MRP / Trib. Umpiring, MRO, Tribunal, Rule Changes - 50m penalties for raising arms?

[Killer_Mike]

Funny for them as they laugh all the way to the bank!!

I hope the swans are prepping Harley to take over at some stage I'd be more comfortable with him at the top than Gil - his brother called him out for being tight on the pre game lmao. He's a shocking CEO

Yep.

I think removing betting agencies from sponsoring the AFL would be a good start and then have umpiring and rules committees independent from the game.

 

[Lore]

You attended last night and I'm sure you get to other games. Be fair do you think the booing is excessive or do you think it's ok?

I don't think the booing is the main issue here. As many others have pointed out, by far the most significant thing is grey areas in the rule book and the fact those grey areas seem to move every single week depending on about 30 different factors. Booing free kicks against is a byproduct of that.

I don't think public transparency is the be all and end all in this situation. The rule books are available, if anyone actually cared to know what they said they could try reading them. I mean how often do you hear the crowd shouting "BALLLLL" every time there is a tackle? Most often it is a ball up not, a holding the ball free kick, but the crowd seems to have no concept of prior opportunity, or the interpretation of prior opportunity. Ignorant public is ignorant, but that isn't because the AFL hasn't made it available.

The media is not gagged by the AFL, but I do think it is fairly underfunded. I also think that a lot of journalists talk through their hats, comment on games they haven't seen or have only seen video footage of (and people think big footy is bad in that respect.) There is plenty of discussion in the media about the way the game is umpired, particularly of late around jumper punches and dangerous tackles. If they barred journalists from press conferences because they'd written or spoken about the umpiring of the game there wouldn't be anyone at those press conferences, including journalists employed directly by the AFL.

The main issue is clarity around the rules and interpretations inside clubs and between clubs and umpires, MRP and AFL HQ. I think there is plenty of communication between those groups, but whether information is relayed effectively or in exactly the same way to everyone (think of the children's game "chinese whispers" aka "telephone"), is hard to say. Communication would be a lot easier if grey areas were removed and if interpretations were kept consistent throughout the year. If they need to bring in a new rule, bring it in at a lower level first and iron out the issues there before introducing it at the top level, rather than changing one thing one week and then the players find a loophole the next and then changing something else to stop the loophole the week after that.

 

[Killer_Mike]

I don't think the booing is the main issue here. As many others have pointed out, by far the most significant thing is grey areas in the rule book and the fact those grey areas seem to move every single week depending on about 30 different factors. Booing free kicks against is a byproduct of that.

I don't think public transparency is the be all and end all in this situation. The rule books are available, if anyone actually cared to know what they said they could try reading them. I mean how often do you hear the crowd shouting "BALLLLL" every time there is a tackle? Most often it is a ball up not, a holding the ball free kick, but the crowd seems to have no concept of prior opportunity, or the interpretation of prior opportunity. Ignorant public is ignorant, but that isn't because the AFL hasn't made it available.

The media is not gagged by the AFL, but I do think it is fairly underfunded. I also think that a lot of journalists talk through their hats, comment on games they haven't seen or have only seen video footage of (and people think big footy is bad in that respect.) There is plenty of discussion in the media about the way the game is umpired, particularly of late around jumper punches and dangerous tackles. If they barred journalists from press conferences because they'd written or spoken about the umpiring of the game there wouldn't be anyone at those press conferences, including journalists employed directly by the AFL.

The main issue is clarity around the rules and interpretations inside clubs and between clubs and umpires, MRP and AFL HQ. I think there is plenty of communication between those groups, but whether information is relayed effectively or in exactly the same way to everyone (think of the children's game "chinese whispers" aka "telephone"), is hard to say. Communication would be a lot easier if grey areas were removed and if interpretations were kept consistent throughout the year. If they need to bring in a new rule, bring it in at a lower level first and iron out the issues there before introducing it at the top level, rather than changing one thing one week and then the players find a loophole the next and then changing something else to stop the loophole the week after that.

I agree with most of that but all that does is confirm my point. It's an issue and has been for a long time and nothing is being done about it.

You only have to read match day threads to see that umpiring is the biggest topic in our game. It's embarrassing that nothing is being done about it and for that reason I believe it comes back to money. As I have said before no organisation would allow so much incompetence to continue unless it was improving the balance.

The AFL just needs to fix it and in my opinion for that to happen everything needs to be out in the open.

 

[Lore]

Transparency might be a good catalyst for change, but it is only that, a catalyst.

 

[Whispering_Jack]

I think there is plenty of work being done to improve umpiring and I agree that more probably needs to be done but let's not get hysterical about it. Umpires have copped it for many decades because the game is so open to interpretation and is so grey. It's easily the most difficult game to adjudicate in the world, but that's part of the game's appeal - it's an unpredictable, 360 degree, fast and aggressive game.

The umpiring was a disgrace on Saturday night but I don't think it's as bad, in general terms, across the competition as is being made out. It's just more scrutinised than ever.

 

[Mercurial89]

I think there is plenty of work being done to improve umpiring and I agree that more probably needs to be done but let's not get hysterical about it. Umpires have copped it for many decades because the game is so open to interpretation and is so grey. It's easily the most difficult game to adjudicate in the world, but that's part of the game's appeal - it's an unpredictable, 360 degree, fast and aggressive game.

The umpiring was a disgrace on Saturday night but I don't think it's as bad, in general terms, across the competition as is being made out. It's just more scrutinised than ever.

The game and umpiring are in a pretty good state.

The entire issue this year has been consistency (and im pretty sure its the same every year).

In both MRP and umpiring interpretation has changed mid year.

For MRP they bend with the media hysteria, that's the reason for the unrest. It should be the same all year round, no crackdowns, no emergency meetings because there a 2 incidents in 2 weeks.

The umpiring, they do what they can, the issue isn't the people blowing the whistle, its what they are being coached and pushed to pay or not pay. Because that message changes through the year.
Thrown in the odd howler call by an umpire (perfectly acceptable, it happens ,everyone makes errors) and the masses start growing very restless. From what I can tell not a single game has been won or lost due to umpiring so I think we are ok.

 

[Killer_Mike]

http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/news/2017-08-14/greene


GIANTS forward Toby Greene has been fined by the Match Review Panel and is free to take on the West Coast Eagles at Spotless Stadium on Saturday.

The 23-year-old was reported for rough conduct in Friday night’s win over the Western Bulldogs after his foot made contact with Bulldog Luke Dahlhaus in the third quarter.

 

[Beerfish]

Hahahah

 

[JT_the_Man]

Howlett fined for a good tackle.

Ok.

 

[mike14]

The Greene decision is a good one IMO, the Howlett one is just stupid

 

[Mercurial89]

Howlett fined for a good tackle.

Ok.

Hit his head, consistent with the new rules.

The time to be outraged was 4 weeks ago (not saying your outraged).

Its the way the games going.

New rules are pretty much as follows- pin the arms, player hits head = fined. If player has concussion there will be weeks.

Hopefully we get a couple of good suspensions prior to Grand Final day, maybe a superstar or two so the AFL can see what they have created.

 

[vast]

Howlett is the new Leroy Jetta

 

[vast]

Hit his head, consistent with the new rules.

The time to be outraged was 4 weeks ago (not saying your outraged).

Its the way the games going.

New rules are pretty much as follows- pin the arms, player hits head = fined. If player has concussion there will be weeks.

Hopefully we get a couple of good suspensions prior to Grand Final day, maybe a superstar or two so the AFL can see what they have created.

They already cost Danger a brownlow

 

[Mercurial89]

They already cost Danger a brownlow

Yep and no one really batted and eye. Only Geelong supporters really.

The sooner people realise that they cant be selectively upset when its their player vs another teams for s**t rules/decisions, the game will continue to go this way.
Then we turn around in a season and go, oh s**t we have just lost the top 5 in a Brownlow and a Lance franklin/Dangerfield type for a Grand Final and wonder how it happened.

 

[Stopher]

What 'new rules'??

On SM-G360G using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[jmoo wan]

pragmatically, i'd be happy with Howlett getting a week so we are forced to make a change.
Having said that, it is ridiculous that that was on par with a kick to the face.

 

[Darealrath]

I hope he appeals out of principle. Ridiculous call.

 

[JT_the_Man]

Hit his head, consistent with the new rules.

The time to be outraged was 4 weeks ago (not saying your outraged).

Its the way the games going.

New rules are pretty much as follows- pin the arms, player hits head = fined. If player has concussion there will be weeks.

Hopefully we get a couple of good suspensions prior to Grand Final day, maybe a superstar or two so the AFL can see what they have created.

But isn't every player taught to pin the arms when tackling? How else can you stop them from getting rid of it?

 

[eth-dog]

Yep and no one really batted and eye. Only Geelong supporters really.

The sooner people realise that they cant be selectively upset when its their player vs another teams for s**t rules/decisions, the game will continue to go this way.
Then we turn around in a season and go, oh s**t we have just lost the top 5 in a Brownlow and a Lance franklin/Dangerfield type for a Grand Final and wonder how it happened.

Sorry but that's just plain false

 

[Mercurial89]

But isn't every player taught to pin the arms when tackling? How else can you stop them from getting rid of it?

Yep and we were taught to protect yourself, go the ball first when it is on the ground etc
That has all changed.
Very quickly, the "sling tackle" which was this great scourge on the game became pinning the arms and taking a player to ground. Go back and watch the commentary change around it. Happened around the Waite incident earlier in the year.
The new rule, interpretation what ever you want to call it is now if you pin the arms and the player hits their head and is concussed you will get weeks, if they don't you will still get fined and a free kick will be paid (see Howlett).

Of course this off season we will get a new rule, or the media will put it on the agenda, that you are not allowed to pin the arms, or you must only pin 1 arm, or if you pin you cannot take them to ground. Which will be waved through, all because of this duty they feel to protect the head.

 

[pepsi]

This is ******* ridiculous. He tackled him and his SHOULDER hit the ground first! What the * is this sport turning in to?

 

[Mercurial89]

Sorry but that's just plain false

Which bit do you disagree with?

 

[eth-dog]

Which bit do you disagree with?

The part where nobody outside of Geelong supporters batted an eyelid. Pretty much everyone who was pro suspension that I saw was a Hawthorn supporter and most people had an issue with it

 

[Runk]

Velvet called it in his pre-match. The game is being killed.

The umpires are being given utterly s**t direction.

The MRP are simply brain farting their way to the next brain fart. Seriously, why is Jimmy Bartel on the panel?

The AFL have no idea what to do.

 

[Mercurial89]

The part where nobody outside of Geelong supporters batted an eyelid. Pretty much everyone who was pro suspension that I saw was a Hawthorn supporter and most people had an issue with it

Oh there were plenty of people who were fine with being rubbed out that i saw, a lot of people on here were shocked it happened but didnt really take issue with it.
But i was more talking media in regards to the apathy of it. The footy shows just rolled over and accepted it, no real demands of a challenge. Nothing really.*


* note when i say none it wasnt absolutely no one, but was stark from the media shitstorm that got raised when the punch wasnt being cracked down on.