List Mgmt. Player List Management 2019-20

[RussellEbertHandball]

Here’s the thing though Reh. Look at who will be in what age range by the time we lose those players..

by the time westhoff Gray boak rocky Motlop and ebert are all gone in 2022 and possibly dixon and Hartlett finishing or nearly done..

we will have Jonas clurey lycett Dbj Amon burton wines (if he stays) Houston Bonner McKenzie mayes Ladhams Powell-pepper Marshall atley and Drew all in the 24+ year old category. 14 of those are already first 22 quality players.

with Farrell rozee butters duursma all on 50+ games as early 20 somethings.

I’m very bullish on the reliability and leadership qualities of the next batch coming through in Dbj Houston and co to be consistent senior players.

not too mention the fast tracking of super reliable guys like butters and duursma who will be on 100+ games in the blink of an eye.

At the end of 2022 I would expect 20-25 of our players on today's list to be gone.

Of the 13 in the left hand column, the only one I see sticking around 100% is Lycett, because he has a contract. The way Jonas plays I think he will be finished come October 2022. I hope Dixon is still around, but it's against the odds.

The output of those 12 in the left hand column wont automatically be replaced by those 33 in the middle and right column, straight away. Yes there appears to be a good spread of talent in there but those 33 players might only be 20-25 come October 2022.

That group of 33 is more likely to peak around 2025. I hope I'm wrong and they can peak in 2023 when the old 12 have gone, but history shows its highly unlikely.

 

[RangaInTeal]

I don't think our list is well balanced aged wise. Too many older players and too many Under 21's at the moment.

We need more in that 25-28 year olds who are in our absolute best 22.

If we give Dixon a new contract, Hoff another 1 year contract, Ebo's concussion doesn't get any worse and give him a 1 year contract, give McKenzie a 1 or 2 year deal then at Rd 3 next year we will have 10 x 30 year olds on the list. If we give Watts a 1 year contract that's 11. That is too many in my opinion. That means we have to win a premiership now.

In the Hawthorn 3 peat, their 2015 squad and GF they had the following
(I put 2012-16 premiership squads and GF side info at this post in Making Top 4 building to a flag thread #339 )

2015 Haw 6 x 30+ players and 9 x 27-29 year olds.
GF day 6 x 30+, 6 x 27-29, 8 x 24-26 and 4 x 250-299 games, 4 x 200-249 games 3 x 150-199 games 8 x 100-149 games 3 x 50-99 games 0 less than 50 games

By 2015 the Hawks had players sticking around and adding free agents to their squad to ensure repeated success. 2013 they had 5 x 30+ players and 6 x 27-29 year olds.

Our age demographics next year will be so much older than the Hawks 2015 squad.

We need more players in that 25-28 year bracket to sure up success. Great to have top end young talent, but they have no finals experience.

KT said we are trying to build the best U/23 squad. That's great to win a flag in 2025 but our older champions wont be around then.

Contract dates come from Forzaport's updated contract info in post #2 in this thread

Contracted Players

I know we had a list before, but it'd be good if we kept one updated. If someone has Rucci's article which listed a lot of names, that'd be helpful. Just think it'd be a good resource to point people towards. Need a lot of names, and you have an article to back it up, even better. Have educated...

www.bigfooty.com

View attachment 927869

Of this list, Westhoff, Ebert, Stucliffe, Buzza, Atley, Fredrick I would be happy-ish to help them relocate

 

[Long live PAFC]

Alright, we lose wines at the end of the year and we need that young contested, clearance bull to replace him. Melbourne have too many of the same types. How about we take Brayshaw off their hands?

 

[philthy05]

Brayshaw at his overrated top ten Brownlow finishing best would be a downgrade on wines.

the Brayshaw of now, the one who kicks the ball like he’s got two different sized legs and a broken hip would be a downgrade on a cooked Rockliff.

unless he’s a near freebie our medical team thinks they can reassemble with all his limbs in correct order it would be stupid. Would rather give games to drew or atley and keep the pick it would take to get him.

 

[Turksta84]

What is this fascination with using a high draft pick or trading good players for a big key defender??

I get we need a Tall defender but tell me how many 196cm plus key defenders atm are top 15 picks?

using free agency or late picks to find a Sam collins type would be smarter in my view. You get a ready to go guy and dont need to develop and dont need to over pay or give up possible high end footballers.

only a couple of key def i would trade decent value for, 1 is Sam Taylor from GWS 196cm or Charlie Ballard gold coast 195cm,

cheap tall key defenders, Michael Harltey hawks 198cm, rory thomson gold coast 200cm, sam Durdin NM 198cm and left field for back up Jackson Trengove cant get a game at WB great leadership still loves the club, play him Key def like he always should have

 

[Rendaw]

What is this fascination with using a high draft pick or trading good players for a big key defender??

I get we need a Tall defender but tell me how many 196cm plus key defenders atm are top 15 picks?

using free agency or late picks to find a Sam collins type would be smarter in my view. You get a ready to go guy and dont need to develop and dont need to over pay or give up possible high end footballers.

only a couple of key def i would trade decent value for, 1 is Sam Taylor from GWS 196cm or Charlie Ballard gold coast 195cm,

cheap tall key defenders, Michael Harltey hawks 198cm, rory thomson gold coast 200cm, sam Durdin NM 198cm and left field for back up Jackson Trengove cant get a game at WB great leadership still loves the club, play him Key def like he always should have

IMO we need a good one that is up to scratch in the next 2 years at least and the later picks tend to take awhile if they come on at all.

 

[It Just Is]

What is this fascination with using a high draft pick or trading good players for a big key defender??

I get we need a Tall defender but tell me how many 196cm plus key defenders atm are top 15 picks?

using free agency or late picks to find a Sam collins type would be smarter in my view. You get a ready to go guy and dont need to develop and dont need to over pay or give up possible high end footballers.

only a couple of key def i would trade decent value for, 1 is Sam Taylor from GWS 196cm or Charlie Ballard gold coast 195cm,

cheap tall key defenders, Michael Harltey hawks 198cm, rory thomson gold coast 200cm, sam Durdin NM 198cm and left field for back up Jackson Trengove cant get a game at WB great leadership still loves the club, play him Key def like he always should have

I don’t think adding a boarder line delistee key defender adds anything to our list though.

We’ve got some serious young talent coming through including hopefully 10 year + key forwards and ruckmen. Imagine if we could add a gun Centre Half Back to that group? The highest likelihood of doing that, and that player having an instant impact, is with a top draft pick.

 

[Byron!!!]

Here’s the thing though Reh. Look at who will be in what age range by the time we lose those players..

by the time westhoff Gray boak rocky Motlop and ebert are all gone in 2022 and possibly dixon and Hartlett finishing or nearly done..

we will have Jonas clurey lycett Dbj Amon burton wines (if he stays) Houston Bonner McKenzie mayes Ladhams Powell-pepper Marshall atley and Drew all in the 24+ year old category. 14 of those are already first 22 quality players.

with Farrell rozee butters duursma all on 50+ games as early 20 somethings.

I’m very bullish on the reliability and leadership qualities of the next batch coming through in Dbj Houston and co to be consistent senior players.

not too mention the fast tracking of super reliable guys like butters and duursma who will be on 100+ games in the blink of an eye.

butters already plays like a 200 game player. Would happily have the whole team under 20 years old if they all played like him. Potentially would win 10 flags in a row.


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[MrChow]

I don't think our list is well balanced aged wise. Too many older players and too many Under 21's at the moment.

We need more in that 25-28 year olds who are in our absolute best 22.

If we give Dixon a new contract, Hoff another 1 year contract, Ebo's concussion doesn't get any worse and give him a 1 year contract, give McKenzie a 1 or 2 year deal then at Rd 3 next year we will have 10 x 30 year olds on the list. If we give Watts a 1 year contract that's 11. That is too many in my opinion. That means we have to win a premiership now.

In the Hawthorn 3 peat, their 2015 squad and GF they had the following
(I put 2012-16 premiership squads and GF side info at this post in Making Top 4 building to a flag thread #339 )

2015 Haw 6 x 30+ players and 9 x 27-29 year olds.
GF day 6 x 30+, 6 x 27-29, 8 x 24-26 and 4 x 250-299 games, 4 x 200-249 games 3 x 150-199 games 8 x 100-149 games 3 x 50-99 games 0 less than 50 games

By 2015 the Hawks had players sticking around and adding free agents to their squad to ensure repeated success. 2013 they had 5 x 30+ players and 6 x 27-29 year olds.

Our age demographics next year will be so much older than the Hawks 2015 squad.

We need more players in that 25-28 year bracket to sure up success. Great to have top end young talent, but they have no finals experience.

KT said we are trying to build the best U/23 squad. That's great to win a flag in 2025 but our older champions wont be around then.

Contract dates come from Forzaport's updated contract info in post #2 in this thread

Contracted Players

I know we had a list before, but it'd be good if we kept one updated. If someone has Rucci's article which listed a lot of names, that'd be helpful. Just think it'd be a good resource to point people towards. Need a lot of names, and you have an article to back it up, even better. Have educated...

www.bigfooty.com

View attachment 927869

If we are planning a list of Under 23s to be challenging for flags from 4-10 years (and beyond) from now, we have the right balance, with what we had. If we want to be a 5-12 team forever, then we definitely want to go about trading picks for 25-28 year olds.

Yes, we are top of the ladder this year, and most people would think we are probably a tall key defender, and elite midfielder off the pace to actually win come finals. However, you never know.

Recruiting free agents, which cost us nothing in terms of trade, would be fine to fill our 25-28 year old voids, and to replace our older players when they retire, And yes playing and winning finals, is important to build a winning culture again.

We still, however, must prioritise list decisions (ins/outs) to build the U23 team. This is why recruiting a Zac Williams type as a FREE AGENT, and trading Ollie Wines for a couple of late firsts, would be the right call. Gives us two players (potentially for 10-12 years) and we don't lose anything in the middle. If the club goes and spends a first rounder on an Orazio type, this may help us next year, but will also hampen our club with the current age profile of our list, destining us to be a 5-13 ladder position club forever.

In terms of our club champions, yes it would be great if Boak, Gray, Hartlett, Dixon, got a flag, and maybe we will if those players can stand up in big games (finals). In the past they have mostly failed or been inconsistent as a collective, or got themselves suspended (Jonas). However, we are seeing the emergence of our U23s who may help turn the tide.

 

[RangaInTeal]

Alright, we lose wines at the end of the year and we need that young contested, clearance bull to replace him. Melbourne have too many of the same types. How about we take Brayshaw off their hands?

I reckon Jack Viney could be swept up, I can see the humour in Best mates switching clubs. I’m not saying he is the issue at their club, but there is nothing like shaking things up by cutting a son of a Gun who would be well respected by all in the club and has been from the moment he stepped foot in the door. It would certainly make others look over their shoulder and ensure their standards are at a level expected of a professional footballer.

 

[Tibbs]

I reckon Jack Viney could be swept up, I can see the humour in Best mates switching clubs. I’m not saying he is the issue at their club, but there is nothing like shaking things up by cutting a son of a Gun who would be well respected by all in the club and has been from the moment he stepped foot in the door. It would certainly make others look over their shoulder and ensure their standards are at a level expected of a professional footballer.

Get him in, and Wines would def stay IMO. The two of them would work great in tandem, with Viney having a better outside game. I reckon Viney's output would improve in our system, and getting out of the fatther/son bubble pressure he is constantly in.

 

[Adz2332]

If we are planning a list of Under 23s to be challenging for flags from 4-10 years (and beyond) from now, we have the right balance, with what we had. If we want to be a 5-12 team forever, then we definitely want to go about trading picks for 25-28 year olds.

Yes, we are top of the ladder this year, and most people would think we are probably a tall key defender, and elite midfielder off the pace to actually win come finals. However, you never know.

Recruiting free agents, which cost us nothing in terms of trade, would be fine to fill our 25-28 year old voids, and to replace our older players when they retire, And yes playing and winning finals, is important to build a winning culture again.

We still, however, must prioritise list decisions (ins/outs) to build the U23 team. This is why recruiting a Zac Williams type as a FREE AGENT, and trading Ollie Wines for a couple of late firsts, would be the right call. Gives us two players (potentially for 10-12 years) and we don't lose anything in the middle. If the club goes and spends a first rounder on an Orazio type, this may help us next year, but will also hampen our club with the current age profile of our list, destining us to be a 5-13 ladder position club forever.

In terms of our club champions, yes it would be great if Boak, Gray, Hartlett, Dixon, got a flag, and maybe we will if those players can stand up in big games (finals). In the past they have mostly failed or been inconsistent as a collective, or got themselves suspended (Jonas). However, we are seeing the emergence of our U23s who may help turn the tide.

For the love of god dont go down the top up route.
1 thing we seem to have in place and nail is drafting / recruiting.
As you said a free agent here and there fine but dont go trading out top picks on players yet.
Our under 23s are right up there with the best in any list, in terms of number of them and spread of positions.
We need another few talls developing, with farther sons etc we have a good mix coming through also.

 

[RangaInTeal]

Get him in, and Wines would def stay IMO. The two of them would work great in tandem, with Viney having a better outside game. I reckon Viney's output would improve in our system, and getting out of the fatther/son bubble pressure he is constantly in.

I think he would thrive in the Bro club, Dixon and Chad, Wines... He would be a super handy addition.

Houston would probably take a step backwards unfortunately.

 

[Tibbs]

I think he would thrive in the Bro club, Dixon and Chad, Wines... He would be a super handy addition.

Houston would probably take a step backwards unfortunately.

Yeah but Rocky & Boak dont have many years left

 

[PepeSilvia]

I know he re-signed for a couple more years, but I really want Lukosius. Port, get Lukosius please.

 

[Holden Hillbilly]

I know he re-signed for a couple more years, but I really want Lukosius. Port, get Lukosius please.

Would cost us a top 3 pick and the mob down the road have that.

 

[RangaInTeal]

Yeah but Rocky & Boak dont have many years left

If you think we are slow with Wines, Rock and Boak, at least Boak has the ability to gut run. Viney, Wines and Houston... Yuck!

 

[Tibbs]

If you think we are slow with Wines, Rock and Boak, at least Boak has the ability to gut run. Viney, Wines and Houston... Yuck!

Selective! Try Viney, Wines, Houston, Rozee, Butters... With a dash of Woodcock.

 

[VineValerian]

Would cost us a top 3 pick and the mob down the road have that.

And he is not a quality defender. Loses his opponent too easily and is poor in the body-on-body contests. Mops up quite well as a sweeper, and disposal is generally good (albeit a couple of clangers last night).

And yeah - we don't have the collateral to make the Suns give him up to us.

 

[Established1870]

Why the hell would we want Viney?

 

[Schulzenfest]

Why the hell would we want Viney?

Because he'd clearly be our second best midfielder, and our best midfielder under the age of 32?

 

[Established1870]

Because he'd clearly be our second best midfielder, and our best midfielder under the age of 32?

In the age of never say never I still wouldn't see him leaving Melbourne unless someone offered him stupid money that the Demons can't match. If we had coin and picks to go after players I'd prefer Hately and although he isn't proven like Viney he clearly has the tools to a great midfielder.

 

[RangaInTeal]

Selective! Try Viney, Wines, Houston, Rozee, Butters... With a dash of Woodcock.

Who is Rucking?

 

[Tibbs]

Who is Rucking?

Ladhams & Hayes.

 

[Adz2332]

when are butters, x, rozee and SPP signed till?