AFL Autopsy Round 11: 16 Point loss to Greater Western Sydney

[Coobk001]

Was pretty darn impressed with you blokes yesterday. I get the feeling Saturdays game is going to be a ripper. Port are 0-9 or 0-10 in the last 9/10 games we've played in that were decided by less than 20 points. And the last win we had in a close game was back in early 2015. So if you guys are on and push us to the end you'll absolutely see some serious nerves from our boys as we've got some big demons to overcome in the tight games.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Myers and Howlett did a lot of heavy body work in tight. Check the replay and I think you will find they were better than what you thought.

Colyer used to play the way that he is playing now..... takes the game on ..does some nice things but makes mistakes. As did Fantasia a year or 2 ago and as McKenna continues to do and McGrath is doing similar with more polish.

I reckon we need Colyer at his best in the team. Which VFL player has similar speed and line breaking ability that could take his place... Jake Long?

Stewart may develop into a Lynch type from Adelaide but is a long way off. He was definitely trying his guts out.

He contested a marking contest with Tomlinson who comprehensively out marked him when Stewart appeared to be in the better position. Stewart argued with the umpire while Tomlinson waltzed away and had a shot that just missed.

Would like to see TBC up forward to replace Stewart. He leads into the right position and is a beautiful mark and kick. We have lots of run on our forward line with the smalls. Luey comes in and TBC and he can share the ruck.

Hooker roams more up the ground. Joey also roams but must not contest the centre bounce, only throw ins up forward.,

Any benefit we are getting from Colyer's pace is being negated by his kicking, missing way too many targets

 

[CBombers17]

I'd gladly take on the problems Hawthorn are facing 10 years from now if it means we get 4 flags along the way.

Problem is they didnt build their list that way to create success. They made an astute play for Burgoyne (Premiership player/Gun) and built the rest through the draft/astute recruiting (Gibson/Hale).

Think more Judd/Carlton with a garbabge bottom 5-7 players that were never going to win a flag and theirs the sell farm package for you.

Hunt Wellman and Barnard type players who you get for a steal that improve the overall best 22 and draft/develop your guns.

You may need only to pay slight overs to these types to lure them across, so paying a shitload for 1 player can screw you there as well.

 

[JayJ20]

Id much rather we persist with the draft, it allows us to manage our finances and doesn't affect our place in future drafts (ie.Hawthorne).

Note, luring in young guns from other teams takes a massive slice of the salary caps away from blokes like Merrett, Fanta, Walla, Daniher, Parish, Langford, Laverde and Francis. Throwing the farm and then some more at Kelly won't win us a premiership

Not even close to a Hawthorn situation. Hawthorn sold the farm for a player that might not ever be more than a role player because of his injuries. Not only that, Hawthorn have hardly any young talent with ageing players. Their off-season performance was one of the worst for a single club in a while.

Kelly can give you 10 years of elite performance. A known quantity over a speculative one every day of the week for me.
For every Heppell or Parish, there are 5 or 6 Melkshams in the first round. Even Melbourne would go for Kelly over Tyson + Salem if they had the choice again.

If you keep 2 first rounders, you only hope that they'll be anywhere close to a Kelly, especially considering that ours will be around 8-12.

Kelly will take up some cap space, but we can pull it off if we manage our finances well.

Those mentioned players would want us to win a premiership wouldn't they? We could front end his contract on a 4 or 5 year deal so that by the time the other players demand a lot of money through performance, we'd have the space to do it. Bulldogs made the play for a young Boyd while having Bont, Macrae etc on their list. While it was a risk, it paid off with Boyd pretty much winning them the premiership. None of the young dogs would want to leave despite Boyd getting a million a year. Kelly is so much better than Boyd. This isn't even a high risk, high reward situation.

Making a play for Kelly is a no-brainer IMO.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

I think it's always high risk offering 6+ year 1.2m a year contracts. I've even heard ridiculous amounts of 1.5 m a year for Kelly. FMD! Rather two free agents at 700-800k each. Things can go wrong quite easily with very long term contracts, injuries, mental health etc.

Then of course if a number of youngsters come good they won't shave off money 'for the good of the team' in order to play in a premiership like Cats and Hawks players did. Instead they'll be thinking well this bloke getting 1.2m plus .... it will act as a natural salary inflator.

 

[Yoda_]

Any benefit we are getting from Colyer's pace is being negated by his kicking, missing way too many targets

Furthermore, that pace is hardly on show each game

 

[CBombers17]

Sydney are gonna win 5 Flags with Franklin and Tippett.

 

[efcboy]

GWS is already seen as a player factory for the rest of the league. Free agency has created unprecedented movement of players. GWS is subject to salary cap restrictions like the other clubs. You either support expansion or you don't and, if you do, you want the new teams to be strong and the competition to be as equal as possible. No reason that because GWS are strong now that will continue to be the case for the foreseeable future.

Agree - and I'd rather have a team like GWS running around instead of what the dockers and bears were when they first started. And it's ridiculous to be complaining given they haven't won anything yet - they're entitled to aim for a flag like the other 17 teams!

 

[Yoda_]

Brilliant effort; didnt give in to the Giants and let them blow us away.

Pros:

- Connor McKenna: will have ups and downs but today was a big step forward. Ball use? Tick. Daring? Tick. The kid gets better with every game.
- Tom Bellchambers: question marks were raised leaving the solid form of Matt Lleunberger in the twos but rewardedwith TBC best game in 4 years. Bullied Shane mumford and got forward to kick goals. Brilliant.
- Michael Hurley: good again without being dominant. Cant say that usually about a 20+ possessiongame from a KD. Camerons work rate gave him an opportunity to impact the game but errant kicking probably evens the points between the two.
- Zac merrett: Back to his best. Kicking was daring, taking the game on and worked well from defence.
- Martin Gleeson: Best game for the club. Took contested marks, used the ball well and generally did what was required despite the match up. Big plus for mine
- Midfield duel: Our midfield almost breaking even with one of the best midfieds ever asembled. A few extra pieces of the chess puzzle could pushus up a notch.

Cons:

- Trav Colyer: Form is really worrying now. His supposed pace is completely lacking and his ability to hit targets in the F50 is virtually non existant. Will only drop if we can get a similar styled player in that role.
- David Myers: to good for VFL an almost player at AFL level. An inside midfied with 1 tackle a game since returning and a guy with 'great' kicking is very underwhelming. What to do?
- James Stewart: another so -so game from Stewart. Players like this are the icing on the cake and at the moment is only jst going. A high work rate could see him stay.
- Brent stanton/Ben Howlett: Both barely sighted. Would think they make way for upgrades like Kely, langford, and even the possibility of Bird having a crack. Non existant today.


A good effort. Learn and move on

 

[srobbo]

lol...who were the blokes on our board a few weeks ago suggesting Melbourne had broken even giving up Kelly for Tyson/Salem???

Care to state your case again???

 

[ant555]

Brilliant effort; didnt give in to the Giants and let them blow us away.

Pros:

- Connor McKenna: will have ups and downs but today was a big step forward. Ball use? Tick. Daring? Tick. The kid gets better with every game.
- Tom Bellchambers: question marks were raised leaving the solid form of Matt Lleunberger in the twos but rewardedwith TBC best game in 4 years. Bullied Shane mumford and got forward to kick goals. Brilliant.
- Michael Hurley: good again without being dominant. Cant say that usually about a 20+ possessiongame from a KD. Camerons work rate gave him an opportunity to impact the game but errant kicking probably evens the points between the two.
- Zac merrett: Back to his best. Kicking was daring, taking the game on and worked well from defence.
- Martin Gleeson: Best game for the club. Took contested marks, used the ball well and generally did what was required despite the match up. Big plus for mine
- Midfield duel: Our midfield almost breaking even with one of the best midfieds ever asembled. A few extra pieces of the chess puzzle could pushus up a notch.

Cons:

- Trav Colyer: Form is really worrying now. His supposed pace is completely lacking and his ability to hit targets in the F50 is virtually non existant. Will only drop if we can get a similar styled player in that role.
- David Myers: to good for VFL an almost player at AFL level. An inside midfied with 1 tackle a game since returning and a guy with 'great' kicking is very underwhelming. What to do?
- James Stewart: another so -so game from Stewart. Players like this are the icing on the cake and at the moment is only jst going. A high work rate could see him stay.
- Brent stanton/Ben Howlett: Both barely sighted. Would think they make way for upgrades like Kely, langford, and even the possibility of Bird having a crack. Non existant today.


A good effort. Learn and move on

Agree with all of this. Was a bloody good effort against a side that has players in its 20 to 30 bracket who would get a game every week at any other club in the comp. They have been able to create something way above the level they should have but it is what it is.

There was plenty to like about the game. They did not roll over. We already know that the likes of Stanton and Howlett are pretty much finished but at least we are not promoting just anyone into the side because they are young.

Myers is the strange one for mine. He is way off the pace. I am happy he is back playing footy and getting games but how long do you carry a bloke with average form when others are being held back because of average form?

Colyer is a bit of a concern as well. Is just too patchy during games and is not the best defender. Rarely uses his speed to chase someone down. In fact i would say Greene chases more than him.

We just need to find a couple of inside midfielders with a similar style to Sloan . They do not have to be as good but we need them to be able to play inside or outside and have the same mental approach to defending and helping their team mates.

 

[ant555]

Agree - and I'd rather have a team like GWS running around instead of what the dockers and bears were when they first started. And it's ridiculous to be complaining given they haven't won anything yet - they're entitled to aim for a flag like the other 17 teams!

True and they will keep facing pressure as clubs offer big dollars to the likes of Kelly and a few others.
I think the AFL went a bit too far in what they allowed but you are correct, you could not go down the old path again and the GC had the same but managed to stuff it up.
They will have their shot over the next 3 or 4 years but they will still have pressure on keeping the list.

 

[Macca18]

Did we win or lose?

Can't tell from all the "I'm really proud" & "I'm really happy" type posts.

Near enough isn't good enough. Especially with 10 of their best players out.

Sums up the club at the moment though.

 

[Lore]

Did we win or lose?

Can't tell from all the "I'm really proud" & "I'm really happy" type posts.

Near enough isn't good enough. Especially with 10 of their best players out.

Sums up the club at the moment though.

Wait wait hang on.

THIS ******* CLUB CAN'T WIN A ******* GAME THATS TWO IN A ROW, s**t EFFORT FROM EVERYONE, ESPECIALLY MERRETT. NEEDS TO MAKE A KILOMETRE GAINED EVERY *IN WEEK. PISS POOR FROM JOBE, 28 TOUCHES AND 7 TACKLES. AND THAT HURLEY CAN'T EVEN TAKE A MARK. ESSINGTON AGAIN!!! CAN'T EVEN BEAT THE PREMIERSHIP FAVOURITES.

That better?

 

[Doss]

Did we win or lose?

Well you're here. So of course we lost.

 

[Macca18]

Wait wait hang on.

THIS ******* CLUB CAN'T WIN A ******* GAME THATS TWO IN A ROW, s**t EFFORT FROM EVERYONE, ESPECIALLY MERRETT. NEEDS TO MAKE A KILOMETRE GAINED EVERY ****IN WEEK. PISS POOR FROM JOBE, 28 TOUCHES AND 7 TACKLES. AND THAT HURLEY CAN'T EVEN TAKE A MARK. ESSINGTON AGAIN!!! CAN'T EVEN BEAT THE PREMIERSHIP FAVOURITES.

That better?

I'm so proud that we lost by 3 goals.

 

[VelvetSledge]

Have a geez at the game highlights on the AFL website or app.

They're essentially all GWS highlights.

A game was decided by less than three goals and they've made a highlights pack entirely dedicated to GWS. Hah.

Just when you thought the AFL machine had done enough with the umpiring standard yesterday! Unbelievable

 

[Doss]

I like this brave new world we live in, where a few people on an internet forum finding some positives is the single biggest reason the team on the field is not winning games.

 

[ant555]

Did we win or lose?

Can't tell from all the "I'm really proud" & "I'm really happy" type posts.

Near enough isn't good enough. Especially with 10 of their best players out.

Sums up the club at the moment though.

Guess we should ask the AFL for the same draft and salary cap concessions that GWS had so we can rectify the problem.

They may have had 8 players out of their best side but they have had top 20 draft picks playing in the NEAFL and to be blunt the have 9 or 10 players not in their best 22 that could get a walk up start in at least 10 other AFL clubs.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Yeah wish we had some of these concessions...some of these may have changed as I posted this in Feb on main board....

Access to 12x best 17yos back in '10
2011 draft - top 9 of 15 (7 of 10)
2012 draft - top 5 of 13 ....thanks to the 2 year mini draft bonanza
The 16 zone picks
The access to 16x free agents (two years in a row!!)
The ridiculous academy points system
The access to the Riverina
The ability to draft Hopper and Kennedy who had sweet FA to do with their academey
The access to draft Jarod Brandner this year who was raised in Wentworth near the SA border.
The access to Powell / Richards / Peach in the next year.

 

[pepsi]

Thanks for that TheGreatBarryB it shows how far the AFL have gone in order for this franchise to succeed. The suns did not get this level of advantage. So when someone mentions how many best 22 players they had out, they don't recognise that the GWS best 30 list is a walk up in most teams best 22. When they win their 2-3 flags it will be the most hollow of premierships in the history of the AFL.

 

[Lore]

All GWS need in order to be legitimised as a club is some personality. So far their personality consists of a bit of Kevin Sheedy leftover from when he was up there, and Mumford being a bit of a brute around the middle. And also that Whitfield affair, which isn't overly positive. They need to get a few rivalries going, Gold Coast and the Dogs seem likely enough, plus a cross-town rivalry with the Swans. Gold Coast seem to be off in lalaland most of the time though and wouldn't know a rivalry if it bit them on the backside.

 

[citizen-erased]

Did we win or lose?

Can't tell from all the "I'm really proud" & "I'm really happy" type posts.

Near enough isn't good enough. Especially with 10 of their best players out.

Sums up the club at the moment though.

I wouldn't say 10 of their best were out
Coniglio, Smith, Lobb & Haynes would be best 22.

Himmelberg - Lobb
Corr - Haynes
Kennedy - Coniglio
De Boer - Smith
possibly:
Lloyd - SJ
Perryman - Deledio

 

[Zach Package]

I ****ing hate games where he lose and don't learn anything, this is not one of those games.

I thought we were fantastic. Overmatched and overwhelmed for sure, but the effort is there and we're developing a system where the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.

 

[Subiaco_Falcons]

Watson was okay, kicking was shithouse, Colyer the same
Considering Myers is suppose to be one of our best kicks, all he does is bang it on the boot 50/60m and not much else
Howlett and Stanton were just the extra numbers on the field, did bugger all

Need to get players in who can actually kick a football, especially if our game plan is taking it on through the corridor