Should East Brighton play in div 2 this year?

[Mahalo]

You seriously think putting east Brighton down a division will help? You say that they won't have enough numbers to fill 2 sides? What makes it fair to drop them down a division and have the same thing happen? Or are you saying if they drop down a division then they may magically end up having enough numbers to fill 2 senior sides because they have dropped a div? East Brighton are an extraordinary club with a rich history, they've been in this position before and survived, they deserve the chance to fight for survival again, my bet is they will be alright.

I hope that you are right but realistically East Brighton are on their knees and the league should intervene. The SFL should not allow for a club that was already shallow on numbers and, by all reports, not fielding a Colts team remain in the top division if they lose another 31 players and not pickup 1 player.

Fair enough, IF they may have a number of recruits lined up but if they haven't the league should tender their spot in Div. 1 amongst the Top 4 Clubs of Div. 2 last year and the strongest club off and on the field should take East Brighton's position. Extraordinary circumstances call for extraordinary measures. Head Office need to earn their dollars and protect the competition from derision, it will do no one any good if nothing is done and East Brighton are on the end of 50 goal beltings every week because that is where this is heading.

 

[Bounceback]

Several of the Div 1 clubs do have aligned juniors or at least have a feeder club close by but you are correct. While they have plenty of teams, the EB juniors generally finish up at U15 due to the number that attend private schools and play APS sports on the weekend. Even if the clubs were affiliated there is no direct feeder into an U18 or U19 side. So while it would be a positive step it won't solve all the problems.

As you rightly point out the EB juniors are a big organisation and as I understand it the issues stem from conflict over ground and pavilion access. The conflict grew to the point they completely disengaged from each other (mind you plenty of clubs have this problem and manage to get by). I believe it has been repaired somewhat but the gap between the juniors ending and seniors starting is the heart of the problem. The preference of the EB juniors is the VAFA system and as a club they need to find a way of enticing them back to EB after they finish school.

There is that old chestnut. SFNL teams struggle because of private schools. You can't tell me 100% of EB u15s go to Private school, come on. No, issue is if the senior and junior clubs don't get on then players and parents not enticed to transition. We continue to put it in the top hard basket. Why not merge old age juniors with Brighton Beach, Hampton rovers who struggle I believe and build something. Anything better than throwing sponsor money at short term gains. Build something I reckon

 

[Bounceback]

If the league was fair dinkum it would cap the exit transfers at 5-8 players in one year from any one club. For the league to sign off 22 players out of any one club then they are also the cause. Players come in, take the money then go off to another league so this is a league problem as well caused by HO.

 

[batfink]

There is that old chestnut. SFNL teams struggle because of private schools. You can't tell me 100% of EB u15s go to Private school, come on. No, issue is if the senior and junior clubs don't get on then players and parents not enticed to transition. We continue to put it in the top hard basket. Why not merge old age juniors with Brighton Beach, Hampton rovers who struggle I believe and build something. Anything better than throwing sponsor money at short term gains. Build something I reckon

Not 100% but unfortunately for us, the majority do.
Our U/16s won the flag last year, but we cannot field an U/17's this year due to lack of non private school kids left

 

[Tigersman]

If the league was fair dinkum it would cap the exit transfers at 5-8 players in one year from any one club. For the league to sign off 22 players out of any one club then they are also the cause. Players come in, take the money then go off to another league so this is a league problem as well caused by HO.

You can't force players to stay at a club.
These are amateur players that have the right to enjoy their footy wherever they choose to.

 

[batfink]

Let them suffer the same pain in Divvy One that they heaped onto other teams. If they finish bottom then they go back.[/Q

Just wanted to jump on here to state that we have NOT requested to drop down a Div.
We expect to take our medicine when its our turn. When we have our good times we strive to win flags, and when we're at the other end of the ladder, we strive to stay in Div 1.Our history will show that.

 

[Billy the Lid]

There is that old chestnut. SFNL teams struggle because of private schools. You can't tell me 100% of EB u15s go to Private school, come on. No, issue is if the senior and junior clubs don't get on then players and parents not enticed to transition. We continue to put it in the top hard basket. Why not merge old age juniors with Brighton Beach, Hampton rovers who struggle I believe and build something. Anything better than throwing sponsor money at short term gains. Build something I reckon

Never said all, just most. It is entirely the reason that EB juniors cease at U15s because they have a disproportionate number of APS kids. Multiple teams in all age groups become zero by the time the kids get to yr 9 and 10.

Its no hassle for the junior arm – they just concentrate on the age groups they have. But for the senior club it is diabolical. Until the mid 90s they found a way around it as there were sufficient kids from Brighton High, Brighton Tech (remember Tech schools?) etc that played footy but not nowadays.

It’s a big factor but not the only reason they are in the poo. Of course depth (or lack thereof) has been a problem for years plus at EB. The fact they have enticed players primarily on the lure of $ does not help either. Once the money runs out then so do the players.

They are not the only club in the SFNFL to suffer from a lack of junior affiliates and not the only club to entice players primarily on the lure of match payments. However they are the only one I can think of who were top of the heap 2 years ago and have been a consistent premiership contender for the last 5 years who are in real danger of going not recess for the season, let alone playing in Div 2.

 

[Bounceback]

You can't force players to stay at a club.
These are amateur players that have the right to enjoy their footy wherever they choose to.[/QUOTE

Are you quoting the right league? VAFA are amateurs, in our league we pay.

 

[Bounceback]

Never said all, just most. It is entirely the reason that EB juniors cease at U15s because they have a disproportionate number of APS kids. Multiple teams in all age groups become zero by the time the kids get to yr 9 and 10.

Its no hassle for the junior arm – they just concentrate on the age groups they have. But for the senior club it is diabolical. Until the mid 90s they found a way around it as there were sufficient kids from Brighton High, Brighton Tech (remember Tech schools?) etc that played footy but not nowadays.

It’s a big factor but not the only reason they are in the poo. Of course depth (or lack thereof) has been a problem for years plus at EB. The fact they have enticed players primarily on the lure of $ does not help either. Once the money runs out then so do the players.

They are not the only club in the SFNFL to suffer from a lack of junior affiliates and not the only club to entice players primarily on the lure of match payments. However they are the only one I can think of who were top of the heap 2 years ago and have been a consistent premiership contender for the last 5 years who are in real danger of going not recess for the season, let alone playing in Div 2.

End of the day it is such a waste of an valuable alignment with a junior club sitting right on your doorstep. Might as well wear different jumpers as the passion meter for the red and white ceases after 7 years of junior footy. Sad really

 

[Dragan]

Sorry for re-hashing much of what I posted previously on the Div 1 thread but it is unfair to label EB as a team of mercenaries. There are plenty of blokes who have been there through good times and bad. However they have unique challenges as their catchment is almost entirely private school kids. They play APS footy on a Saturday and most them end up in the VAFA. Even when they were winning flags their 2s were weak and despite trying very hard they have not been able to get a Colts up and running or mend the relationship with the EB juniors.

Unless his parents want to drive him to Cheltenham, Mordialloc, Noble Park etc a kid from Dingley has 1 club to choose form. A kid who lives around East Brighton has plenty of clubs and a choice between the SFL and VAFA.

History means nothing these days and it will be a long road back for the Vampires. With no viable junior feeder and huge competition for players from the VAFA and other SFL clubs in the area the only way they can attract players is to open the purse strings. As we know this does not really garner long term loyalty. Whichever way you slice it this is pretty bloody sad,

This raises some interesting points. Is it really the payment of players that is the issue or the fact that so many kids / players want to play VAFA rather than southern etc? Is it the perception of a poor comp or what? Would like comments!

 

[Dragan]

Not 100% but unfortunately for us, the majority do.
Our U/16s won the flag last year, but we cannot field an U/17's this year due to lack of non private school kids left

Sounds like every kid goes to private school!

 

[Billy the Lid]

This raises some interesting points. Is it really the payment of players that is the issue or the fact that so many kids / players want to play VAFA rather than southern etc? Is it the perception of a poor comp or what? Would like comments!

Firstly the VAFA is great comp and anyone in the SFNL who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. The standard in Premier is the best in metro Melbourne – 3 from 3 against the EFL prove this. They also won the metro champs last year with a half strength side. B grade is also really good. So a kid whose only ambition is to test himself in the best comp outside the VFL will likely gravitate to the Premier section of the VAFA. So on that basis the SFL has to improve the standard for a start.

But the VAFA is not perfect and the SFNL have to find a way to better promote their strengths. Travel is a big factor in the VAFA and it can also be hard for suburban clubs to get a foothold in the top grades that are dominated by old boy clubs. And lets face it the SFL can pay players so (if managed properly) this has to be of some advantage.

The SFNL needs to pitch the local rivalries and convenience but for me the biggest issue is the Colts. 10 years in and clubs just drift in and out as they please. The VAFA have 5 or 6 divisions of U19s while the SFNL has one and no consistency from year to year as to which clubs will compete. Make some hard calls - All Div 1 clubs to have Colts within 2 or 3 years or they forfeit their place in Div 1. Same deal with new clubs. Colts within 2 of 3 years or no promotion until you do. And while on the new clubs be a bit discerning about who you let. I’m not talking about Dingley, Keysie and Port Colts I mean start up clubs in the Dandenong area who are drawing from the same very very shallow talent pool as other battling clubs right next door to them.

The problem for East Brighton is once the juniors fall over at U15 level those left wander down the road to Hampton Rovers and Beaumaris and a direct pathway into VAFA ranks.

Sorry for the long-winded answer. I could go as there are no easy answers.

 

[Bounceback]

Firstly the VAFA is great comp and anyone in the SFNL who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. The standard in Premier is the best in metro Melbourne – 3 from 3 against the EFL prove this. They also won the metro champs last year with a half strength side. B grade is also really good. So a kid whose only ambition is to test himself in the best comp outside the VFL will likely gravitate to the Premier section of the VAFA. So on that basis the SFL has to improve the standard for a start.

But the VAFA is not perfect and the SFNL have to find a way to better promote their strengths. Travel is a big factor in the VAFA and it can also be hard for suburban clubs to get a foothold in the top grades that are dominated by old boy clubs. And lets face it the SFL can pay players so (if managed properly) this has to be of some advantage.

The SFNL needs to pitch the local rivalries and convenience but for me the biggest issue is the Colts. 10 years in and clubs just drift in and out as they please. The VAFA have 5 or 6 divisions of U19s while the SFNL has one and no consistency from year to year as to which clubs will compete. Make some hard calls - All Div 1 clubs to have Colts within 2 or 3 years or they forfeit their place in Div 1. Same deal with new clubs. Colts within 2 of 3 years or no promotion until you do. And while on the new clubs be a bit discerning about who you let. I’m not talking about Dingley, Keysie and Port Colts I mean start up clubs in the Dandenong area who are drawing from the same very very shallow talent pool as other battling clubs right next door to them.

The problem for East Brighton is once the juniors fall over at U15 level those left wander down the road to Hampton Rovers and Beaumaris and a direct pathway into VAFA ranks.

Sorry for the long-winded answer. I could go as there are no easy answers.

Very long winded with all the same old chestnuts being thrown up.

Get the committee to suck it up and get back on terms with the junior club before it's too late. Best way to understand the problem is to talk to the problem, I.e the kids. Can't do that when you have your a$& in the air and your head in the sand.

Too many clubs continue to window shop the VAFA and not deal with the issues

 

[Billy the Lid]

Very long winded with all the same old chestnuts being thrown up.

Get the committee to suck it up and get back on terms with the junior club before it's too late. Best way to understand the problem is to talk to the problem, I.e the kids. Can't do that when you have your a$& in the air and your head in the sand.

Too many clubs continue to window shop the VAFA and not deal with the issues

They did this 3 years ago but the issues run a lot deeper that just getting the committee “to suck it up”.

They might be the same old chestnuts to you but until someone actually addresses the issues around the colts and the clubs/leagues absolute lack of commitment to really driving the concept then nothing will change.

Easy to pot other people who have an idea. What’s your plan?

 

[superfreak]

Knowing a little bit about EB's current plight, BTL's post is pretty darn good. Its a unique challenge that the Vamps' face.

However, ultimately EB have been in this position before and have/will find a way to regenerate and come again. A proud club with plenty of good people behind the scenes. They should stay in Div.1 (as they instead on doing) and what will be will be.

Also, to those potting the past president...EB would most likely be defunct if not for his (and a few others) work and $. Anyone willing to put time and money into local sport without getting a cent back should be patted on the back, not s**t-canned. Its easy to sit back on an internet forum and say that they should have done this, and should have done that, but unless you've been in their shoes, your opinion doesn't count for anything.

 

[Bounceback]

Knowing a little bit about EB's current plight, BTL's post is pretty darn good. Its a unique challenge that the Vamps' face.

However, ultimately EB have been in this position before and have/will find a way to regenerate and come again. A proud club with plenty of good people behind the scenes. They should stay in Div.1 (as they instead on doing) and what will be will be.

Also, to those potting the past president...EB would most likely be defunct if not for his (and a few others) work and $. Anyone willing to put time and money into local sport without getting a cent back should be patted on the back, not s**t-canned. Its easy to sit back on an internet forum and say that they should have done this, and should have done that, but unless you've been in their shoes, your opinion doesn't count for anything.

The SFNL godfather has raised his immature head.
My opinion counts more than your flimsy words and I have not potted the president so don't put words in my mouth.

I'm making a point about the club. 1) resolve the crap with juniors 2) next time you are awash with coin, sit back and think about if paying big bucks provides long term stability.

 

[superfreak]

I wasn't speaking about you BB...was referring to a few on page 1, so ease up - no need for the personal shots from behind a keyboard.
Some of the suggestions you made in your posts make sense and I agree.

 

[Langers is Life]

Firstly the VAFA is great comp and anyone in the SFNL who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. The standard in Premier is the best in metro Melbourne – 3 from 3 against the EFL prove this. They also won the metro champs last year with a half strength side. B grade is also really good. So a kid whose only ambition is to test himself in the best comp outside the VFL will likely gravitate to the Premier section of the VAFA. So on that basis the SFL has to improve the standard for a start.

But the VAFA is not perfect and the SFNL have to find a way to better promote their strengths. Travel is a big factor in the VAFA and it can also be hard for suburban clubs to get a foothold in the top grades that are dominated by old boy clubs. And lets face it the SFL can pay players so (if managed properly) this has to be of some advantage.

The SFNL needs to pitch the local rivalries and convenience but for me the biggest issue is the Colts. 10 years in and clubs just drift in and out as they please. The VAFA have 5 or 6 divisions of U19s while the SFNL has one and no consistency from year to year as to which clubs will compete. Make some hard calls - All Div 1 clubs to have Colts within 2 or 3 years or they forfeit their place in Div 1. Same deal with new clubs. Colts within 2 of 3 years or no promotion until you do. And while on the new clubs be a bit discerning about who you let. I’m not talking about Dingley, Keysie and Port Colts I mean start up clubs in the Dandenong area who are drawing from the same very very shallow talent pool as other battling clubs right next door to them.

The problem for East Brighton is once the juniors fall over at U15 level those left wander down the road to Hampton Rovers and Beaumaris and a direct pathway into VAFA ranks.

Sorry for the long-winded answer. I could go as there are no easy answers.

The problem with making clubs have a colts is that it will affect the clubs juniors. I know bentleigh's under 17's will take a few hits if all the whispers I've heard are true. Clubs will ask players to move up an age group and that will crete more problems with 16-17 year olds versing 19 year olds. The rules for 19's need to be lightened as I believe that under 18's can only play 6-8 games a year

 

[Billy the Lid]

The problem with making clubs have a colts is that it will affect the clubs juniors. I know bentleigh's under 17's will take a few hits if all the whispers I've heard are true. Clubs will ask players to move up an age group and that will crete more problems with 16-17 year olds versing 19 year olds. The rules for 19's need to be lightened as I believe that under 18's can only play 6-8 games a year

Can’t agree Langers. The solution is simple - if they are U17 then they play under 17s. If they are too old then they play U19s. The U19 comp allows 19.5s and even a certain number of U20s so I can’t see how or why it would impact on the U17s. While there is an obvious link, Bentleigh juniors and Bentleigh seniors are entirely different clubs. They are even based in different suburbs. The senior arm has no influence in telling the juniors what to do.

Your last sentence makes no sense. U18s can play as many U19 games as they like.

 

[Bleeeeeeeeep]

Interesting and some what sad reading regarding where they find themselves, but not surprising.
Part of the problem (as already stated) starts at the junior level not only feeding the seniors with players but having a better interaction with the junior families and getting there support early on.
You hardly see any of the junior parents there supporting the seniors, maybe a handful but considering there are approx 600 junior players the crowd should be better. This may improve with the new club rooms been built, but cant rely on this solely.
If you can fix the feeder situation it may in turn fix the family support. Unfortunately for the next 2-3 years i cant see the juniors feeding to many players (if any) to the seniors. The juniors need to look beyond the Private school supply and look at BSC and MKSC for more supply.

 

[Mahalo]

The league has been deafeningly silent on this. Now the new coach of EB is quoted on the SFL Website about how they will go about things differently due to the number of players that have left.
I feel for this guy but without 95% of the 1's from last year and a very, very weak 2's list and no Colts, what options does he really have? Mid season and there could be some forfeits which no one wants to see.
Surely one of the other 2nd Div. Finalists from last year would be a better option but unfortunately this will take some bravery from HO to instigate.
It is not too late!!!

 

[peter duncan]

The league has been deafeningly silent on this. Now the new coach of EB is quoted on the SFL Website about how they will go about things differently due to the number of players that have left.
I feel for this guy but without 95% of the 1's from last year and a very, very weak 2's list and no Colts, what options does he really have? Mid season and there could be some forfeits which no one wants to see.
Surely one of the other 2nd Div. Finalists from last year would be a better option but unfortunately this will take some bravery from HO to instigate.
It is not too late!!!

The league has been deafeningly silent on this. Now the new coach of EB is quoted on the SFL Website about how they will go about things differently due to the number of players that have left.
I feel for this guy but without 95% of the 1's from last year and a very, very weak 2's list and no Colts, what options does he really have? Mid season and there could be some forfeits which no one wants to see.
Surely one of the other 2nd Div. Finalists from last year would be a better option but unfortunately this will take some bravery from HO to instigate.
It is not too late!!!

why should it be any different for first div clubs when clubs in other div get no help from the top and strugel getting player each week and money eachweek also

 

[Langers is Life]

why should it be any different for first div clubs when clubs in other div get no help from the top and strugel getting player each week and money eachweek also

The SFNL has a reputation for being a below par-comp, it doesn't look good if your top division has a team that doesn't have a colts or a solid reserves. Personally I think swapping Keysborough with EB would be a great move as they're on the verge of moving up to div 1 and have a colts that are pretty solid. It's a sticky situation either way

 

[BulldogMurray]

The SFNL has a reputation for being a below par-comp, it doesn't look good if your top division has a team that doesn't have a colts or a solid reserves. Personally I think swapping Keysborough with EB would be a great move as they're on the verge of moving up to div 1 and have a colts that are pretty solid. It's a sticky situation either way

Are you sure East Brighton don't have a colts (Under 19s)? They did last year so why wouldn't they this year?

 

[Tigersman]

The SFNL has a reputation for being a below par-comp, it doesn't look good if your top division has a team that doesn't have a colts or a solid reserves. Personally I think swapping Keysborough with EB would be a great move as they're on the verge of moving up to div 1 and have a colts that are pretty solid. It's a sticky situation either way

rumours around that keysie won't be the same force in div 2 this year