List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2021

[JR33]

Listening to Tom Mitchell on rsn this morning, would be flabbergasted if he is not playing for Hawthorn next year.

No contracted player will come out and admit that they are open to being traded. Let’s wait and see

 

[Dazza the Viking]

I’m happy to keep Titch, had B&F year, don’t see clubs giving up the farm for Titch, and that would be only reason I would even consider trading him

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I’m happy to keep Titch, had B&F year, don’t see clubs giving up the farm for Titch, and that would be only reason I would even consider trading him

And that is probably the most accurate summary of the situation.

Unlikely we will get fair value so he stays essentially.

 

[Stratton24]

Prepare for your flabber to be gasted.
He’s now the most valuable trade asset we have(clearly he was already) in our weakest part of the ground, with clubs asking the question.

His dad said he is staying, loves the Hawks and has been told we don't want to trade him.

 

[Lickmesocks]

His dad said he is staying

100% Clarko was staying as well.

 

[Stratton24]

No contracted player will come out and admit that they are open to being traded. Let’s wait and see

but they don't have to go into detail on how laughable the trade rumours are and how they will be playing for the Hawks in 2022 - would just dance around the question if planning to leave

 

[Coathanger]

There would only be one upside for me if Tom left. Not reading this Titch rubbish.
Does anyone call Sam or Seamus, SITCH?

 

[Dazza the Viking]

Just because I am feeling petty today - my original post on this topic back on page 179:

Losing Mitchell won't phase me - happy if he stays, happy if we get a good trade for him. Turns 29 next year. Absolutely solid player and can drive up the disposals and hit the scoreboard when at his best - but there are a good deal of midfielders who average 5-10 less touches than him that can deal out more damage on the field than Titch does. He's a dependable workhorse but we are crying out for X-factor. Lacking him in 2019 we still finished 9th with as many wins as losses which is a far better outcome than both 2020 and 2021 when he did play. So long as the return works for us I won't be worried about him departing.

Now every post I make in the continuing discussion doesn't have to be in essay form where I have to restate my original argument that overall so long as the trade works for us I won't be crying into my cereal if Mitchell plays elsewhere next year. It might turn out to be a bad trade if the youngsters we get turn out to be trade busts - but that's the dice you have to roll. I am a big fan of Tom Mitchell - if you want to get really forensic about this you can go find 'big fish' threads from 2016 where I say that Mitchell is the big signing that I want and would rather him even if it meant missing out on O'Meara at the time. But I am a bigger supporter of the Hawthorn Football Club than any one player - even if they are as prolific at racking up the touches. If trading Tom gets us the opportunity of being closer to the next flag by getting a strong first round pick then I would be happy with the club pulling that trigger.

As good as Mitchell is I don't think I am speaking out of line by suggesting that he doesn't have that x-factor that some players do. He's not going to turn a game on its head like a Dusty Martin type of player can. That's not a knock on Tom - very few players have that ability. But if that next midfielder is potentially sitting in the first round this year and we can get another stab at that player - then I am all in on doing that this year. If the trade offer is a second rounder for Tom then the offering team can kindly go fu** itself.

Our top 5 players average per disaposals in 2021
Mitchell 34.3
O’Meara 26.3
Wingard 22.3
Impey 22.1
Worpel 21.3

So which Midfielders are going to be more damaging than Mitchell, with an extra 5-10 disaposals, Maybe Wingard if we played him their permanently, O’Meara is about on he’s average, don’t see he’s average going up, Worpel might increase he’s disaposals, but him and O’Meara are average kicks

Nash might average 20 disaposals next year if we play him permanently in the Midfield, he also is an average kick, Shiels is also average kick

Mitchell was one the main reasons why we went so well in the last few weeks, back to he’s Brownlow form don’t know why supporters want to trade him out

So the supporters who want us to trade Mitchell, what do you think other clubs are going to cough up, it want to be very enticing

 

[Stratton24]

Prepare for your flabber to be gasted.
He’s now the most valuable trade asset we have(clearly he was already) in our weakest part of the ground, with clubs asking the question.

How about I donate $100 to the charity of your choice if Tom is traded - if he stays you donate $100 to the charity of my choice?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

So which Midfielders are going to be more damaging than Mitchell, with an extra 5-10 disaposals, Maybe Wingard if we played him their permanently, O’Meara is about on he’s average, don’t see he’s average going up, Worpel might increase he’s disaposals, but him and O’Meara are average kicks

Nash might average 20 disaposals next year if we play him permanently in the Midfield, he also is an average kick, Shiels is also average kick

Mitchell was one the main reasons why we went so well in the last few weeks, back to he’s Brownlow form don’t know why supporters want to trade him out

So the supporters who want us to trade Michell, what do think other clubs are going to cough up, it want to be very enticing

I didn't say any of our present midfielders would be more damaging than Mitchell. Once again - I am saying that the damaging midfielder with x-factor could be waiting in the draft and if we have another high end draft pick to use. I have said before also that I would only be content in trading Mitchell if we got a high first round pick for it.

We won't be competing for a flag or top 4 next year. Probably not even aiming for that in 2023. The next flag for our group will come when Mitchell is past 30 and in the late stages of his career. If instead of Mitchell we can get a chance at drafting the next Petracca/Martin/Bontempelli then I would opt for the latter. We have to focus on what we want to be in 3-5 years time now and not worry so much about the next couple of years. The rebuild is on - if we get the chance to get more chances at the top end of the draft without trading our 18-24 year old players then we would be crazy not to do it.

 

[TylerDurden]

How about I donate $100 to the charity of your choice if Tom is traded - if he stays you donate $100 to the charity of my choice?

I cant see him being traded. He's just not rated that highly outside of our 4 walls.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

I cant see him being traded. He's just not rated that highly outside of our 4 walls.

The same could be said about Worp and O'Meara. I wonder why that is.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

How about I donate $100 to the charity of your choice if Tom is traded - if he stays you donate $100 to the charity of my choice?

What’s in it for me?




But seriously, why does this have to be you are right/wrong scenario. You don’t need to be offended by someone saying to “be prepared” for list changes. Just wait and see what eventuates.

 

[Stratton24]

What’s in it for me?




But seriously, why does this have to be you are right/wrong scenario. You don’t need to be offended by someone saying to “be prepared” for list changes. Just wait and see what eventuates.

the feel good of donating to a charity!

 

[Beandip]

the feel good of donating to a charity!

It's a charity of your choosing...

You might choose something like the "Kim Jong Un Charity for Hotdog People in Ill-fitting suits" - that can't feel good for him to donate to...

 

[Mojo]

It's a charity of your choosing...

You might choose something like the "Kim Jong Un Charity for Hotdog People in Ill-fitting suits" - that can't feel good for him to donate to...

I tried donating to that charity years ago. Rubbish customer service so ended up going with Beyond Blue.. it was a toss-of-a-coin decision.

 

[Nugett]

It's a charity of your choosing...

You might choose something like the "Kim Jong Un Charity for Hotdog People in Ill-fitting suits" - that can't feel good for him to donate to...

Where do I donate? That sounds like a worthy charity to support. Forget this Heal the world and save a child rort!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Let’s get back on track, ladies and gents.

 

[bigmaxi]

100% Clarko was staying as well.

Clarko has gone ?

 

[Nugett]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we trade out a couple of people this year. With a couple more next year. We are probably looking at some short term pain for some long term gain.

If Tom is on the trading block, I’m sure we will have our asking price. Wether or not we get our price or we decide that we are better off keeping him is currently unknown. The same with others on the list, that the club may feel may not be apart of our next premiership.

its no different to free agents deciding to move on, they are looking for their needs that suit them best.

The days of clubs being loyal to players and players being loyal to clubs is long gone.

 

[bigmaxi]

What’s in it for me?




But seriously, why does this have to be you are right/wrong scenario. You don’t need to be offended by someone saying to “be prepared” for list changes. Just wait and see what eventuates.

Please keep the mystery, i like the surprises. Mind you i love ready thru all of this and that. Keep typing everyone. Please.

 

[burner1]

The fact that Nash and Jai could go into our midfield and it functioned better (or at least no worse) says a lot about how getting the right complementary mix of players is key.

I reckon we’ll make some trades as need to move away from the Tom, JOM, worpel (and slow wingers + two senior ruck) dynamic and having them on flanks is not productive. But I may be wrong. But reading Sam’s reviews of the senior mids aren’t particularly glowing. If Sam wants to make bold moves it’s now while he has a few years grace on a rebuild.

 

[flinchfree]

I am not suggesting we won't be hurt his loss - it's a gamble for sure. My reference in past posts is that we still got the job done in 2019 without him better than we did in 2020 and 2021 with him. Granted there's personnel changes every year so those comparisons aren't perfect. However, having younger players like Downie, Bramble, Newcombe and some potential midfielders drafted in who are ready for senior footy from day 1 might help to somewhat cover the loss as well as getting games into our younger brigade while still having experienced players like JOM, Wingard, Shiels and even Worpel to lead them around.

I'm certainly not saying that if Carlton are offering pick 6 that I will be driving to Tom's place to help him pack - but if that's the kind of return we get then I will be at peace with the decision overall. We don't have a great deal of trade collateral outside of Mitchell and I dare say injuries would have cruelled any value on Gunston and Sicily and I would prefer to keep both of them as our forward line and back line could use the leadership. I don't want to give up any of our younger players who are showing promise - and Hanrahan and Howe are unlikely to net much in return if they departed. I don't see many other ways to strengthen our draft hand. Based on all of that - if Mitchell goes and we get a decent first rounder as a result then I'm content. I'm content if he stays also.

Agree.

 

[flinchfree]

..........

So which Midfielders are going to be more damaging than Mitchell.............

I'll stick my neck out and risk looking the fool.
I reckon Jai will be far more damaging with 30% fewer disposals than Titch is, providing he has free reign on the ball.
Watching games, when Tom wins first use his kick is more often than not fairly ordinary. His handballs often go to players flat footed and sitting defensive side of the 'circle', and they in turn don't have much time to be overly creative. Some of that is that those other mids are also not electric in first gear to create clear space. One thing is irrefutable. They have very little chemistry as a group.
Tom simply doesn't do a very good of drawing the defender to put a team mate in open and attacking space. Of course not all the time, but mostly. And out of the backline he just hacks it upfield because he can't run quickly enough to give himself room and won't risk getting tackled for loss.

Jai in just the few games at senior level looks a much more effective user in creating advantage. Also more explosive.
I believe he will be an absolute gun. As in star.

Feel free to bring this up in a couple years if what I've said is foolish.
I'm pretty confident.

If Tom doesn't end up elsewhere, I have no idea how the development of Jai will be affected, but either way I reckon he's the future along with some others.

 

[Cyzzametimbres]

I'll stick my neck out and risk looking the fool.
I reckon Jai will be far more damaging with 30% fewer disposals than Titch is, providing he has free reign on the ball.
Watching games, when Tom wins first use his kick is more often than not fairly ordinary. His handballs often go to players flat footed and sitting defensive side of the 'circle', and they in turn don't have much time to be overly creative. Some of that is that those other mids are also not electric in first gear to create clear space. One thing is irrefutable. They have very little chemistry as a group.
Tom simply doesn't do a very good of drawing the defender to put a team mate in open and attacking space. Of course not all the time, but mostly. And out of the backline he just hacks it upfield because he can't run quickly enough to give himself room and won't risk getting tackled for loss.

Jai in just the few games at senior level looks a much more effective user in creating advantage. Also more explosive.
I believe he will be an absolute gun. As in star.

Feel free to bring this up in a couple years if what I've said is foolish.
I'm pretty confident.

If Tom doesn't end up elsewhere, I have no idea how the development of Jai will be affected, but either way I reckon he's the future along with some others.

Jaeger is also similar to Mitchell only he gets it less and often gets tackled trying to fend off. He’d be the one I’d look to move on from himself Mitchell and Worpel. He’s likely got the least amount of years left in him as well.