top 8 clubs and look at where we are on the ladder ffs.

we can love em as footballers and great club men, and they are, but we seem to overrate the fu** out of them because they accumulate big numbers in the middle.. problem is, they just aren't damaging with ball in hand.. if they were, given the amount of the ball they get.. we’d be playing finals.

laird gets near on 40 possessions a game.. and yet there’s probably more than a dozen or so other midfielders in the comp i’d pick in a team before him.

they are not the solution. moving forward we need just one of them attending the CB’s at any one time teamed up with guys like Shoenberg, Pedlar, berry, our new draftees and anyone else we get lucky and snag in the trade period. Hell, throw Chayce Jones in there for a few CB’s and some midfield minutes too starting round 1 next year.. way better skills and class in jones, hopefully his confidence issues are now a thing of the past.

anything but Sloane/laird/keays…

Gee... I only asked for a statistical comparison between for two players for a completely unrelated issue to your comments.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Gee... I only asked for a statistical comparison between for two players for a completely unrelated issue to your comments.

apologies Gtown.. went of on a tangent on ya then!..then again, I was sort of responding to the overall conversation on the last page or so as a whole.. not just specifically to your comment.

 

[Gtowncrow]

apologies Gtown.. went of on a tangent on ya then!..then again, I was sort of responding to the overall conversation on the last page or so as a whole.. not just specifically to your comment.

Apology accepted. Love the passion and for what it's worth, you make many sensible points.

 

[Red mist]

apologies Gtown.. went of on a tangent on ya then!..then again, I was sort of responding to the overall conversation on the last page or so as a whole.. not just specifically to your comment.

So Rankine isn’t a hard worker hey

 

[Bearded Clam]

So Rankine isn’t a hard worker hey

look.. theres no doubt Izak has underperformed given the expectations and what he showed as a16 and 17 year old..

but it would be silly to write him off at this point.. we know absolutely nothing about his current situation.. maybe he has off field issues going on behind the scenes, maybe he has issues with dew, maybe he has issues with some of his team mates.. maybe he’s just lazy and his current form and performance is entirely of his own making.. who knows.. maybe its a confidence thing/ weight of expectations issue.

i just think a return home and a fresh start would make a big difference .. but what is undeniable is is that the kid is a freakish talent. he’ll come good.

 

[Jcpdragonx]

There‘s only one comparison that needs to be made..

Sloane, Laird, keays were our go to mids for most of the year. the combo of the three got about 80% of the midfield/CB‘s in every game they played.

and the results was we only won 7 games. our defensive lines are pretty solid, our forward line has some talent and was still kicking goals even with some of the most horrifyingly poor delivery you have ever witnessed, we’ve got some good drive of half back and one of the comps best wingmen. it was and is our main midfield combo that is just woeful.. and keays, laird and sloane lead that.

fu** their stats.. just compare them with the leading three mids at any of the top 8 clubs and look at where we are on the ladder ffs.

we can love em as footballers and great club men, and they are, but we seem to overrate the fu** out of them because they accumulate big numbers in the middle.. problem is, they just aren't damaging with ball in hand.. if they were, given the amount of the ball they get.. we’d be playing finals.

laird gets near on 40 possessions a game.. and yet there’s probably more than a dozen or so other midfielders in the comp i’d pick in a team before him.

they are not the solution. moving forward we need just one of them attending the CB’s at any one time teamed up with guys like Shoenberg, Pedlar, berry, our new draftees and anyone else we get lucky and snag in the trade period. Hell, throw Chayce Jones in there for a few CB’s and some midfield minutes too starting round 1 next year.. way better skills and class in jones, hopefully his confidence issues are now a thing of the past.

anything but Sloane/laird/keays…

Basically you put entire blame on the midfield. Chayce Jones has been tried in 10 different roles, I dont want to see him at a centre bounce for 3 years.

Our forward line was a far bigger problem than the midfield. We won a few games and got close to top clubs whilst at the bottom of our rebuild, we couldnt kick a score. Smalls sucks, talls suck right now until they develop, Walker carried a few games. Keays can rotate on a wing and hf, his mid time may take a small cut once midfield youth develops. Keays has shown he knows how to improve his game at AFL level while Rankine has not either.]

Having both of these guys in the team is still important, Keays brings pace and spread and is a good defensive mid like Laird. if he can learn to handball instead of launch inside 50, which is what Danger did in 2018 (champion data best rated year of all time) then he can become more effective.

 

[Golumless]

Basically you put entire blame on the midfield. Chayce Jones has been tried in 10 different roles, I dont want to see him at a centre bounce for 3 years.

Our forward line was a far bigger problem than the midfield. We won a few games and got close to top clubs whilst at the bottom of our rebuild, we couldnt kick a score. Smalls sucks, talls suck right now until they develop, Walker carried a few games. Keays can rotate on a wing and hf, his mid time may take a small cut once midfield youth develops. Keays has shown he knows how to improve his game at AFL level while Rankine has not either.]

Having both of these guys in the team is still important, Keays brings pace and spread and is a good defensive mid like Laird. if he can learn to handball instead of launch inside 50, which is what Danger did in 2018 (champion data best rated year of all time) then he can become more effective.

3 years is excessive for Chayce. 1 maybe, but really, if he's confident and playing good football in the middle of 2022, I'd be tempted to see how it goes in the midfield. Too long, and you risk making a player a bit too valuable in a peripheral role to warrant a move, and the value of Chayce skillset making it in our midfield set up far outweighs what he could do in defence. We're also in a position where we do need to gamble a bit with our youth. Especially one where we do have coverage with Parnell.

Now, forward line being a far bigger problem than our midfield is certainly a take. It's a rebuilding line, but one in a pretty good place. You've got your talisman going forward in Thilthorpe. You've got an experienced hand in Tex and you've got a few other interesting pieces in Gollant, Fog and McHenry, all who are well on the way to ending up as valuable role players (if not more for Gollant). It really just needs a solid two-way small forward to round it out as well as some preseasons/development/etc, but we're in a good position at the moment to have a few dice rolls at it. Or Newchurch could figure s**t out, that'd be handy.

On the other hand, that midfield is a lot less developed. Laird is a solid player. Keays is an interesting one because he certainly has a place in this team post-rebuild, however, seeing its a contract year, it's certainly possible we might be parting ways with a really good year from Ben. Sloane is closer to being done and only Schoenberg has so far looked like stepping up. Right now, it really is our problem area entering 2022, though it certainly could change quickly.

 

[Sanders]

If that was seriously the proposition, ie Keays for Rankine, and assuming both wanted to go, because it's pointless to consider it they don't, then id guarantee every AFL team would do that trade.

Unfortunately, that trade will never be proposed as GC would want much more.

Rankine has done a great job tanking his value in the second half of the season

there would be a lot of teams who wouldn’t touch him at any price.

talent isn’t the problem

I’d say we are one of the few teams that might be interested. Attitude & contract are huge red flags right now

we lack talent so can’t afford to be so picky

I’m a fan, and want us to trade for him but I can see the other side too

talent isn’t enough and right now that’s all he is

 

[Sanders]

Nope itsjust dickheads who think they know more than theclub once again maybe they should give up their day jobs and become recruiters since they know it all god then we would be actually screwed

are you related to Brett Cummings by any chance?

 

[Bearded Clam]

Basically you put entire blame on the midfield. Chayce Jones has been tried in 10 different roles, I dont want to see him at a centre bounce for 3 years.

Our forward line was a far bigger problem than the midfield. We won a few games and got close to top clubs whilst at the bottom of our rebuild, we couldnt kick a score. Smalls sucks, talls suck right now until they develop, Walker carried a few games. Keays can rotate on a wing and hf, his mid time may take a small cut once midfield youth develops. Keays has shown he knows how to improve his game at AFL level while Rankine has not either.]

Having both of these guys in the team is still important, Keays brings pace and spread and is a good defensive mid like Laird. if he can learn to handball instead of launch inside 50, which is what Danger did in 2018 (champion data best rated year of all time) then he can become more effective.

You quite obviously need to go back to round 1 and watch a replay of the entire season again..

The delivery into our forward line from our midfield was just disgusting.. easily worst in the league.

And yet Tex, if he hadnt have been a dick, wouldve gone close to a coleman.. Fog showed some great improvement especially in the second half of the season.. Thilthorpe will be a gun. We have gollant showing promise.. mcadam had a poor year but finished well in the last game and will hopefully take that into next season. We do need a small xfactor forward.

its our midfield that is the major issue.

 

[George Kramer]

You quite obviously need to go back to round 1 and watch a replay of the entire season again..

The delivery into our forward line from our midfield was just disgusting.. easily worst in the league.

And yet Tex, if he hadnt have been a dick, wouldve gone close to a coleman.. Fog showed some great improvement especially in the second half of the season.. Thilthorpe will be a gun. We have gollant showing promise.. mcadam had a poor year but finished well in the last game and will hopefully take that into next season. We do need a small xfactor forward.

its our midfield that is the major issue.

And yet it’s the area we placed less emphasis on development and we want to add Crouch to the mix? It’s a crazy backward approach, the quicker we improve our midfield the quicker the side improves. Less pressure on defence and improved delivery to the forwards.

 

[baldandbroke]

Does he?

AFL Stats - AFL.com.au

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Ben Keays and Jarryd Lyons AFL Stats Comparison

Ben Keays and Jarryd Lyons AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Even more obvious if you factor in the age difference:

Ben Keays and Jarryd Lyons AFL Stats Comparison

Ben Keays and Jarryd Lyons AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[Golumless]

And yet it’s the area we placed less emphasis on development and we want to add Crouch to the mix? It’s a crazy backward approach, the quicker we improve our midfield the quicker the side improves. Less pressure on defence and improved delivery to the forwards.

Chayce Jones 2020 season certainly was a lesson about trying to push kids into the midfield too quickly. One I suspect we've taken to heart.

Still, we've made some small steps to rectify it. Schoenberg is a preseason away, and we've pumped 19 games into Berry. Hopefully Pedlar health holds up next year.

 

[baldandbroke]

Rankine has done a great job tanking his value in the second half of the season there would be a lot of teams who wouldn’t touch him at any price.

talent isn’t the problem

I’d say we are one of the few teams that might be interested. Attitude & contract are huge red flags right now

we lack talent so can’t afford to be so picky

I’m a fan, and want us to trade for him but I can see the other side too

talent isn’t enough and right now that’s all he is

Good summary Sanders. Some people have short memories. He hasn't forgotten how to play, he just is not invested.

If we have a chance to grab him at the risk of paying too much, then we take that risk all day. Right now we can't afford not to.

Luko is going to be the one that we have to pay for in every way if we want to get him. Everyone sees what he brings. Ask any team out there if they are interested in a 195cm 21 year old that in 2021:

● Ranked 2nd in Total Metres Gained​

● Ranked 3rd in Metres Gained Per Game​

● Ranked 3rd in Total Marks​

● Ranked 5th in Marks Per Game​

● Ranked 8th in Total Kicks​

● Ranked 10th in Kicks Per Game​

● Ranked 12th in Total Rebound 50s​

● Ranked 16th in Rebound 50s Per Game​

 

[BunjiMac]

Rankine has done a great job tanking his value in the second half of the season

there would be a lot of teams who wouldn’t touch him at any price.

talent isn’t the problem

I’d say we are one of the few teams that might be interested. Attitude & contract are huge red flags right now

we lack talent so can’t afford to be so picky

I’m a fan, and want us to trade for him but I can see the other side too

talent isn’t enough and right now that’s all he is

It's probably the ideal time to take a calculated risk.

Ofcourse these risks don't pay off sometimes, but we still need to take them, especially when the value is at its lowest.

 

[George Kramer]

Chayce Jones 2020 season certainly was a lesson about trying to push kids into the midfield too quickly. One I suspect we've taken to heart.

Still, we've made some small steps to rectify it. Schoenberg is a preseason away, and we've pumped 19 games into Berry. Hopefully Pedlar health holds up next year.

Or maybe we stuffed Jones up by playing him up forward. His 2019 sanfl midfield form was good as was his only midfield AFL game in 2019. 2020 he lost all confidence and even sucked as a sanfl mid.

We did the same thing with Berry, stuck him up forward and his form got worse including his late sanfl form.

 

[BunjiMac]

Or maybe we sforward. His 2019 sanfl midfield form was good as was his only midfield AFL game in 2019. 2020 he lost all confidence and even sucked as a sanfl mid.

We did the same thing with Berry, stuck him up forward and his form got worse including his late sanfl form.

The problem with young players like Jones and our midfield is they lack a senior mentor who would show them the right things to do.

All our midfielders are similar accumulators with poor skills who hack the ball.

Jones was built different and there was no one there to show him how to use those weapons effectively in the AFL system. He was the odd one out and only saw a style that was alien to him, which confused him.

This led to confusing play which broke his confidence down and that was the end to the.midfield experiment for a while.

There is no doubt in my mind that if there was anyone with a similar skillset showing him the ropes then he would have thrived.