Autopsy Round 2, 2023: Sydney torch Hawthorn

[Roger Rogerson]

I'm sorry but did you just have a subtle crack at my namestake, the great white hope of mid 1990s Hawks supporters?

Why bring poor old Simon into this mess

He is now a maths teacher and teaches one of my kids.

 

[A Diakos]

nothing is a given

"another 30 games and 2 seasons and we ll be where Sydney is" is not a given

this mentality eg Dylan Moore

13

Dylan Moore

Age

24

Ht

177cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

5.1

2star

HB

6.7

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

presser is overly prevailing atm as if it's automatically going to happen

 

[rei154]

nothing is a given

"another 30 games and 2 seasons and we ll be where Sydney is" is not a given

this mentality eg Dylan Moore presser is overly prevailing atm as if it's automatically going to happen

I think the difference is Dylan has the mindset because he does put in the work (hence the performances). It's about getting everyone on the same page and having the standards set high- I'm not sure they are for everyone currently.

 

[offtherails9]

nothing is a given

"another 30 games and 2 seasons and we ll be where Sydney is" is not a given

this mentality eg Dylan Moore presser is overly prevailing atm as if it's automatically going to happen

This is one thing that kind of concerns me on a psychological level. I love Moorey, but if this is the messaging throughout the group, continually giving them a cop out to underperform, what tone does that set?

It's weird because it's different from the messaging over the summer 'there will be ups and downs, but it is later than we think in our career so we want to win asap'. Not sure whether I'm just overthinking this or not.

 

[cryptor]

This is one thing that kind of concerns me on a psychological level. I love Moorey, but if this is the messaging throughout the group, continually giving them a cop out to underperform, what tone does that set?

It's weird because it's different from the messaging over the summer 'there will be ups and downs, but it is later than we think in our career so we want to win asap'. Not sure whether I'm just overthinking this or not.

The players are smart enough to know they actually need to work hard and that it's not just a matter of waiting around for time to pass and steadily increase their game counts to an arbitrary number.

 

[HedgeFund]

Look at the turnaround at Collingwood once McGuire's protection of Buckley expired with his presidency;

….and they had a robust selection process which appointed the highly credentialled McRae

Sam's appointment didn't seem to have the same quality of selection process around it.

….which then saw McRae successfully take part in the Pies process and then walk straight out of our coaches box because we had already fallen for the idea of appointing a former club champion.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Collingwood were literally wanting to appoint Mitchell as their coach, that's why we moved when we did. McRae was their second choice, so unsure why we are talking up their selection process over ours when we both wanted the same guy...

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Looking back at 2 recent bottom outs and rising up the ladder, Melbourne and a finally rising Carlton.
Both recruited high end draft picks for the midfield for years. Think Scully Trengrove, Murphy etc.
Only when May, Lever types were added, plus lucking in a generational ruck in Gawn for Melb, then Weitering, Curnow, McKay and DeKoning were recruited for Blues, did it start to click into place. KP is key.

So…recreating another midfielder in Harley Reid or the best key position player?

We have a already stacked midfield for the future. Until the Hawks get elite in the talls, success will not come.

Take Reid this year and the best tall with next years top 5 pick.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

This is one thing that kind of concerns me on a psychological level. I love Moorey, but if this is the messaging throughout the group, continually giving them a cop out to underperform, what tone does that set?

It's weird because it's different from the messaging over the summer 'there will be ups and downs, but it is later than we think in our career so we want to win asap'. Not sure whether I'm just overthinking this or not.

You are.

I don’t know Sam personally, but I know enough about him to be completely unconcerned that he’d ever be giving his side a cop out or an opportunity to not be their best.

 

[Mercy Seat]

When it was decided Clarko should go, just appointing a favourite son, to me, wasn't necessarily the way to go - a thorough search of available coaching talent at the time should have been conducted. Carlton seems to have finally got there. Look at the turnaround at Collingwood once McGuire's protection of Buckley expired with his presidency; and we may well have appointed Ayres instead of Clarko - Ayres may have brough us success, but I don't think too many Hawks supporters are against the choice made with the robust selection process. Sam's appointment didn't seem to have the same quality of selection process around it, but happy to be proven wrong on that one.

At the moment, we are in for a long road to being first in line for GF tickets, and the silveware to come with it. We have some very young talent that has very good propects. We are currently lacking in depth of our senior players to steer the games and mentor the young players. I am settling into a few lean years as the young talent develops and we hopefully retain it.

If we a talking about that era, there were posters on this very board lamenting that we didn’t get Terry Wallace after Clarkos first season. In 06 there was massive chatter about throwing the kitchen sink at Leigh Matthews to come back to the club.

Way too early to be judging in any sense.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

….and they had a robust selection process which appointed the highly credentialled McRae

….which then saw McRae successfully take part in the Pies process and then walk straight out of our coaches box because we had already fallen for the idea of appointing a former club champion.

This is a *ed take

 

[mknaven]

Take Reid this year and the best tall with next years top 5 pick.

My fear is that we end up going for a KPF like Caddy, but surely you're right and we go for Harley.

Free agency is my preferred method to get our KPF if a good one is available rather than rely on the draft.

 

[kirbatron]

nothing is a given

"another 30 games and 2 seasons and we ll be where Sydney is" is not a given

this mentality eg Dylan Moore presser is overly prevailing atm as if it's automatically going to happen

this stood out to me as well.. ive heard collingwood mentioned as well in this context. anyway Ive actually looked back at Sydney's drafting from 2016 onwards out of curiosity. they've had a couple of ripper drafts.

edit: you can see the leg up sydney have. they've also nailed a few.

14 & 15 - finish top 2 / top 4 - academy gifts mills & heeney.
2016 - 1st (Florent, hayward)
2017 - 6th (mccartin)
2018 - 6th (blakey, rowbottom, mcierneney) - another gift.
2019 - 15th (Stephens, warner)
2020 - 16th (mcdonald, gulden, campbell) - bang x 3
2021 - 6th (too early)

 

[Oooh Cyril]

This is a really good honest assessment.

Leadership is missing badly.

so im not the only one unimpressed by Impey and Frost. We desperately need another key position forward
Better off to try Kosi in the backline where I think he played as a junior?

 

[ahhhhhh]

Go have a look at our first 4 rounds in 2017 after Clarkson topped up.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

My fear is that we end up going for a KPF like Caddy, but surely you're right and we go for Harley.

Free agency is my preferred method to get our KPF if a good one is available rather than rely on the draft.

If we finish bottom we are taking Reid, unless a ridiculous offer is thrown our way. We'll likely end up with Reid and McCabe, plus some.

 

[HedgeFund]

Collingwood were literally wanting to appoint Mitchell as their coach, that's why we moved when we did. McRae was their second choice, so unsure why we are talking up their selection process over ours when we both wanted the same guy...

When did Collingwood come out and say they wanted to appoint Sam Mitchell?

 

[Judd2Sewell]

We played one of the best teams if not the best team on their home deck, if we take our chances which would normally happen we wont kick 4.13 often then it was a fine game. It's only annoying due to how easily Swans transitioned out of defense if we can limit those transitions we are well on our way.

If we kick somewhat straighter, 9.8, we still lose by 10 goals.

 

[mknaven]

2017 was completely different imo. After going out in straight sets and bringing in Titch / JOM to replace Mitch & Lewis, our squad was asking the question "can we do it again? Or was that it?" all summer.

We caved in mentally early on when we realised that we were done and Gibbo fell off the cliff hard. Kudos to him for pulling the pin when he did.
After we dealt with the realisation we needed to restart, we got better.

 

[HedgeFund]

This is a ******ed take

Sam Mitchell was announced to take over from Clarkson in early July 2021. No one was interviewed by the club.

Craig McRae was appointed senior coach of Collingwood on 31 August 2021 after Buckley stood down on 9 June 2021.

I didn’t make up that chronology .

 

[Lickmesocks]

so im not the only one unimpressed by Impey and Frost. We desperately need another key position forward
Better off to try Kosi in the backline where I think he played as a junior?

Lots of issues.

Our skipper by nature is extremely laconic on the field and although that may be him and who he is, when you are getting pumped it’s hard to be inspired with his body language I reckon.

Newk has been around for about 5 minutes and seems very quiet, but if I was playing footy he would be the one that would lift me with his behaviours and how he prepares and presents his body.

The other one is Dylan Moore, gut runs, puts his head in the hole when needed and looks as tho losing really hurts him with his body language.

Perhaps these two might be fighting it out to take over from Sic in a couple of years.

 

[peetoo]

Bulldogs spine was dreadful that year bar English & Naughton:

A. Keath
Z. Cordy
T. English / S. Martin
A. Naughton
J. Schache

I'd say we could already give those talls a run for their money

Ramsden and Weddle giants who run all day with a fair bit of toe.

Lewis and Blanck for grunt

Whoever emerges from the reeves meek lynch experiment

Add another gun rated and the slots seem filled

 

[Lickmesocks]

If we finish bottom we are taking Reid, unless a ridiculous offer is thrown our way. We'll likely end up with Reid and McCabe, plus some.

We lost Mcevoy, Gunners, Mitchell O’meara Shiels etc etc etc. all would have been on good coin.

I am amazed that we are spending anywhere near the cap. I spose paying huge chunks of Mitchell and O’meara salaries helps us but if you look at our list there must be some very average players getting some very big money.

I hope we can land some more free agents very soon.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Got to take the best tall in the land with pick 1 in the mid season draft. Imagine we had taken Callum Brown and not lett a spot open.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Reckon a few are throwing their toys out way too early. Perhaps driven by nonsense like, inter alia, their co-workers/friends trolling them about Hawthorn’s performance or being spoilt by success and not being equipped to deal with losing. Sounds ridiculous and it is. Trust the club and enjoy the journey.