Poll: reason for Freos decline in 2023

[Purple Suit]

I think the coaching group must take the blame for this. The team was so disconnected at the beginning, like a team that had played very little together and the new guys appeared to not know their roles or were not confident in playing them. It really was a lost preseason when these connection issues needed to be dealt with.
But full credit to the coaching group and the players and especially the playing group leaders for changing course midseason and correcting an almost fatal start.

We also started with two teams on the new coach bubble and wayward kicking lost both of those games. Sneak 2 wins and the sky is falling crew don’t complain so much.

The whole club has owned our start, but it’s better to be here after losing to bum teams first and beating contenders recently than 6/5 without taking big scalps.

 

[Purple Jesus]

What decline?

Nothing to see here!

 

[deputy]

Get Josh Carr

Josh Carr

Age

43

Ht

179cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.8

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

7.2

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

0.8

3star

back as head Coach , has the mongrel we lacking . Port are a different team with him there now.

 

[BringBackTheAnchor]

Get Josh Carr back as head Coach , has the mongrel we lacking . Port are a different team with him there now.

Looks like Richmond will get there before us.

 

[Freomaniac]

What decline?

Nothing to see here!

Nice novel bro LoL

 

[MadMundy]

Get Josh Carr back as head Coach , has the mongrel we lacking . Port are a different team with him there now.

Not going to happen, the Port Adelaide or Richmond job is his for the taking.

 

[benfica]

For me coaching and being such a young team

 

[Freomaniac]

For me coaching and being such a young team

That excuse can last for so long.

If it's 2026, that is 10 years since the dockers went 0-10, is the youth excuse gonna cut it?

 

[Freomaniac]

For me coaching and being such a young team

..... And Ross Lyon lol

 

[pK75]

..... And Ross Lyon lol

Absolutely, wasted 4 years of a rebuild by going back to the well with top up players trying to bounce back up the ladder instead of committing to the draft. 2016-2019 were wasted years.

 

[Mags98]

That excuse can last for so long.

If it's 2026, that is 10 years since the dockers went 0-10, is the youth excuse gonna cut it?

its not an excuse, look at the list profile, zero relevance in bringing up 2016.

 

[Mags98]

Absolutely, wasted 4 years of a rebuild by going back to the well with top up players trying to bounce back up the ladder instead of committing to the draft. 2016-2019 were wasted years.

if only the club was brave enough to say no to jesse hogan trade and we bring in rozee or king or whoever...

 

[pK75]

if only the club was brave enough to say no to jesse hogan trade and we bring in rozee or king or whoever...

We literally could have had both King and Rozee on our list now, we traded away pick 6 twice that year, if we had held 6 we could have acquired 5 from the Neal trade and picked at 5&6.

 

[summerthebat]

It's never going to be one thing and on analysis across every category of influential team performance, I think we got a little worse in a lot of areas.

Head coach - I think Longmuir got complacent in an expectation of natural growth and struggled to evolve his game plan. He had two shocking stretches of coaching this season, that he didn't really have last year.

Assistant Coaches - More of an intangible from an observer but it would be very hard to argue that we got better in that area.

List management - Decisions were made last year to shed the depth for more cap flexibility in the future, hoping to maintain the overall quality. The lack of depth/role players really hurt us this year.

Player development - I don't think this got 'worse' per say, but the collective didn't really come along as we all might have hoped.

Injuries - We had a really good run last year, this year was a little worse and our depth players really struggled to offset those loses.

The fixture - We had a top six fixture this year on the back of last year's performances.

On-field leadership - This has been a pretty sharp decline, with the playing group being unable arrest large momentum swings.

 

[Lach72]

It's never going to be one thing and on analysis across every category of influential team performance, I think we got a little worse in a lot of areas.

Head coach - I think Longmuir got complacent in an expectation of natural growth and struggled to evolve his game plan. He had two shocking stretches of coaching this season, that he didn't really have last year.

Assistant Coaches - More of an intangible from an observer but it would be very hard to argue that we got better in that area.

List management - Decisions were made last year to shed the depth for more cap flexibility in the future, hoping to maintain the overall quality. The lack of depth/role players really hurt us this year.

Player development - I don't think this got 'worse' per say, but the collective didn't really come along as we all might have hoped.

Injuries - We had a really good run last year, this year was a little worse and our depth players really struggled to offset those loses.

The fixture - We had a top six fixture this year on the back of last year's performances.

On-field leadership - This has been a pretty sharp decline, with the playing group being unable arrest large momentum swings.

Nope. We had a great run of injuries while our season was going down the toilet.

The injuries got worse when it was well and truly flushed

 

[TheLastCall]

Players leaving didn't help.
But non of the above:
Age and experience. We have a young squad, they are still building. How many games were we the bottom 3 for age and experience this year? I expect the answer to be every week.

 

[DocT]

It's never going to be one thing and on analysis across every category of influential team performance, I think we got a little worse in a lot of areas.

Head coach - I think Longmuir got complacent in an expectation of natural growth and struggled to evolve his game plan. He had two shocking stretches of coaching this season, that he didn't really have last year.

Assistant Coaches - More of an intangible from an observer but it would be very hard to argue that we got better in that area.

List management - Decisions were made last year to shed the depth for more cap flexibility in the future, hoping to maintain the overall quality. The lack of depth/role players really hurt us this year.

Player development - I don't think this got 'worse' per say, but the collective didn't really come along as we all might have hoped.

Injuries - We had a really good run last year, this year was a little worse and our depth players really struggled to offset those loses.

The fixture - We had a top six fixture this year on the back of last year's performances.

On-field leadership - This has been a pretty sharp decline, with the playing group being unable arrest large momentum swings.

I think we can be a bit more specific about our 2023 failure.

DRAW: FWIW there was a lot of talk about our tough draw before the season. A minority didn't see it as so tough. Let's look at our home losses:
North
Dogs
Tigers
Blues
Sydney
Lions.
The North loss was inexcusable.
With home advantage we should have started favourites in all games bar Brisbane. If we had wonn 2/4 plus North that gives us 11 wins ATM and we are equal 6th. I'm not making excuses, just saying I don't think the fixtures are our problem in any meaningful way.

INJURY: Likewise overall we have had a better than average injury run.

PLAYER DEVELOPMENT - this begs the question why the players haven't come on.

I think our main problem is coaching/leadership. We've looked much better since finals expectation has gone and with it perhaps 'overthinking', the pressure to execute some grand plan just right.

 

[pK75]

I think we can be a bit more specific about our 2023 failure.

DRAW: FWIW there was a lot of talk about our tough draw before the season. A minority didn't see it as so tough. Let's look at our home losses:
North
Dogs
Tigers
Blues
Sydney
Lions.
The North loss was inexcusable.
With home advantage we should have started favourites in all games bar Brisbane. If we had wonn 2/4 plus North that gives us 11 wins ATM and we are equal 6th. I'm not making excuses, just saying I don't think the fixtures are our problem in any meaningful way.

INJURY: Likewise overall we have had a better than average injury run.

PLAYER DEVELOPMENT - this begs the question why the players haven't come on.

I think our main problem is coaching/leadership. We've looked much better since finals expectation has gone and with it perhaps 'overthinking', the pressure to execute some grand plan just right.

Overall I tend to agree with your points above, injuries I do think have affected us despite the overall health of the team.
NOD was supposed to the Acres replacement and just hasn’t been at the level required all year, we rushed him back and he never regained the form.
Chapman was supposed to be the Logue replacement and he’s been out of the side since round 3.
Tabs and Fyfe were supposedly going to be the big mature bodies in the forward line to attract the big defenders and provide protection for our young keys, while many see it as a positive that Amiss and Treacy have been given the time to develop at the top level, Amiss is looking like he is tired and could use a chop out in the back end of the year.
Plus of course Darcy, although they put him on ice once the season was done, Jackson got absolutely bullied in the ruck in the Tigers and GWS games, still convinced we’d have won the Tigers game at home if Darcy was fit. Highlights how valuable Meek actually was.

 

[Mesc]

Josh Carr

Josh Carr

Age

43

Ht

179cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.8

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

7.2

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

0.8

3star

leaving had a negative effect IMO.

 

[Freomaniac]

Absolutely, wasted 4 years of a rebuild by going back to the well with top up players trying to bounce back up the ladder instead of committing to the draft. 2016-2019 were wasted years.

there were positives and negatives in that 2016-19 rebuild.

I will say this though. very few people on here would tolerate another 2016 type season when we went 0-10 and 4 wins from 22 games.

As tempting as it was just to get 6-8 kids in the 2016 AFL draft, That meant going through the 2017 season with 3-5 wins. I could understand Trading in Players from AFL clubs like Cam McCarthy, Brad Hill and Joel Hamling.

Again, I have very little complaints on the 2017 and 2018 seasons panned out: 8 wins, 14 losses, 14th spot and playing the kids.

 

[GingerDocker]

I don't want to be seen as one of those who embrace mediocrity or someone who is happy to accept poor performance, but bizarrely, I'm really happy with the state of things, probably more so than at the end of last year.

Putting aside the disappointment of this season (and it has been quite disappointing) I am in no doubt that we are on a clearer path to premiership success now, than what we were 12 months ago. Yes, it has been delayed somewhat due to the changing demographics of the squad, but those changes have given me greater confidence about our chances of ultimate success.

I think our midfield is a tick, our forward line is a tick and our backline is close, with a bit of work possibly needed (the jury might be out with that).

I think out biggest off season issues are not playing ones but leadership ones, both on and off field.

Firstly, JL may or may not be the guy to take us to the promised land, but regardless, he needs help. Shoring up support for him, whether that be with match day tactics, game plan, or something else, he needs assistance. If this happens and he struggles next season, we will still have time to make a change and still have plenty of time on our premiership clock to go all the way with a new coach.

Secondly, Moose is not the guy to be captain. Now is the time to hand full responsibility to the Brayshaws, Serongs and Youngs. Pearce is so critical to our success, as a rock in the backline, I want him focusing on nothing else. I'm dying to see these guys imprint their stamp on this team and given full authority to set and drive standards they think are needed.

My only apprehension with this plan is Peter Bell. Obviously he will be integral in getting these things done but as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out regarding him. His off field leadership and deft hand with making critical changes will be crucial. I'd argue if things go pear shaped next year, it's not only JL who will be in the firing line, it'll be Bell as well.

Next season could be the most important this club has ever had.

 

[ignoramus]

Overall I tend to agree with your points above, injuries I do think have affected us despite the overall health of the team.
NOD was supposed to the Acres replacement and just hasn’t been at the level required all year, we rushed him back and he never regained the form.
Chapman was supposed to be the Logue replacement and he’s been out of the side since round 3.
Tabs and Fyfe were supposedly going to be the big mature bodies in the forward line to attract the big defenders and provide protection for our young keys, while many see it as a positive that Amiss and Treacy have been given the time to develop at the top level, Amiss is looking like he is tired and could use a chop out in the back end of the year.
Plus of course Darcy, although they put him on ice once the season was done, Jackson got absolutely bullied in the ruck in the Tigers and GWS games, still convinced we’d have won the Tigers game at home if Darcy was fit. Highlights how valuable Meek actually was.

To add to this is the fact that the official injuries list can't be relied on as an indicator of the health of the list across the season, as evidenced by a number of public comments from the club (and players) about playing through injuries/soreness to build resilience and by the fact that the official injury list suddenly lengthened the moment it looked like we had no realistic chance of making finals.

 

[freo1997]

We should of deliberately bottomed out in 2017/2018, Sack Ross in 18 and I reckon we’d be contending much sooner.

 

[Patty_Moz]

Midfield out (668 games - 29 full seasons of AFL experience):
Mundy, Brodie, Acres, Tucker, Meek

In (143 games):
JOM

Personally I don’t rate JOM that highly as a player. Would have much preferred to keep Meek, Acres, F2 pick and leave Brodie in the middle.

Our midfield is a reflection of where we sit on the ladder, it is a bottom 4 midfield. There is hope - Brayshaw and Serong are still young, the switch of Young, Henry’s late form (if he stays) and some exciting youth coming through MJ, Raz, Stanley but overall it is the major reason for our decline.

 

[Daddoo]

It's a few things:

1. Skill errors at critical times. Poor handballs that slow the momentum of the overlapping player, kicks behind someone or just off target that makes us have to go backwards, kicking the ball over a leading forwards head, OOF in our D50, wtf mistakes where we kick it to the other team for no freaking reason, among others. Not sure why this is the case but we're just not playing up to our potential.

2. The connection between mids and forwards. forwards not leading to space and mids trying to just bomb it i50. When we were humming in the middle of the season pre-bye, we were hitting Amiss on the **** lace out. After the bye, no mas. This is a combo of coaching, gameplan, and execution imo.

3. Lack of a true bull mid (ala Fyfe in his prime) to help win clearances. Serong and Brayshow are incredible players, but JOM doesn't have the big bodied mid impact we need. Seeing what Youngy has done in two games is some evidence for this. I'm really excited by what I'm seeing from him. What blew my mind is how Cox said in an interview that he was eyeing the midfield for awhile and he's been asking questions about midfield play for some time. Young confirmed this in an interview days later. That's interesting as hell to me. He's got the motivation and with a bit more muscle, he'll he a hell of player in the guts. But I digress...

4. Second youngest team in the comp. Success isn't linear. It'll happen but it's just not our year. We've got more on the 22-and-under team than any one else. Eagles have NONE. Our future is bright.

So basically, I think it's a combination of things.