Autopsy Round 2, 2023: Sydney torch Hawthorn

[MrPremiership]

Interestingly though in our 2 games to date we’ve covered the same amount of Km’s as the Swans and we had 1 km less than the Bombers.

What we’re not doing is as many sprints, which is surely mental, as each and every player that jumped onto a podcast over summer rookie of the sprint work Burge had them doing in each session and how that was a change in focus for them.

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SYL - are you able to get a break down of sprints by "when attacking" and "when defending"?

I'd think the players sprint when we have it......and don't when it's time to turn the other way. That's a major worry.

 

[Lickmesocks]

This worries me the most. Was some lazy efforts in the Essendon game as well.

He is who he is. We knew who he was when we appointed him captain and he is not going to change how he moves or plays the game.

He is a laconic type of dude and that was always the question mark on making him skipper.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Interestingly though in our 2 games to date we’ve covered the same amount of Km’s as the Swans and we had 1 km less than the Bombers.

What we’re not doing is as many sprints, which is surely mental, as each and every player that jumped onto a podcast over summer rookie of the sprint work Burge had them doing in each session and how that was a change in focus for them.

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That re: sprints is what my eyes were telling me against the Scum and could also see it at times on the tv. I am not convinced it is mental as I could see the players trying to find something but they had nothing to call on - and this was a number of our most experienced players. That's got to put a question mark on our preseason fitness program...unless these numbers match up with last year's and it is a big area of weakness that hasn't yet come out.

What is genuinely weird is that our 'total sprints' in each games was exactly 83% of the oppositions.

 

[Yardie]

He is who he is. We knew who he was when we appointed him captain and he is not going to change how he moves or plays the game.

He is a laconic type of dude and that was always the question mark on making him skipper.

What would him using few words have to do with lazy efforts?

 

[Lickmesocks]

What would him using few words have to do with lazy efforts?

Haha Probably not a lot but he hasn’t changed the way he plays one little bit from what I have seen. We knew what he was when we chose him as skipper. Has always seemed to have periods during games where he he can look slow, disinterested and lazy and this is just his style.

 

[Brishawk]

It’s a symptom of the way we play. We look to move the ball on a lot quicker than other teams. So our speed in attack is higher that our speed in defence.

The opposite is also true of our opposition, as they move the ball slower they don’t run as quick offensively but have to run faster defensively to keep up.

Not to say our defending hasn’t been terrible but the numbers themselves match up with what would be expected given the oppositions offensive running.

We aren’t moving it quickly in attack either though. We move it much more slowly this year.

 

[H00t]

We aren’t moving it quickly in attack either though. We move it much more slowly this year.

No but we are trying to. Our players are moving a lot faster in offence. Which is forcing the opposition to have to run faster to defend.

Unfortunately most of our running seems to be very ineffective. Given we are moving the ball slowly. But we are running harder in attack than our opposition. We just aren’t getting any value for our running.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

SYL - are you able to get a break down of sprints by "when attacking" and "when defending"?

I'd think the players sprint when we have it......and don't when it's time to turn the other way. That's a major worry.

Not that I know of.

 

[burger09]

We aren’t moving it quickly in attack either though. We move it much more slowly this year.

Is this because opposition teams have worked us out and are praying on our corridor kicks? Which has made our players hesitant to take the game on and make mistakes that often lead to opposition scores?

 

[toomanysquibs]

SYL - are you able to get a break down of sprints by "when attacking" and "when defending"?

I'd think the players sprint when we have it......and don't when it's time to turn the other way. That's a major worry.

That data alone wouldn't really give much insight. There's a definite methodogly used by the Swans to open up free run down one side of the tiny SCG and they have honed it down to an art form.

Once they force a turnover or win a clean clearance it doesn't take much more than two kicks, and they're inside 50 with one on ones or an outnumber.

If you're not awake to countering this, you can easily run hard defensively and still be ineffective because you need to be running to that dangerous space the minute the ball is turned over.

Once our guys had blown themselves up, which was just before half time for memory, Sydney just got better and better at freeing themselves up and getting to those spots.

I'm sure we had a plan to counter it, but the more guys found themselves out of position on transition, they more fatigued they got trying to get into position to defend it.

Becomes a catch 22, and with a super young list who don't have years of games and preseasons in their legs, it's night night at that point.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Is this because opposition teams have worked us out and are praying on our corridor kicks? Which has made our players hesitant to take the game on and make mistakes that often lead to opposition scores?

I would love to see a picture of this : )

If the options aren't there, you can't get the ball back into the corridor though.

On the SCG, the corridor is a lot easier to defend.

 

[Blackhawk42]

I am far more comfortable with where we are at two rounds in, then where we were 2 rounds in 2017. I was dead set against the topping up as we just didn't have the nucleus of players that we had in 2009. I love what we did last draft period and I love the type of list Sam is trying to shape. The media and everyone else can get stuffed, its pretty easy and gutless kicking us now that we are down. Saw more than enough signs yesterday to see what we are trying to achieve. Just need a few key players to come on DGB, Weddle, Rama, etc. Add in another good draft year (mid year draft included) - Harley Reid + and we are climbing back up the mountain, bring it on I say

2017 was probably the least interested I've ever been in Hawthorn week to week. I didn't like the list changes post 2016 and being there live in round one to watch the new side fall apart in the second half against an arrogant (for some reason) Essendon side just killed my enthusiasm.

We'd just come off a three-peat and my Sister and Father had seen their Bulldogs salute the previous September. I realised I was completely fulfilled as a footy fan so I switched off from our results and just just watched footy from a purely neutral perspective the entire season.

I agree with you entirely. Much more enjoyable right now watching us build from scratch, despite the rough start.

 

[MrPremiership]

That data alone wouldn't really give much insight. There's a definite methodogly used by the Swans to open up free run down one side of the tiny SCG and they have honed it down to an art form.

Once they force a turnover or win a clean clearance it doesn't take much more than two kicks, and they're inside 50 with one on ones or an outnumber.

If you're not awake to countering this, you can easily run hard defensively and still be ineffective because you need to be running to that dangerous space the minute the ball is turned over.

Once our guys had blown themselves up, which was just before half time for memory, Sydney just got better and better at freeing themselves up and getting to those spots.

I'm sure we had a plan to counter it, but the more guys found themselves out of position on transition, they more fatigued they got trying to get into position to defend it.

Becomes a catch 22, and with a super young list who don't have years of games and preseasons in their legs, it's night night at that point.

Our defensive running is still measured. The Swans game style doesn't effect our ability to run.

The stats are showing we're running harder in attack than we are in defense. Was the case in the Essendon game also.

Youth is no excuse

 

[MrPremiership]

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Holy hell that paints an ugly picture for the dogs.

Only 15 points for doesn’t look good for us, but it’s also what we’ve been witnessing as we just can’t chain long enough possession chains together

When you load up your forward line with empire state buildings and it doesn't work this is the outcome of that. Referring to the Dogs obviously. Way too top heavy. If their getting beaten in the midfield it compounds it as well. He's either going to look like a genius or out on his arse by years end Bevo IMO.

 

[Yardie]

Haha Probably not a lot but he hasn’t changed the way he plays one little bit from what I have seen. We knew what he was when we chose him as skipper. Has always seemed to have periods during games where he he can look slow, disinterested and lazy and this is just his style.

For me it was the couple of times he kicked into a man on the mark. I can take it in general and understand your point. But should have had more urgency in those situations.

 

[Brishawk]

So regardless of who has the ball, we are always running slower than the swans.

 

[MrPremiership]

So regardless of who has the ball, we are always running slower than the swans.

No matter your talent, or list, work rate and effort are non-negotiables. We seem to only be working one way.

 

[Holy Rioli]

So regardless of who has the ball, we are always running slower than the swans.

so our speed in attack was it because we were chasing them as the cleared our defense?

 

[Brishawk]

so our speed in attack was it because we were chasing them as the cleared our defense?

It’s defined by who has the ball. So our speed in attack is paired with their speed in defence. We run faster with the ball than without it but still slower than Sydney ran while we had the ball. When they had the ball, we also ran slower than them.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Our defensive running is still measured. The Swans game style doesn't effect our ability to run.

The stats are showing we're running harder in attack than we are in defense. Was the case in the Essendon game also.

Youth is no excuse

The ability to run is great, but it's no good if you're not drilled on how to defend on that ground.

That requires IQ and experience, knowing when to break in what direction etc.

But I'd suggest also, part of being young, is learning to understand the importance of two way running and concentrating during peak exhaustion so you can continue it.

AFL history is littered with teams and players who never learned the value of running both ways, or weren't smart enough to get on board with a structure.

 

[Lickmesocks]

For me it was the couple of times he kicked into a man on the mark. I can take it in general and understand your point. But should have had more urgency in those situations.

All good. Fwiw I 100% agree with you and didnt have him as my choice as skipper for the examples you have used.

For me, the dinky kicks off 1 step around corners and at times holding the ball too long before releasing it and putting a teammate under more pressure than he should of been are all little things that frustrate me when watching.

In saying all that when he is jumping into packs and taking great marks and really locked in and beating a bigger opponent like Tom Lynch 1-1 are the things I love about him.

 

[peetoo]

Kayo just had “sounds of” from Parker in last weeks game. There were a couple of thud collisions it certainly wasn’t bruise free in that bit of footage